SKYHD EPG and Menu

rogue-entity

Sky will be soon launching there new HD system and because HD supports much higher resolutions etc etc, I was wondering if Sky would "spruce" up there Interface. That is, will they change the colour of the S&S Banner, the TV Guide and menu system to make it "glassier", in the same way that Apple designed a completly new and attractive interface for there OS X.

It is purely for cosmetic reasons though, lets just say I like eye-candy, and that it since it will look better on a HD display, why not take advantage of this.

watty

They would need two EPG systems then. But who knows what the UI will be like on the HD box.

Skyuser

Really they should have a different one. I also think the Sky+ one should be a different colour. Or at least the Sky logo on guide should be the dark blue Sky+ logo.

JohnC.

There is a little snippet or two of it in that Powerpoint presentation doing the rounds. Looks like the EPG is the same.
[EDIT]
This is what I'm talking about. It's supposed to be the message a user gets if they have the HD box but don't have the HD subscription. Same "theme" as the ordinary EPG.

1huge1

are the choice of hd channels on sky differnt from those on sky +? as ive sky plus with a hd tv and there isnt much to choose
anyway do you think theres a good chance they will be bringing out more hd channels on sky +? as i really dont want to bother having to get this new sky hd box after just getting sky + in

JohnC.

1huge1 wrote:

are the choice of hd channels on sky differnt from those on sky +? as ive sky plus with a hd tv and there isnt much to choose
anyway do you think theres a good chance they will be bringing out more hd channels on sky +? as i really dont want to bother having to get this new sky hd box after just getting sky + in

You can't get HD channels on a Sky or Sky+ box. The hardware simply isn't capable of HD. If you want HD channels, you will have to get a HD box.

Skyuser

1huge1 wrote:

are the choice of hd channels on sky differnt from those on sky +? as ive sky plus with a hd tv and there isnt much to choose
anyway do you think theres a good chance they will be bringing out more hd channels on sky +? as i really dont want to bother having to get this new sky hd box after just getting sky + in

No the channels are exactly the same as what you see on your sky+ box. Only difference on HD is they can actually view them.

kilasser

What do yea think are the chances of sky plus going free when HD is launched?

byte

It's quite possible indeed. Possibly something they'd do from September to get a rush going for Christmas.

watty

It looks like for Mix packs there are only 3 HD channels. A few Movie and a few sport.

Of course HD was invented for Big TVs, you need a BIG HD TV. 1080i native seems to be recommended. There is no point to a Sky HD box if you don't have a HD TV (dons asbestos cloak and waits for flames).

ixtlan

watty wrote:

It looks like for Mix packs there are only 3 HD channels. A few Movie and a few sport.

Of course HD was invented for Big TVs, you need a BIG HD TV. 1080i native seems to be recommended. There is no point to a Sky HD box if you don't have a HD TV (dons asbestos cloak and waits for flames).

I can't resist... I do agree with the basic suggestion that on pixels alone people with a 32" TV will not be able to tell the difference between SD and HD, assuming the SD is perfect. However if you can tell the difference between the very imperfect Sky and a DVD then you will notice a cleaner/sharper picture with HD.

So a 32" LCD (2" bigger than a 32"CRT") will show benefits. a 37" LCD probably would be noticeably better for HD than even perfect SD.

On the 720/768/1080 debate, Watty you are being a little inconsistent here! If a guy buys a 60" screen he may need 1080. If he buys a 37/40/42" screen then (assuming for the sake of argument that the internal scaling is good) it's unlikely he will be able to tell the difference between 720 lines and 1080 at normal viewing distances. Maybe a little but it will be subtle (as long as the scaler is good - and they are getting better).

So if you keep correctly making the argument about the limits of the human eye and HD being not much better than SD, then the same argument leads to the conclusion that a 1080 panel (while possibly subtly better) will not be much noticeably better than a 720 panel, say at screen sizes 42" and below.

So, if next year 720 panels are significantly cheaper then 1080 ones, I'll be quite uncertain what to do... and will come looking for advice from you guys who will already have HD panels...

Ix.

watty

You don't need to assume the SD is perfect

ixtlan wrote:

However if you can tell the difference between the very imperfect Sky and a DVD then you will notice a cleaner/sharper picture with HD.

Absolutely true if it is a CRT 32" HDTV. Both both could be worse on a 32" LCD /Plasma depending on native resolution. If it is 720p Native then 720 will look best, 576 SD will look poorer than on a CRT and 1080i will look poorer than on native 1080 line.
If it is the common WXGA (16:9 stretched pixel 1024 x 768) then HD 720, HD1080 and SD 720x 576 will be very similar.

By definition any program the SAME on HD and SD will be similar to best DVD quality. This will apply to very few programs/channels initially.

Rescaling seriously hurts the quality and at certian rescalling creates artifacts.

A 32" true HD TV will give a slight increase in visual quality for about 5% to 20% of viewers (depending on viewing distance etc). The other 80% won't be able to tell the difference.

A 32" with "intermediate" native resolution will blur SD quality and blur HDTV or if not bluring it give artifacts on HD TV and/or SDTV. I have see this for myself.

All rescalling is not created equal either, the Nvida 6800 graphics card does rescalling to the 20" LCD HD TV/ Monitor at higher quality (very noticable) than the Display does it on its own. With SD TV input it is poorer image than a 15" CRT TV and staggeringly poorer than a 28" CRT.

watty

ixlan wrote:

On the 720/768/1080 debate, Watty you are being a little inconsistent here! If a guy buys a 60" screen he may need 1080. If he buys a 37/40/42" screen then (assuming for the sake of argument that the internal scaling is good) it's unlikely he will be able to tell the difference between 720 lines and 1080 at normal viewing distances. Maybe a little but it will be subtle (as long as the scaler is good - and they are getting better).

What you say is true only if you can pick the resolution of the progam content.

You can't

The recommended setting for the Sky HD for any display that can resample 1080i or display 1080i natively is 1080i.

The 720p setting is for displays that can only do 720p. (rescale or native).

Most programming is non HD. This is always 576 lines, sometimes 288 lines of picture doubled to 576 lines. The width is various settings from 384, 544 (common) and 704 or 720 in 4:3 format or 16:9 format. this is EIGHT horizontal resolutions.

HD is only 16:9, apparently, any wierd HD 4:3 or 1.66:1 content is window boxed. So horizontal pixels are 1440 or 1920. It appears the Sky HD box wants to either output 1440 (720 progressive lines) OR 1920 (1080 interlaced lines) all the time for a particular display, no matter what the HD content is (1440x 720p or 1920 x 1080i). I may have misunderstood this.

It seems most content will be 1080i. Sky seem to be recommending 1080i if possible, though for fast moving sport, the content shot in 720p, transmitted in 720p, output in 720p and viewed in 720p might be marginally better.

720p is twice ordinary SD and nearly three times a lot of satellite today, 1080p is FIVE times ordinary SD and nearly 10 times some channels today.

If you are using HD at all, then if your display does not do EXACTLY 1440x 720 or EXACTLY 1920 x 1080 there is either a lot of blurring or artifacts from the resampling.

If most material is 1080i then a 720p NATIVE display, even at 32" must blur or create artifacts. You can't break the laws of physics and mathematics.

This is the BIG advantage of a really good CRT (almost the only one left), it can be whatever resolution you want, LCD/PLASMA you HAVE to go for at least the highest resolution the system will be fed, and ideally an higher one to avoid noticeable loss of quality at non-native resolutions.

ixtlan

So Watty,

If you were choosing a 37" LCD TV... you would think it important to get a 1080 panel?

To be honest I really don't know. I used to think 1080 would be better, but after the discussion about the resolution of the human eye, I wondered whether the 720/768 panels might be as good.

However you are saying that the scaling would be a critical factor that would make a difference?

I'm still holding out until next year. All I have to do to dampen my enthusiasm for a flat panel is go to a shop and watch the rows and rows of LCDs/Plasmas fed with an RF cable. It's when they start feeding HD that things will get interesting.


Ix.

watty

I'd really like to actually see any HD TV I buy running 720p and 1080i and DVD and Sky SD.