Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez

the_syco

http://home.eircom.net/content/reuters/worldnews/7674695?view=Eircomnet

Chavez was elected in 1998 on an anti-poverty platform, and has used billions of dollars in oil revenues to finance development programs for the poor as part of his self-styled socialist revolution.[FONT=Verdana,Helvetica,sans-serif] He won a overwhelming victory in a recall referendum in 2004, but his critics at home and in Washington say he is centralising power in an increasingly authoritarian system and cracking down on political opponents.

OK, this guy is seriously pissing off the US, but as of yet they haven't invaded the country yet, and he's still alive, so he must be doing something right. So I'm just wondering: what did he do, and what religon is his country. I use the term "religon", as, if you look towards the Middle East (no, I've no idea where Venezuela is), there is poverty in the oil rich states, yet this guy is using his wealth, and is helping his fellow people.



Another crack-pot secretly hoarding away cash, or is this an "actual" good guy?

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zuma

This thread is pointless as you "dont even know where Venezuela is"....South America....the top of it...Einstein!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuela

Please do some research about the man....who is doing a hell of a lot more for his populatio as a whole and not kissing the as of the richest 5% who the US appear to be listening to these days!!!!

He actually was elected by the majority in a DEMOCRATIC election and actually submitted himself to a reelection when he didnt have to.

Have you seen the documentary about the attempted coup detat backed by the US...made by an Irish film crew????

Please do some research before posting topics in the future!

MrJoeSoap

Good guy imo. There was a huge thread on him and Venezuela not so long ago, with some interesting debates.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=297121&highlight=venezuela

Check out the documentary "Inside the Coup", also known as "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised". Best piece of television I have ever seen.

dahamsta

Anyone know where I'd get a copy of that docu? Love to see it.

Diorraing

Ken Shabby wrote:

Anyone know where I'd get a copy of that docu? Love to see it.

Fidel Castro ordered about 30,000 copies of it. Maybe you could try there, lol.

ISAW

Diorraing wrote:

Fidel Castro ordered about 30,000 copies of it. Maybe you could try there, lol.

http://www.chavezthefilm.com/html/home.htm

the distributer is in Germany

Zombrex

the_syco wrote:

Another crack-pot secretly hoarding away cash, or is this an "actual" good guy?

A good guy crack-pot ... he is trying but a lot of people criticise some of his methods. But he is a millions time better than what they had before so he is a welcome change. And he actually seems to care about improving things, which is a refreshing change.

ISAW

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Good guy imo. There was a huge thread on him and Venezuela not so long ago, with some interesting debates.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=297121&highlight=venezuela

Check out the documentary "Inside the Coup", also known as "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised". Best piece of television I have ever seen.

I was banned from this forum at the time AFAIK
Here is a link I PMed to someone
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com

Pazaz 21

Does anyone know when the elections are starting ?

I was talking to someone today whose girlfriend lives in Venezuela and he said a lot of people are leaving before the elections, as chaos is about to ensue !

Pazaz 21

Chavez takes control of two oilfields, one owned by a french company and one by an italian company after they refused to sign a deal giving the state oil company a majority stake in the oilfields.

Interesting, so if they won't sign i'll just take it, dosen't sound very democratic to me? Reminds me of what the government is trying to do in Zimbabwe, where the government announced that 51% of all foreign mining shareholdings wouhd have to be transferred to the government.

Is this a case of the government/people taking back whats rightfully theirs or is it a question of foreign companies getting shafted while the government gets richer ?

zuma

The Government gets richer or Millionaires becoems Billionaires.

As with Bolivia and a lot of other South American countries a tiny proportion of the country controls the vast majority of its wealth!
Its a socialist movemtn allright....but going totially capitalist is certainly not a good idea!

Sand

TBH, would they love Chavez if he was matey with Bush instead of Castro?

Dirk Gently

I’ve been following the progress of chavez for some time now. As far as I can see he is doing a great job. He is using the oil wealth of the country to fund social programmes such as housing / health care / education. He trades oil with other Latin American countries for resourses from those countries. Cuba send doctors to Venezuela in return for the oil. He also gives low priced oil to poor neighborhoods in the U.S., were the poor communities there can’t afford the high oil prices.
Venezuela has to be one of the most democratic countries on the planet. Since chavez was elected by the people there have been more elections / referendums than any other country. (8 I think, all won by chavez.) different polls put his approval rating at between 60% and 85%, much higher than president Bush.
The reason America don’t like chavez and demonize him so much is because of the threat of a good example. Chavez is showing that a left wing government following a socially responsible programme, i.e. using the wealth of the country to benefit the majority of the people as opposed to the rampant capitalism promoted by the U.S., is actually a good thing and does work.
You really should watch the film made by RTE (the revolution will not be televised).It shows how he was removed from power in a CIA coup and how America were the only country to recognize the new dictator, and it shows how he came back into power after mass protests by the people against the American backed coup. I’m not sure if I’m allowed say this but …..utorrent. If you still can’t find it I can post you a copy of the DVD.
A good website for info and news from Venezuela is http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/
You will find stories on there that don’t appear in the mainstream media. Use your own intelligence to way up the information against the propaganda coming from the U.S.side.

Sorry about the rant, just makes my blood boil when the U.S. talks about democracy when infact they install dictators everywhere and overthrow democratically elected leaders to protect there business interests at the expense of the people of Latin America.

Pazaz 21

I also think that Chavez is doing a pretty good job. The poor are actually being helped and empowered, as is happening all over South America. Of course Bush and Co are going to be worried because if people see this kind of government working, where money isn't kept in a bank somewhere, it's used, where a government won't put up with other countries bleeding it dry of its natural resources, they may be put out of a job!!

I agree that what Chavez is doing for Venezuela is great, he seems to really care about the people and doing what is right. But of course people are going to be wary of him because,

1. We are not used to politicians doing what they promised, wheather in South America or North,

2. We have been so indoctrinated to believe that he has to be bad, he has to be planning some terrible deed and that, of course, the good old US of A knows best !!


I agree with what he is doing, but is it right to demand foreign companies to hand over oilfields, etc ? I mean they did buy them in the first place, didn't they ?

Opinions please sent on a postcard, or just post them here !!!:D

Hobbes

Pazaz 21 wrote:

Chavez takes control of two oilfields, one owned by a french company and one by an italian company after they refused to sign a deal giving the state oil company a majority stake in the oilfields.

Interesting, so if they won't sign i'll just take it, dosen't sound very democratic to me?

What is democratic about it? The country owns the oilfields not other countries companies. If they can't work within the countries rules then they shouldn't be there. Try going back a bit far and look at what oil companies haven't paid taxes or never paid any taxes under the previous regime.

Pazaz 21

Hobbes wrote:

What is democratic about it? The country owns the oilfields not other countries companies. If they can't work within the countries rules then they shouldn't be there. Try going back a bit far and look at what oil companies haven't paid taxes or never paid any taxes under the previous regime.

Does that mean the oil companies have no claim to the oil fields at all, i mean how are they operating on them then, do they pay a percentage to the government or what? and in that case why did the government let them on the oil fields in the first place ? surely the foreign companies had to pay more then just taxes to the government ?

netwhizkid

Hugo Chavez is a good leader all right. The left are making inroads all over South America, Bolivia recently elected their first indigenous president also another Socialist along similar lines to Hugo Chavez.

Capitalism has really damaged itself south of the Mexico border. People in South America see capitalism as dangerous. Things like Water Privatisation for people who at times may not be able to afford enough to eat We are a capitalist nation although we have/had (whichever side of the wall your on) a good mix, yet I don't see Water Privatisation here.

Hugo Chavez seems to be doing great and I watched a piece on CNN about him recently and even poor neighbourhoods in the USA are also benefiting as he is selling Heating Oil at lower costs. (I saw on Fox News about the middle of January a piece about it) There were people on as usual giving out how a terrorist was distorting the free market for heating oil over there Some people may have froze to death with the severe weather over there only for him. The Oil companies shouldn't be griping he gave them an option to transfer and they reneged, They should however be compensated for their loss, after all they did buy into it, there has to be a level playing field regardless of what some extreme leftists would say.

He is doing a good job as far as I can see. Why ever he should be branded evil and dangerous is beyond me but anyway. I think he could do a good job here, (but I'm a good behaviour bond with Earthman and won't elaborate any further)

"Analysis by the US Department of Energy (DoE) - seen by Newsnight - shows that at $50 a barrel Venezuela - not Saudi Arabia - will have the biggest oil reserves in Opec. "

"The DoE report shows that at today's prices Venezuela's oil reserves are bigger than those of the entire Middle East - including Saudi Arabia, the Gulf states, Iran and Iraq."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4871938.stm

The US has spent the last few decades screwing around with politics in the Middle East to maintain a constant and secure source of oil. The current US approach to Venezuela can't be unexpected.

netwhizkid

Deleted User wrote:

"Analysis by the US Department of Energy (DoE) - seen by Newsnight - shows that at $50 a barrel Venezuela - not Saudi Arabia - will have the biggest oil reserves in Opec. "

"The DoE report shows that at today's prices Venezuela's oil reserves are bigger than those of the entire Middle East - including Saudi Arabia, the Gulf states, Iran and Iraq."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4871938.stm

The US has spent the last few decades screwing around with politics in the Middle East to maintain a constant and secure source of oil. The current US approach to Venezuela can't be unexpected.

Interesting Article there illegalheadbutt, It appears things are actually escalating down there as I type! According to a Google News search he is threatening to expel the US ambassador see here, also notice down the page of the Google news search a Euro News link (defunct unfortunately) which indicates that Peru may also be about to follow Chavez's footsteps with another Left-wing leader!

Hobbes

netwhizkid wrote:

Interesting Article there illegalheadbutt, It appears things are actually escalating down there as I type! According to a Google News search he is threatening to expel the US ambassador see here, also notice down the page of the Google news search a Euro News link (defunct unfortunately) which indicates that Peru may also be about to follow Chavez's footsteps with another Left-wing leader!

As I read it the US ambassdor was intentionally provoking people and was warned if he continued to do it then he would be expelled. Not sure how that is, but not telling the government of an event your hosting in advance and then berating the country because it didn't protect you is very stupid thing to do imho.

I would hardly call someone getting fruit and vegtables thrown at them escalating.

Akrasia

netwhizkid wrote:

The Oil companies shouldn't be griping he gave them an option to transfer and they reneged, They should however be compensated for their loss, after all they did buy into it, there has to be a level playing field regardless of what some extreme leftists would say.

I don't know for sure, but what if the Oil Companies got control of the Oil Supply by taking advantage of corruption and negotiated grossely one sided contracts under the Guise of the IMF and WTO? Should corrupt contracts be honoured? (if the contracts were corrupt or unfair)

constitutionus

Pazaz 21 wrote:

Does that mean the oil companies have no claim to the oil fields at all, i mean how are they operating on them then, do they pay a percentage to the government or what? and in that case why did the government let them on the oil fields in the first place ? surely the foreign companies had to pay more then just taxes to the government ?

one word man, corruption. look at the corrib gas field off the mayo cost, the biggest single source of natural gas in western europe., and our government (ireland) gave it away to shell for nothing (as if, i sense a tribunal in the making here, check this out again in 20 years ). the people behind this? ray burke (ex government minister ), who later ended up in jail on corruption charges, and bertie ahern, our current taoiseach. and all this in a country with one of the highest dependancy on importing energy in the entire EU.

corruption and money go hand in hand as as mentioned venzuela was pretty much run by a priviliged clique of big business people not a million miles away from the oligarchys of russia (see the mob ). The US only got pissed at chavez when he started doing mad things like re nationalising state resources to better the lot of his people, engaging in educational programs to let them know their rights and actually paying attention to the democratic will of the people (unlike bush's mates in the middle east). the latter being the worst sin because if they get a stable socialist democracy up and running then it could be an age before the 2% of the country's richest get back in power and the next thing you know the US either wont get any of that oil or will have to pay the going rate:D

Pazaz 21

constitutionus wrote:

one word man, corruption. look at the corrib gas field off the mayo cost, the biggest single source of natural gas in western europe., and our government (ireland) gave it away to shell for nothing (as if, i sense a tribunal in the making here, check this out again in 20 years ). the people behind this? ray burke (ex government minister ), who later ended up in jail on corruption charges, and bertie ahern, our current taoiseach. and all this in a country with one of the highest dependancy on importing energy in the entire EU.

corruption and money go hand in hand as as mentioned venzuela was pretty much run by a priviliged clique of big business people not a million miles away from the oligarchys of russia (see the mob ). The US only got pissed at chavez when he started doing mad things like re nationalising state resources to better the lot of his people, engaging in educational programs to let them know their rights and actually paying attention to the democratic will of the people (unlike bush's mates in the middle east). the latter being the worst sin because if they get a stable socialist democracy up and running then it could be an age before the 2% of the country's richest get back in power and the next thing you know the US either wont get any of that oil or will have to pay the going rate:D

Thanks for the info. I was sure it was corruption that got the foreign companies their oil but was wondering if there was any kind of binding contract/deal made. I think Chavez is right to demand back the oil fields as it was the corrupt politicians and business men that made those deals not the democratic government of the people.