Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

How much to raise/bet and folding KK

  • 19-03-2006 4:40am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭


    all 36nl shorthanded, I have recently joined each table so dont have much in the way of reads or table image.

    Unknown limps on button, Tightish bad player makes it 30 on sb. I call with JJ. Sometimes Ill reraise here, and sometimes fold - this time I called. Button folds.
    The flop is kk5, we both check. Turn 7 we both check. River 5. She checks. There is no way she checks any hand that beats me on the river and she will almost certainly will call a small bet. The pot is about 70 and we both have 500+. If I was to bet 500 she would think I was bluffing, but I doubt she would call.

    This is a full ring hand. Im here because of a 2 superfish, neither of which are in this hand. Utg makes it 30. mp calls. I make it 50 more with KK. Bad player goes all in for 350. His range is probably AA KK QQ JJ TT AK maybe AQ, so im definitely calling that. Utg calls - call or fold? We both have 450.

    I get 56hearts on the button. A few limpers and I limp along. The flop is K J 4 with 2 hearts. Checked to me and I bet 24. Utg calls after a little deliberation, I dont know this guy so not sure what that means. Turn is a 5. We both check. I think a bet here would be better because my pot equity is so much higher now I have a pair that even if he never folds a better hand im only losing a tiny bit of value; which is more than made up for by building the pot to make value betting the river easier/more profitable. Obv I dont want to get chk raised but that hardly ever happens in a unraised pot. River is the best card in the deck for me, another 5. He bets 24.


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Hectorjelly


    Since there are no replies Ill add this hand. Villain is absolutely awfull - he is unbluffable once he puts a chip in the pot. He is also in the habit of making huge bets on the river, with what I think are big hands but im not sure, as I havent called one yet. I havent seen him ever check raise.

    In a hand recently I made it 30 with JT, shortstack all in for 70, he calls. Normally I would reraise to isolate but I had a feeling he would call. The flop is KQx and we check it down, he wins the pot with k5o.

    We both have 1300. I have raised about 5 hands in a row. Utg who has 24$ left limps. I limp behind with T2diamonds. Villain makes it 30 more. Utg folds - I call. You can debate this if you want but with 300bbs and position this is a definite call considering the difference in skill levels. If we had 150 it would be debateable. This is his 1st raise at the table - so I think he has a real hand.

    The flop is 9QK 1diamond. We both check. I am suspicous of this check and I think a set is a definite possibility. Maybe not though. Turn is a low diamond. He bets 24, I call. The river is a 9 of diamonds. He bets 120 into the pot of about 100. We both have 1k left. I dont think I can fold this against this player, as he could well have a number of hands that I beat that he would be value betting, so the question is to call or raise. Normally here I would raise and fold to a reraise, but I think he is capable of 3 betting a hand like A9 or TJ, and Id prefer not to be put to that decision. However I also know he will call my raise with any pair.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,254 ✭✭✭fuzzbox


    1. Why do you think she will call here? Seems strange to raise in the SB and then check 3 streets, only to finally call some sort of bet. Anyway - I still bet, probably 70 seems good. I guess you are looking for a call from TT-.

    2. I fold if UTG is any good.

    3. Make it 100.

    4. If you raise, then you have to call a 3-bet if you think he will push with A9 or TJ. I am v. suspicious about the flop check. I might just call here, or maybe minraise.
    However, calling is the easiest option.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 268 ✭✭FastMachine


    Hand 1 - I'd bet $50.

    Hand 2 - This would be fairly dependant on the villain. Raising to 5xxBB utg and then calling an allin after you've just reraised is showing alot of strength. I've folded KK in similar situations before and saved myself some money. I've also called before after this much action when faced with two donkeys and my KK was good. So it's player dependant, against an unknown, I'd say it's 50/50 whether to call. If I had a suspicion that he was in any way donkish though, I'd probably call.

    Hand 3 - I'd bet about 3/4 pot here, $75. If he's called the flop with a K he's going to have to call a bet on the river after your check on the turn, especially if he's lead out for $24. He might even call with th J.

    Hand 4 - Does he have AA, lol. I'd say you're ahead here at least 8 times out of 10. As you say though he's so bad he could naively reraise you with a worse hand and push you off. I'd just call here.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,600 ✭✭✭roryc


    Hand 1 - I'd throw out a pot bet, 70, but as fuzzbox is saying, your really only getting a call from 88 - 1010.

    Hand 2 - I would push here, depending on how you rate UTG. I reckon he's the player to be worried about. As you say the bad player's range is pretty broad. It would take a lot for me to fold here though, and there's not much difference between a call and a push, if you only have an extra 100 behind. I would fancy my chances in a three way pot for 1300 holding KK vs bad player, as his range is so broad, but it all depends on how you rate UTG.

    Hand 3 - I would also make it 100 here, as I think he has Kx or AJ. I do agree with you that you should have bet the turn. It would have given you more info for a river bet. I don't think he will call any more than 75 on top

    Hand 4 - I would flat call here. Although it is possible and perhaps likely that you are ahead, given that you feel he would raise you holding 10J or A9, it will be an expensive mistake if you are incorrect. If you min raise him to 240, and he re-raises you to 720... all of a sudden he has put a tough decision on you that could have been avoided. Although I do think you are ahead, the pot isin't all that big, but if you do decide to go with raising and he goes over the top, suddenly you are stuck with committing over half your stack on a hand that you aren't all that comfortable with.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Hectorjelly


    I dont know what type of games you guys play in but in Hand 1, where the board was KK55 - this is treated as the nuts (provided there was no action up to that point) by Ax. She will call expecting to win the odd time, chop most of the time, and be beaten the very odd time. No one else would check JJ three times there though.

    Hand 2 Utg actually folded and I called, but I had pretty much decided to fold should he call, I thought it was an interesting spot

    Hand 3 This is the type of hand I dream about. If he has any sense he has to put me on a missed draw, I made it 75 and he called instantly. I think I could of made it a lot more.

    Hand 4 I made it 300 more and he folded.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,254 ✭✭✭fuzzbox


    Didnt notice the double paired board in hand 1.

    Bet the pot so.
    Ax should fold though.


Advertisement