Battle of blinds 97s

fuzzbox · 13-03-2006 2:23pm #1

3/6 6-max
Villain has 400, hero covers
Villain has been raising liberally from the SB. Dont remember much else about him.

Preflop
Folded to villain who makes it 18 to go from the SB, hero calls with 7d 9d in the BB.

Flop (36)
8s7c2d
Villain bets 35, hero calls

Turn
4d
Villain checks, hero bets 75, villain makes it 300 to go ... and hero?

delanec8 · 13-03-2006 2:47pm

In this spot the only type of hand you are ahead of is a higher flush draw, unless he is capable of making an outright bluff. He has to put you on a pretty strong hand by the way you have played the hand.

I would fold in this spot. If both the villian and you had deeper stacks i might call and re-evaluate on the river but you have no implied odds and the way the hand played out too many hands, which he feasibly could have (without having notes on the player) are ahead of you to justify a call or push imo.

fuzzbox · 13-03-2006 3:33pm

delanec8 wrote:

In this spot the only type of hand you are ahead of is a higher flush draw, unless he is capable of making an outright bluff. He has to put you on a pretty strong hand by the way you have played the hand.

I would fold in this spot. If both the villian and you had deeper stacks i might call and re-evaluate on the river but you have no implied odds and the way the hand played out too many hands, which he feasibly could have (without having notes on the player) are ahead of you to justify a call or push imo.

So what do you think he has then?

handsfree · 13-03-2006 3:44pm

you obviously called the flop thinking you had the best hand, logically the 4 d shouldn't have helped him. so if you were initially right your still ahead. you say he'd been raiseing alot from the SB so he could easily have Q 8 or some rags like that.

though i have a feelin that he could be open ended. he seems very eager that the pot ends now where as if he had a made hand or set he'd be sucking you for more.

its a big call but i'd make it.

cardshark202 · 13-03-2006 3:52pm

Maybe villian had an overpair, checked the turn cos he was worried about a straight, then decided he wasn't going to fold it anyway so he just tanked it. Although something like AKd, AQd is possible given this move on the turn. He cbets the flop, picks up a nice draw and decides a check-raise gives him more FE, as well as the fact that he doesnt believe you are that strong.

Overcards and a flush draw are sticking out for me here I call.

EDIT: Oops didnt realise he was raising liberally from the SB. Has villian been as aggressive postflop as he has been preflop? If so, I call. I think he's more likely to have a big draw here rather than a made hand so thats why I'd call.

FullOf..IT · 13-03-2006 3:56pm

essentially he can have any 2 cards. I think that hes hit a huge draw on the turn and would like to take it down now. A6d mayb

Iago · 13-03-2006 4:01pm

56 for the straight, could be 2 diamonds but unlikely.

I figure he knows that you've been watching him raise all night and that you'll believe that he's holding a worse hand than you have. He's hoping you've hit enough that you can finally stick it to him and you'll call.

I think I fold here, not only because I think he has the straight, but if even if I'm wrong there's still a lot of hands I'm behind.

delanec8 · 13-03-2006 4:05pm

"So what do you think he has then?"

I wouldnt rule out 8 4 or a set of fours if he has raised almost all the time in the small blind. If he had a higher flush draw or an open ender i think he leads out on the turn. This looks like he has made two pair or a set and with your bet of 75 he feels there is enough in the pot to take it down there and he is confident he is ahead in the hand. By checking the turn in this spot the villian can expect a bet from you a large percentage of the time and is a play i would often make if i had an over aggressive image at a table. Its looks like he has taken one stab at the pot and has now given up on it. Your bet of 75 doesnt show much weakness so if he had nothing and was determined to win the pot i think he would have led out with a large bet.

AmarilloFats · 13-03-2006 4:13pm

I play it like this, and fold tho his turn chk raise..
Was this on tribeca??
Hard to put him on a hand with no read, 56, Ad8d, 44... 72o..
I vote for JJ..

fuzzbox · 13-03-2006 4:23pm

Results:
Well - a difference of opinion.

I have to put 277 in to win (36preflop + 60flop + 75 my bet + 352his remaining stack) = 523. So Im getting close to 2:1 odds.
Thats the first part.

The 2nd part is that his line is often used when he would like me to fold a one-pair type hand - but the stacks are kinda arkward to just open push (it looks weird if he puts 300 into a 100 pot), or if he doesnt mind a free card but when I bet, he believes he can push me off.

I think this is not often twopair or better (lets face it the 4 looks like a blank, so why check/raise if he has a strong hand?). So its an overpair, or a draw more often than anything else (in my experience).

Since I've got 15 outs Vs an overpair - I'm getting the right odds to call, and since Im a fairly big favourite Vs most draws, and if he does have a better hand, then I have outs - I call.

Villain had QdTd, and did not improve. Victory for me.

Fun hand.

fixer · 13-03-2006 4:27pm

[posted while fuzz was posting the actual results above]

scenario a) he made his straight (or possible 2 pair) and checked to make sure he got a bet out of you, then raised the tank in case you hit a flush draw.

scenario b) he has FA/any 2, but suspects you probably aren't so strong here so you should die to the apparent strength of a check-raise.

Hectorjelly · 13-03-2006 6:23pm

would checking the turn of been better?

fuzzbox · 13-03-2006 6:35pm

Hectorjelly wrote:

would checking the turn of been better?

I considered it, but figured I had the best hand most often when he checks like that. Plus - I have a big hand.

I figure he folds more than not, and have a hand good enough to call a check/raise, so he cant blow me off my draw. So bet seems good.

I would often check here with no pair, but a good draw.

breadmonkey · 13-03-2006 7:26pm

Why do you just call the flop? How does this gain any info?

Hectorjelly · 13-03-2006 7:42pm

breadmonkey wrote:

Why do you just call the flop? How does this gain any info?

never raise for info

AmarilloFats · 13-03-2006 7:48pm

fuzzbox wrote:

I considered it, but figured I had the best hand most often when he checks like that. Plus - I have a big hand.

I figure he folds more than not, and have a hand good enough to call a check/raise, so he cant blow me off my draw. So bet seems good.

I would often check here with no pair, but a good draw.

I think in the heat of battle I would tend to bet with nothing...BUT now that you've picked up a draw on the turn I would check behind him.....
How is that line???

breadmonkey · 13-03-2006 7:49pm

OK, so we call. Now what? Are we calling hoping he bet into us hoping we hadn't hit and then try and put him down with a bet on the turn ?

Hectorjelly · 13-03-2006 8:00pm

breadmonkey wrote:

OK, so we call. Now what? Are we calling hoping he bet into us hoping we hadn't hit and then try and put him down with a bet on the turn ?

we play poker, all raising the flop does is get him to fold hands we are ahead of or give him the chance to put us all in wether he has a hand or not

fuzzbox · 13-03-2006 8:39pm

AmarilloFats wrote:

I think in the heat of battle I would tend to bet with nothing...BUT now that you've picked up a draw on the turn I would check behind him.....
How is that line???

What do I gain by checking?

Remembering that I have a pair here.

Hectorjelly · 13-03-2006 9:21pm

fuzzbox wrote:

What do I gain by checking?

Remembering that I have a pair here.

keep the pot small with one pair, not let an overpair push us off the hand and induce a bluff on the river

fuzzbox · 13-03-2006 9:28pm

Reasons to bet:
I think I have the best hand
I dont know if he will bluff the river
He might hit and bet the river, and I might call with the worst hand
My hand can stand a raise.

Both are reasonable. I figured that I had the best hand, so I bet.

Hectorjelly · 13-03-2006 9:38pm

fuzzbox wrote:

My hand can stand a raise.

Can it? If he has an overpair he is around 70% to win so to call a pot reraise is EV neutral, but I wouldnt be happy doing it. If he does have an overpair then he will definitely pay you off if you hit 2 pair, and probably pay you off if you hit a flush. If he is behind he doesnt have many outs.

I think its close and would do both depending on different factors, if I thought there was a good chance he would check raise all in with no pair i would definitely bet though.

fuzzbox · 13-03-2006 11:00pm

Hectorjelly wrote:

Can it? If he has an overpair he is around 70% to win so to call a pot reraise is EV neutral, but I wouldnt be happy doing it. If he does have an overpair then he will definitely pay you off if you hit 2 pair, and probably pay you off if you hit a flush. If he is behind he doesnt have many outs.

I think its close and would do both depending on different factors, if I thought there was a good chance he would check raise all in with no pair i would definitely bet though.

True, I'd much prefer if he didnt have this overpair, and didnt check/raise me with it.

However - he might also have a live draw, and either hit and value bet the river, or miss and not bluff.

I agree that both options are reasonable, and I did consider checking.

Battle of blinds 97s

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