Car decision - BMW 316 or VW Passat?

Scubadevils

About to change my company car in the next few weeks and having trouble deciding between two choices. I could get a BMW 316 SE which I only discovered the other day is actually only 1.6 engine whereas previous models were always 1.8. The other option is the VW Passat Sportsline model which is a big feck off 2 litre with 200bhp and buckets of extras. They both work out roughly the same money.

I love both cars (although the new BMW took a while to grow on me) but the Passat would seem the wiser choice in terms of engine size and extras. On the other hand I have driven a 316 now for 2 years and I wonder would I notice a difference in handling etc? Really cant make up my mind on this, any thoughts please?

fletch

Probably need to post what type of use is the car going to get.....do you enjoy drivin etc? Before people can comment
If it were me, I'd go for the Passat....personally I'd rather have all that power and all those extras rather than paying for the BMW badge.
I would never buy a BMW unless it had the engine to go with it...and the 316 is just a pretender I think

Hal1

Go with the passat, the new one in particular looks great has got big reviews on it too. Very nice looking car, I would definately consider it.

Scubadevils

Yeah, its usage would help alright! I do a lot of driving all over Ireland, on the road about 3-4 days a week. The BMW would really be a badge choice alright but are they not considered a lot better for the whole driving experience? I love driving and love cars, always have done. Reading some reviews on the internet make reference to the Passat as being a sensible cautious car...the BMW still gets the old "drivers car"reviews and top marks for handling etc.

...just to add to the choice problem, if I can convince work to let me go for the 318 which should I pick???

unkel

Felixdhc wrote:

I could get a BMW 316 SE which I only discovered the other day is actually only 1.6 engine

Who told you that? There is no such thing. The last BMW 3-series 1.6 liter was nearly 10 years ago. The smallest petrol engine in the current 3-series is a 2.0 liter

But I admit, I am annoyed and confused too by the silly model references from BMW in recent history :rolleyes:

faigs

unkel wrote:

Who told you that? There is no such thing. The last BMW 3-series 1.6 liter was nearly 10 years ago. The smallest petrol engine in the current 3-series is a 2.0 liter

They have just brought out a new low end model 316i to make it more affordable and a competitor in the rep market. It retails at around €34k and I think it might be a 1.6 litre. I read about it in the Times motor supplement last week.

Scubadevils

unkel wrote:

Who told you that? There is no such thing. The last BMW 3-series 1.6 liter was nearly 10 years ago. The smallest petrol engine in the current 3-series is a 2.0 liter

But I admit, I am annoyed and confused too by the silly model references from BMW in recent history :rolleyes:

I was in Joe Duffy motors the other day and they said the new 316 is a 1.6 engine. They are not on the road yet, due out in the next few weeks - seemingly they have huge demand for them too.

Seth Brundle

Felixdhc wrote:

I was in Joe Duffy motors the other day and they said the new 316 is a 1.6 engine. They are not on the road yet, due out in the next few weeks - seemingly they have huge demand for them too.

With most newer BMWs being company cars (Im assuming), BIK will force many to go for a lower end car.

Hagar

I don't think that you will be able to use the full power potential of either car legally on Irish roads so that to me evens out the playing field a little. I've had both as company cars in the past and there is no contest. Take the BMW. Yes, it's a badge but change the badge on a Passat and you have a Skoda.

Saruman

Not sure if its still the same with the new ones... but a 316 with a small 1.6 ltr engine still has to carry the weight of the 316 so fuel economy is going to be horrible!! If you do not mind filling the tank every 200 miles then go for it..

Seth Brundle

The 316i engine is the same one used in the 116i.
It gives out 115bhp/85Nm.
bmw.ie does not give the tech specs for the 316i so i can't see what the fuel consumption is apart from impressive(!) - I guess it will be there soon.

I note from bmw.ie that the 316i will not be available in the UK. I presume this is thanks to VRT !

Lex Luthor

New Passat for me....I'm told the Sportsline is a bit too stiff for Irish roads.
My choice would be the 2.0TDi Highline 170bhp with the 6speed gear box.

bazz26

As already mentioned the 316i uses the same 1.6 engine found in the 1 Series. It is only going on sale in certain countries such as Ireland where motorists are screwed by high motor taxation and running costs.

Personally I would rather get a generously equipped Passat with a decent engine than an entry level under powered BMW 3 Series just for the sake of the badge.

unkel

faigs wrote:

They have just brought out a new low end model 316i to make it more affordable and a competitor in the rep market. It retails at around €34k and I think it might be a 1.6 litre

I stand corrected so. Unfortunately BMW are back to their old tricks attracting badge aficionados (snobs) with underpowered cars

kbannon wrote:

I note from bmw.ie that the 316i will not be available in the UK

Why does that not surprise me?

bmw.ie wrote:

BMW Ireland is responding to the many requests for an entry-level BMW 3 Series with a 1.6-litre engine with the immediate introduction of a BMW 316i Saloon. The new model remains faithful to its original concept - a premium quality family car with unmatched driver appeal. The BMW 316i Saloon is sporty and fuel-efficient and offers the best value-for-money. It is the most technologically advanced car in its segment and will appeal to existing BMW fans and attract new customers.

BMW are using their flexible production technology to make this engine variant available specifically for the Irish market *. The decision to launch this car is based on the significant savings a customer can avail of due to the smaller engine capacity. The BMW 316i is priced at €36,300, which represents a saving of €2,350 compared to the BMW 318i. All of the saving is passed on to the customer

Only 2 grand less? Mad not to go for the 2.0l 318 unless you are the aforementioned snob

Felixdhc wrote:

I do a lot of driving all over Ireland, on the road about 3-4 days a week

Well, with only 115BHP, the 316i is underpowered. How important is power to you? How important are gizmos to you and how do the two cars compare? I presume the BMW is going to cost you more in BIK, so take that into account also. Take both for an extended test drive and with the BMW overtake some slow vehicles on national roads. This is where being underpowered is most obvious

Felixdhc wrote:

if I can convince work to let me go for the 318 which should I pick???

You might very well be able to convince work to go €2k more on top of a €36k car. If you can, I'd get the 318 if I were you

optiplexgx270

A BMW with less than 6 pots is a useless shell. Has lots of potential but is let down by the void under the hood. Personally i find that anyone that knows a bit about cars disregards the sub *23 models in the BMW range bar the 1 series.

I'd go for the decent spec'd VW over the BMW for the above reason and also more importantly the VW is a great car. Bottom line if your getting a BMW get a "propper" one. Did you by chance see last seasons topgear test with the new 3 series in it? Well ruling was they had nothing to say as the new model was too boring and just a "car" very plain and mundain.

Eoin

Hagar wrote:

Yes, it's a badge but change the badge on a Passat and you have a Skoda.

Is that supposed to be a bad thing? I would have no problems driving the Octavia RS...

Squirrel

Hagar wrote:

Yes, it's a badge but change the badge on a Passat and you have a Skoda.

Change it again and you've got an Audi.

Can you check out the Hyundai Sonata, very good standard equipment

redman

Go for the Passat

dts

For a company car look at ALFA 159 its got a great badge, looks cool has more toys than the beema, the best drive in this class and as its a company car you dont have to worry that after three years its probably ready for the scrappers.:D

phoenix_nights

My preference would be a TDI passat with DSG gearbox and in estate format. Looks better (in my opinion) than the saloon.

Eoin

dts wrote:

For a company car look at ALFA 159 its got a great badge, looks cool has more toys than the beema, the best drive in this class and as its a company car you dont have to worry that after three years its probably ready for the scrappers.:D

While I don't agree with the last part of your post, most companies will and are very unlikely to take an Alfa on as a company car. Some regular posters here are very likely to point this out too, so to save time: AIB dropped the 156 as a company car a few years ago.

prospect

eoin_s wrote:

While I don't agree with the last part of your post, most companies will and are very unlikely to take an Alfa on as a company car. Some regular posters here are very likely to point this out too, so to save time: AIB dropped the 156 as a company car a few years ago.

Lots of companies ban lots of cars, but everyone always remember that AIB banned the 156.
It gives me a headache listening to this repetition.
Doesn't one of the other banks ban Volvos? You'll never hear that mentioned on a 'Should I buy a Volvo thread'.
I also heard, here on boards I think, that someones employer had banned VW's.


However, it had to be said sometime:
What about the Skoda Superb?

spockety

optiplexgx270 wrote:

A BMW with less than 6 pots is a useless shell. Has lots of potential but is let down by the void under the hood. Personally i find that anyone that knows a bit about cars disregards the sub *23 models in the BMW range bar the 1 series.

I'd go for the decent spec'd VW over the BMW for the above reason and also more importantly the VW is a great car. Bottom line if your getting a BMW get a "propper" one. Did you by chance see last seasons topgear test with the new 3 series in it? Well ruling was they had nothing to say as the new model was too boring and just a "car" very plain and mundain.

Uh, the 320 has six cylinders. In fact, the E46 320 puts out almost as much bhp as the earlier 323 (2.5l) 170bhp or thereabouts, from a 2.2 litre engine.

Eoin

prospect wrote:

Lots of companies ban lots of cars, but everyone always remember that AIB banned the 156.
It gives me a headache listening to this repetition.
Doesn't one of the other banks ban Volvos? You'll never hear that mentioned on a 'Should I buy a Volvo thread'.
I also heard, here on boards I think, that someones employer had banned VW's.


However, it had to be said sometime:
What about the Skoda Superb?

Prospect, believe me I agree with you - I was just saving the usual nay-sayers the time by posting one of the arguments normally trotted out. Also, it has to be said that companies are likely to see the Alfa as an impractical option due to the documented crap resale value and perceived (rightly or wrongly) reliability issues.

It was actually me who said that BOI have banned Volvos - ironically, my father got a company Alfa from them because he could no longer get a volvo!

Lex Luthor

dts wrote:

For a company car look at ALFA 159 its got a great badge, looks cool has more toys than the beema, the best drive in this class and as its a company car you dont have to worry that after three years its probably ready for the scrappers.:D

According to a very reputable UK web site, they claim the 159 will have similar depreciation to the Passat & Accord.

If thats true, I can kiss goodbye to picking up a cheap one in 3yrs time

maidhc

Lex Luthor wrote:

According to a very reputable UK web site, they claim the 159 will have similar depreciation to the Passat & Accord.

If thats true, I can kiss goodbye to picking up a cheap one in 3yrs time

I doubt it. Even if the 159 proves to be a fantastic car in every respect (including reliability), it will probably still bomb in the s/h market. In Ireland certain cars just seem to hold their value even if they are utter dogs (starlet?.. 1.4 Golf) and some are worthless even if they are brilliant in every way (Mondeo?).

To answer the OPs question.. I would jump for the Passat. It is very well finished inside in comfortline spec. Feels like a very solid car too, and it is massive

optiplexgx270

spockety wrote:

Uh, the 320 has six cylinders. In fact, the E46 320 puts out almost as much bhp as the earlier 323 (2.5l) 170bhp or thereabouts, from a 2.2 litre engine.

i know yeah should have put down *20 but the 520 is a bit of a dog also.

spockety

optiplexgx270 wrote:

i know yeah should have put down *20 but the 520 is a bit of a dog also.

Well the newer 520's (post 2001) got a bump to the same 2.2 litre 6 pot 170bhp engine too.

Did you mean the older ones, or are even the newer versions (of the older model ) dogs?

J.

Lex Luthor

spockety wrote:

Uh, the 320 has six cylinders. In fact, the E46 320 puts out almost as much bhp as the earlier 323 (2.5l) 170bhp or thereabouts, from a 2.2 litre engine.

but the M52 2.5l engine (on the 523i & 323i) was basically a down graded engine from its predecessor which had 192bhp. It was to allow BMW to sell the *28i cars which had 192bhp. Who would pay for a 328i (2.8 engine) with 192bhp if there was a 2.5l with same power?

I think now with the new 5 series you can't get a 2.0litre engine anymore.

spockety

Well wasn't the 323 discontinued when a new 2.5 six cylinder block was brought into play putting out 192bhp? Which is the 325? Then the 328 was done away with and replaced with a 3 litre 330 putting out what, 220 or something?

Presumably the new 5 series is still using the same 2.2 litre engine as the older 520, and the E46 320?

prospect

eoin_s wrote:

it has to be said that companies are likely to see the Alfa as an impractical option due to the documented crap resale value

Most companies lease their cars, so they don't give a toss about re-sale value.

lomb

id run with a golf 2.0 tdi with dsg box. one of the fastest real world cars on the road today. animal power between 30 mph and 70..

Lex Luthor

spockety wrote:

Well wasn't the 323 discontinued when a new 2.5 six cylinder block was brought into play putting out 192bhp? Which is the 325? Then the 328 was done away with and replaced with a 3 litre 330 putting out what, 220 or something?

Correct

bazz26

prospect wrote:

Most companies lease their cars, so they don't give a toss about re-sale value.

True but most leasing companies will factor in a certain amount for depreciation when they calculate the leasing rates. At least they did when I had a company car a good few years ago. It may have changed since then though.

Seth Brundle

spockety wrote:

Presumably the new 5 series is still using the same 2.2 litre engine as the older 520, and the E46 320?

The current 320i (E90 so doesn't apply to coupe or cabrio) has a 4 cylinder 2L engine which gives IIRC 150bhp. Its the first 2L petrol running on 4 cylinders for a long long time.

Anan1

spockety wrote:

Uh, the 320 has six cylinders. In fact, the E46 320 puts out almost as much bhp as the earlier 323 (2.5l) 170bhp or thereabouts, from a 2.2 litre engine.

I don't think that the current 320i has 6 cylinders.

Seth Brundle

Anan - I think spockety was referring to the E46 i.e. the current coupe and cabrio.
Anyhow, I mentioned the position of the E90 320i just above your post.

Anan1

kbannon wrote:

Anan - I think spockety was referring to the E46 i.e. the current coupe and cabrio.
Anyhow, I mentioned the position of the E90 320i just above your post.

Sorry, never saw your post!

spockety

Yeah sorry I was referring to the E46 3 series.

But back to the 6 clyinder *20's... the current 520i, surely that's not a 2 litre 4 cylinder jobbie is it?

I can't find any mention of a 520i on official bmw sites, but I've definitely seen them around Dublin. The only 520 they list on bmw.ie or co.uk is a 520d.

But anyway, the older 520i, with the 2.2 litre engine at 170bhp.. considered a dog..??

optiplexgx270

In a car that size and weight pretty much yeah My main point is that the 318 is a fairly poor example of a BMW and engines aside i'd jump at the passat with toys far quicker over a bare stock 318.

unkel

spockety wrote:

the current 520i, surely that's not a 2 litre 4 cylinder jobbie is it?

No it's a 6 pot 2.2l. The last 5 series with a 4 cylinder was two models ago, the 518i (E34). There are still a good few around although it was never a popular model even in pre-Celtic tiger Ireland

spockety wrote:

the older 520i, with the 2.2 litre engine at 170bhp.. considered a dog..??

Of course it is not a dog. It does 0-100 km/h in 9 seconds. How can anyone call that a dog?

optiplexgx270

Ok the 520 is fine hardly record breaking by any means but if your BMW has less than 6 pots at least and isnt a bike then well you certainly do NOT own "The Ultimate Driving Machine"

Passat all the way, you have had a BMW time to try something different.

Seth Brundle

spockety wrote:

Yeah sorry I was referring to the E46 3 series.

But back to the 6 clyinder *20's... the current 520i, surely that's not a 2 litre 4 cylinder jobbie is it?

I can't find any mention of a 520i on official bmw sites, but I've definitely seen them around Dublin. The only 520 they list on bmw.ie or co.uk is a 520d.

The E60 520i saloon (6 cylinder) has been discontinued in favour of the 2.5L 523i (also a straight 6). The touring never saw a 520i guise.

unkel wrote:

No it's a 6 pot 2.2l. The last 5 series with a 4 cylinder was two models ago, the 518i (E34). There are still a good few around although it was never a popular model even in pre-Celtic tiger Ireland

Unless you are talking about diesels!

optiplexgx270 wrote:

but if your BMW has less than 6 pots at least and isnt a bike then well you certainly do NOT own "The Ultimate Driving Machine"

E30 M3? various 318iS

Scubadevils

Where to start? Been away for a few days!

It was mentioned a couple of pages back if the power is important to me...yes, very. Not because I want to drive like a lunatic but the power for overtaking is v important. I have driven cars with far less power when my own car is being serviced and its a serious white knuckle job passing a truck or something, I could do without that stress!

I wouldnt consider myself a badge snob but I will contradict myself in the same sentence and say if I'm not paying for it I certainly wouldnt take a Skoda over a VW or Audi (no offence to any Skoda drivers ). I know I'll pay some through BIK but I do over 30k a year so theres not a huge difference really in the BIK. The Superb (I even hate the name), the Passat and the A4 may effectively be the same car but I think the Superb is a big ugly lump of a car, not my cup of tea at all. The A4 is in much the same league as the BMW in as far as getting feck all for base models.

I actually like the high-end Golf suggestion. The Golf is a lovely car and it would be nice with full leather and lots of extras & big engine, tempting alright. As for the Alfa, not a runner. The company I work for also have an Alfa ban from past experience. Regardless of whether they consider resale value because of leasing, they still have to consider the time sales people end up off the road due to problems with the car! I had an Alfa with a previous company and had endless trouble, as did several others - that company have also since banned Alfas. I LOVED the Alfa for the drive and gadgets, really excellent car but it let me down too many times - I wouldnt take one now even if I could.

As it stands, if I can get the 318 SE I'm going to go for that over the Passat. The SE has a nice few extras such as a bit of chrome, alloys, climate control, fogs etc. They now finally have cup holders as standard!!!

An another spanner got thrown into the decision over the last couple of days - the new VW Eos...a very nice car! Saw it over in Germany yesterday - not on the road, on show at a fair. Dont know the price but I believe its not going to be any more than the 316. May not be practical though for driving all over Ireland!

http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/volkswagen_news/article_1526.shtml

Thanks for all the advice!

phoenix_nights

Test drive a passat TDI with the DSG gearbox. You won't regret it.

Scubadevils

phoenix_nights wrote:

Test drive a passat TDI with the DSG gearbox. You won't regret it.

I took the previous Passat for a test drive a few months ago - it was the 2L TDI and I was very impressed so I can imagine the new model with DSG would be a fun drive. Reckon I'll try get a test drive this weekend.

Lex Luthor

how does the DSG box work?

unkel

kbannon wrote:

Unless you are talking about diesels!

True! I didn't want to add to the confusion of the BMW engine sizes :cool:

optiplexgx270

The VW EOS is a rather fantastic looking car i have to say. In the current VW range i like the Golf, Bora (well did like), high end Passat and now the EOS

phoenix_nights

Lex Luthor wrote:

how does the DSG box work?

A Dual-clutch gearbox is a semi-automatic transmission with separate clutches for odd and even gears. Shifts can be accomplished without interrupting power by transferring torque between these two clutches. A dual clutch gearbox eliminates the torque converter, which is a major source of parasitic loss in a traditional automatic transmission. This type of gearbox was invented by Andolphe Kégresse just before the outbreak of World War II.

Essentially, the engine drives two clutch packs simultaneously. The outer clutch pack drives gears 1, 3, and 5 (and reverse). The inner clutch pack drives gears 2, 4, and 6. The synchronizers that select an odd gear can be moved while driving in an even gear and vice versa. Dual clutch transmissions that are currently on the market use wet multi-plate clutches, similar to the clutches used in traditional automatic transmissions. Versions that use dry clutches, like those usually associated with manual transmissions, are rumored to be in development by several manufacturers.

This type of transmission is finding increasing popularity in Europe, and apparently also in America although some say CVT (Continuously Variable Transmission) is more popular in the US. In August 2005 BorgWarner, who call their technology "DualTronic", signed further agreements with two other (unnamed) European automotive manufacturers to incorporate their gearbox. In the mean time, the VW-group vehicles available in Europe with the DSG gearbox include Audi TT, A3, A4, VW Passat, Golf, Touran, SEAT Altea, Toledo, Leon and Skoda Octavia.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-clutch_gearbox"

ChristyBrown

Go with the Passat - the beemer will be heavy with only 1.6 behind it and you wil prob get more toys as standard with the passat