bjj, mma......... the challenge

judomick

mma is a sport but the objective of this sport is to beat an opponent in a fight its basically a fight with rules to protect the fighters against lasting damage,

mma=fighting

self defence=fighting

therefore
mma=self defence

bit of monty python rationale there but i hope you guys get the point


this is my post from another thread, the reasoning is simple and can be applied to people being witches etc, but the point remains, a few videos have been posted in regards effectiveness of bjj,mma on the street whereby wing chun, kung fu, karate practitioners have their ass handed to them

im open minded i started with judo did it for a few years then i rolled with jk one day he handed me a lesson in humility, still does!

we can argue until our bovine friends return to their dwellings about this vs that, the only proof i have seen is of the effectiveness of bjj, mma, judo, wrestling, boxing (alive arts) working in street situations


so can others of any art please post some footage/videos of their arts being applied in street or alive applications thanks, just to set my mind at ease because honestly i personally dont believe kenpo, hapkido,aikido,wing chun,karate,silat,rex kwon do etc works against resisting opponents thats my view i want to be proven wrong thanks!

if anyones wants an argument go somewhere else all i want is proof not anecdotes or debates, just proof

dlofnep

FYI: Use http://www.youtube.com to search for videos.

MaxBax

semmy schilit proves that karate (seidokikan or kyokushin) can work. as does andy hay.

Millionaire

Its well and good going to ground. if the attacker has buddies you are a dead man on the ground, and will get kicked to hell.
Proof ...because I have been on the ground alone with 5 attackers kicking me. have attacker number 1 arm locked on the ground was not great use to me at that stage,

one on one if it works great!

though there is no guarantee on the street if it is one on one.

Hell, I want to learn to do BJJ too. and still do all my other stuff.

I won't mention weapon defences again :-)

Michael O Leary

Sorry Judo Mick but I don't have the time to look through the internet to find a Wing Chun/Tsun man beating someone else on the street. It also wouldn't be a very healthy thing for me to do. However would you accept the absence of videos with Wing Chun/Tsun men getting beaten on the street as proof that Wing Tsun/Chun is effective?

Why are there so many videos of MMA or BJJ people in street fights? Surely they would be better off going to the Gym to increase my health so as to live longer, happier and healthier lives. Myself, thats where I am going now so that I can preserve my life in a more effective way instead of getting stressed and therefore raising my cholestral over the fact that you feel that I waste my time training Wing Tsun and Escrima.

The only real time that I had to defend myself recently was against three attacker and I can tell you that any type of grappling would have been fvck all use to me or anyone else who finds themselves in that position.

P.S. All the above is meant as friendly banter.

Regards,

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

dlofnep

The reason why you have a few videos of MMA guys fighting is because they are amazed with the fact that they can now beat the crap out of anyone at any given time when before they couldn't. Unfortunately this goes to some people's heads and they feel the need to fight and record it. Not all MMA guys are like that - People just like to upload fights on the net.

judomick

re-read my post no anecdotal evidence or it happened to me just proof this has been debated to death,


michael, all bjj,mma guys carry camcorders with them part of the uniform

Michael O Leary

dlofnep wrote:

The reason why you have a few videos of MMA guys fighting is because they are amazed with the fact that they can now beat the crap out of anyone at any given time when before they couldn't. Unfortunately this goes to some people's heads and they feel the need to fight and record it. Not all MMA guys are like that - People just like to upload fights on the net.

Yeah John,

I know there are people like that in every activity. Point was made for amusement only.

Regards,

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

dlofnep

Michael O Leary

judomick wrote:

re-read my post no anecdotal evidence or it happened to me just proof this has been debated to death,


michael, all bjj,mma guys carry camcorders with them part of the uniform

LOL and some of them according to John O'Brien have hooks. So thats what makes them so hard. I want one too.

Regards,

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

Musashi

If there is a video of me "winning" a scrap it came from the toilets of a nightclub here in town. I doubt youtube got it and it's "Anecdotal" at best! I'm sure MMA and MT elbows to the "Snot-Box" work just as well as TKD Ap-Yop- Kimchi-Summat Elbows? When being actively "aggressed" twat the hoor with something, anything, fer de win? Actually fighting back makes you feel less of a tosser even if you get stomped, apparently?

Michael O Leary

Musashi wrote:

If there is a video of me "winning" a scrap it came from the toilets of a nightclub here in town. I doubt youtube got it and it's "Anecdotal" at best! I'm sure MMA and MT elbows to the "Snot-Box" work just as well as TKD Ap-Yop- Kimchi-Summat Elbows? When being actively "aggressed" twat the hoor with something, anything, fer de win? Actually fighting back makes you feel less of a tosser even if you get stomped, apparently?

Musashi, you seem like a cool guy but what the hell have you been drinkin tonight? I haven't a clue what the fvck you are talking about.

Regards,

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

Mikel

There is a way you could test this.
Go to the Bridgestone and tell them you want to fight.
Do the same with SBG, St Saviours BC, a TKD club, Wing Chun, Judo etc.
See which ones you survive, and which ones you don't.
Actually, if you went to Bridgestone first you probably wouldn't make it to the others.

judomick

mikel read the post! im a big advocate of muay thai i think its the most complete standup art, this is more for the guys who can never back up debate with proof

sbg 4 times a week does me good right now

MaxBax

i reckon i could take a descent light heavy weight boxer down and tap him out

JohnMc1

MaxBax wrote:

semmy schilit proves that karate (seidokikan or kyokushin) can work. as does andy hay.

I believe you are thinking of the late Andy Hug. I'm amazed nobody else noticed that.

MaxBax

woops. you're correctomundo. i only heard of him the other day anyway. sorry well spottled

andy hug andy hug andy hug andy hug andy hug andy hug andy hug andy hug andy hug andy hug andy hug andy hug andy hug andy hug andy hug andy hug

JohnMc1

No problem Max.

Naos

Seeing as no one has posted a vid yet..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPqHe4n29d4&search=pimp%20gets%20owned - Pimp gets Owned

dlofnep

A wasted pimp doesn't count.

Naos

Amusing none the less.

What about this then: http://www.alldumb.com/item/12241/ - Homie gets owned.
I know its been around here before, but just incase some missed it..

dlofnep

He windmilled like Bart Simpson.

Naos

The punch was given a name in another thread here, dont make me go and search for it dlofnep...

(Although yes, there was a high amount of rabbit punching going on)

dlofnep

Come on, he pranced around like a shaolin monk for 10 minutes and then completely changed his stance before he attacked and windmilled.

Millionaire

They way the white man hit the pimp in the first vid.

thats a perfect example of a CQC pre emptive stike in action.. perfect.

Michael O Leary

Hi Judo Mick,

You stated that BJJ/MMA works fine on the streets because there are videos out there showing MMA practitioners winning fights and you used this as proof. However dlofnep stated that these videos are recorded by MMA practitioners who feel the need to fight. So here is a question. If a MMA practitioner got his ass kicked after having started a fight on the street do you think his mates who recorded the fight are going to post this on the web? Neither do I and I don't really think you can use these videos as proof.

You also stated that Wing Chun practitioners and I presume by association, Wing Tsun practitioners also have their ass handed to them on the street. Do you have videos of this and if not, then using your reasoning would you accept as proof that Wing Tsun is effective on the street?

I accept dlofnep's point that not all MMA players start fights in order to record them and post them on the web however in comparison to other martial artists from other backgrounds, a lot of them do. However while a minority may actually be responsible, is this activity supported by the overall culture in the respective organisations?

If so I would suggest that we keep this in mind when talking about whether sports orientated or self-defense orientated martial artists have the least healthy mindset.

Regards,

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

dlofnep

Michael,

BJJ/MMA does work on the street. I already posted a while back that I was attack by a guy much larger than me and I took him down and controlled him with ease. From personal experience, it works and works very good.

dlofnep

As far as MMA guys go, I don't know anyone personally that trains MMA in Ireland that starts fights. Those videos you might see are some guys that are young and have an ego and because they are confident with their new found skills that like to record fights - They would do it regardless of what they learned, provided that they knew that art actually worked. That's the truth.

Our instructors don't tell us in gyms to go out and fight on the streets, infact if they heard you did - I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be pleased.

Quillo

Some interesting points from realfighting.com (Sammy Franco) relating to the use of BJJ/MMA ground fighting. I have edited out the points relating to weapons as they are, it would appear from previous postings, of no importance in a SD situation


....the problem is that most submission fighting skills and tactics taught in today's BJJ (Brazilian jujitsu) or MMA (Mixed Martial Arts) schools are inadequate for street combat. Furthermore, many grapplers believe that when faced with a self-defense situation, they will simply take their opponent to the ground and apply one of those "cool looking" submission holds. While this may sound strategically correct, I can assure you that it's wrong - DEAD WRONG!

CONSIDER THESE POSSIBILITIES!

(1) You are faced with multiple assailants - Since ground fighting requires maximal body entanglement, it is virtually impossible to fight multiple attackers. You better pray to God that you are equally skilled with standup (kicking, punching and clinch work) combat skills if you are to survive a multiple attacker situation. There is no other way around this folks!

(3) Onlooker intervention - Human are inveterate champions of the underdog. Nobody likes to see a guy mounted and pummeled with vicious blows. There is always a possibility that witnesses observing your fight might decide to jump in and help your adversary out - even though your adversary was the one who committed the criminal assault! Remember, if you are locked up on the pavement with your enemy and spectators decide to intervene, you could be in big trouble.

(4) Psychoactive drugs - If your adversary is high on psychoactive drugs he will have freakish strength and often be immune to pain. I know of one case where it took five police officers ten minutes to wrestle and arrest a 120-pound woman who was high on PCP. Could you image how difficult it would be to ground fight a large man on such powerful drugs?

(5) Environmental dangers - Your environment and immediate surrounding can harm you (heavy traffic, a cliff, a street curb, etc.) when ground fighting with your enemy! I know of one situation where a skilled grappler and his opponent wrestled their way into a busy intersection. Both men were struck and killed by an oncoming truck!

(7) Biting and gouging - Many submission techniques can be negated with biting, gouging, clawing, and various other maiming techniques. Most submission fighting schools don't take these critical factors into account.

Michael O Leary

dlofnep wrote:

Michael,

BJJ/MMA does work on the street. I already posted a while back that I was attack by a guy much larger than me and I took him down and controlled him with ease. From personal experience, it works and works very good.

Hi dlofnep,

I have never said BJJ/MMA does not work on the street and I accept your anecdotal evidence of your experience as I am sure that you will accept mine when I used Wing Tsun while fighting 3 guys on the ground. However JudoMick will not accept anecdotal evidence from either of us and the challange is to provide video evidence. I am merely drawing attention to the validity of his "proof".

The only reason why I have revisited this thread is that in another thread he indicated that we were unable to counter his argument.

I am sure that you or any other responsible MMA instructor would encourage your students to go and start and record fights just as I would never encourage a student to carry or use a knife on someone. I just think that in future when we talk about the mindset of MMA vs SD we should remember these videos. And while some MMA representatives go "Tut, tut" about students starting fights they are all too ready to use these videos when it suits them.

Regards,

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

Millionaire

Quillo wrote:

Some interesting points from realfighting.com (Sammy Franco) relating to the use of BJJ/MMA ground fighting. I have edited out the points relating to weapons as they are, it would appear from previous postings, of no importance in a SD situation


....the problem is that most submission fighting skills and tactics taught in today's BJJ (Brazilian jujitsu) or MMA (Mixed Martial Arts) schools are inadequate for street combat. Furthermore, many grapplers believe that when faced with a self-defense situation, they will simply take their opponent to the ground and apply one of those "cool looking" submission holds. While this may sound strategically correct, I can assure you that it's wrong - DEAD WRONG!

CONSIDER THESE POSSIBILITIES!

(1) You are faced with multiple assailants - Since ground fighting requires maximal body entanglement, it is virtually impossible to fight multiple attackers. You better pray to God that you are equally skilled with standup (kicking, punching and clinch work) combat skills if you are to survive a multiple attacker situation. There is no other way around this folks!

(3) Onlooker intervention - Human are inveterate champions of the underdog. Nobody likes to see a guy mounted and pummeled with vicious blows. There is always a possibility that witnesses observing your fight might decide to jump in and help your adversary out - even though your adversary was the one who committed the criminal assault! Remember, if you are locked up on the pavement with your enemy and spectators decide to intervene, you could be in big trouble.

(4) Psychoactive drugs - If your adversary is high on psychoactive drugs he will have freakish strength and often be immune to pain. I know of one case where it took five police officers ten minutes to wrestle and arrest a 120-pound woman who was high on PCP. Could you image how difficult it would be to ground fight a large man on such powerful drugs?

(5) Environmental dangers - Your environment and immediate surrounding can harm you (heavy traffic, a cliff, a street curb, etc.) when ground fighting with your enemy! I know of one situation where a skilled grappler and his opponent wrestled their way into a busy intersection. Both men were struck and killed by an oncoming truck!

(7) Biting and gouging - Many submission techniques can be negated with biting, gouging, clawing, and various other maiming techniques. Most submission fighting schools don't take these critical factors into account.

Sammy Franco got some interesting training. I have seen his DVDs and communicated with him in the past.

He does alot of training for police teams, and military.

dlofnep

Whoever wrote that is an idiot.

(4) Psychoactive drugs - If your adversary is high on psychoactive drugs he will have freakish strength and often be immune to pain.

If this is the case then it is applicible to whatever art you study. BJJ's sole purpose is not to inflict pain, but to win without having to hurt your opponent. Regardless of what drug they are on, once they are caught in a choke, they will go out like a baby. This argument is hardly valid in proving an art not effective. Infact, it works completely against the writer.

(5) Environmental dangers - Your environment and immediate surrounding can harm you (heavy traffic, a cliff, a street curb, etc.) when ground fighting with your enemy! I know of one situation where a skilled grappler and his opponent wrestled their way into a busy intersection. Both men were struck and killed by an oncoming truck!

Seems very convenient that he knows someone that this has happened to. ask him to prove it and I'm sure he cannot. People will get hit by trucks regardless of the art. And just because there are enviroment dangers, doesn't mean the grappler will not be aware of them. Infact, if he gets the takedown, it will be the other guy who is in jeopardy of the enviromental dangers and not him.

Biting and gouging - Many submission techniques can be negated with biting, gouging, clawing, and various other maiming techniques. Most submission fighting schools don't take these critical factors into account.

Grapplers can also bite and gouge - And you can't also bite a grappler. If someone has your back and a RNC sunk in, there is nothing you can do about it. it's not like a grappler is going to hand his arm to some guy and tell him to bite it. A stupid argument.


Not to mention the multiple people argument which is the weakest of all. No BJJ guy is going to jump to guard when two gusy are attacking him. He will run like any normal person. If you're outnumbered, chances are - You're ****ed. that's tough, that's life. Sh*t happens. Just run.

Quillo

dlofnep wrote:

Not to mention the multiple people argument which is the weakest of all. No BJJ guy is going to jump to guard when two gusy are attacking him. He will run like any normal person. If you're outnumbered, chances are - You're ****ed. that's tough, that's life. Sh*t happens. Just run.

I think the multiple people situation here tends to refer to where you think you're up against one person....until you're on the ground and his mates join in, rather than the obvious presence of several people.

As for the rest of it. Its there for people to think about. No amount of argument is likely to sway the devout followers of any approach, be it SD, TMA, MMA or RBSD......

dlofnep

Quillo, when you're in a street fight - People grapple and tear out of you regardless. Fights will often go to the ground, BJJ will let you deal with it if it does. If his friends jump you, that's going to happen either way. Just don't put yourself in that situation where you've no friends for backup. That guys arguments were weak and had no value whatsoever.

Millionaire

I think, the answer is to "Learn it all!"

Thats what I am planning over the next few years. Learn everything.
1. Because I love it and I want to learn, and enjoy it, and its fun.

2. get the best striking training... IMO thats Muay Thai. the best grappling..looks like BJJ, (plus BJJ sounds like fun to learn).

3. Keep learning the Combatives and RBSD stuff.

4. Get fit in the process, learn more, make new friends, and fun doing it.

Then we can do it all. still kick butt if you need to, and be a total all round fighter.

Quillo

dlofnep wrote:

Quillo, when you're in a street fight - People grapple and tear out of you regardless. Fights will often go to the ground, BJJ will let you deal with it if it does. .

I don't think anyone would diagree with this....

However, if we consider what I'll call here the "grappling approach" and the "non-grappling approach"...

It seems to me that the grappling approach activily looks to bring an assailant to the ground to control them.

The non-grappling approach looks to avoid going to ground where at all possible.

From a purely SD perspective I would suggest that the non-grappling approach give you the better chance in what is very much a game of chance.

judomick

hey Michael my reason for this thread was the arguments (debates) that have gone on, will never be resolved mma, bjj, thai boxing, boxing have been proven to work against resisting opponents, i simply asked if anyone of the styles that imo are redundant had any footage of there art working in a situation were the other person was non-compliant be it street or competition, and no videos have been posted just debate, so my goal of this thread has drowned in a sea of argument, much like i thought it would

Quillo no disrespect i read your first post where you quoted an article, i have not read any subsequent posts because i really dont want to get into it, not the goal of this thread, but going to ground fancy submissions etc. ask any grappler if they were in a street situation would they go to ground and try fancy submissions im guessing pretty much all would say no, why because of the other guy trying to kick them in the head, we know this this argument comes up time and time again but every grappler agrees with you, so why keep asking

im a part time doorman ive been in about 20 physical altercations in the last year alone, ive gone to ground once every other time has been me grappling (standup) with the persons and removing them effectively with ease in most cases from the premises, how many strikes have i thrown.......none why? have a go at answering the why?

judomick

hey Michael my reason for this thread was the arguments (debates) that have gone on, will never be resolved mma, bjj, thai boxing, boxing have been proven to work against resisting opponents, i simply asked if anyone of the styles that imo are redundant had any footage of there art working in a situation were the other person was non-compliant be it street or competition, and no videos have been posted just debate, so my goal of this thread has drowned in a sea of argument, much like i thought it would

Quillo no disrespect i read your first post where you quoted an article, i have not read any subsequent posts because i really dont want to get into it, not the goal of this thread, but going to ground fancy submissions etc. ask any grappler if they were in a street situation would they go to ground and try fancy submissions im guessing pretty much all would say no, why because of the other guy trying to kick them in the head, we know this this argument comes up time and time again but every grappler agrees with you, so why keep asking

im a part time doorman ive been in about 20 physical altercations in the last year alone, ive gone to ground once every other time has been me grappling (standup) with the persons and removing them effectively with ease in most cases from the premises, how many strikes have i thrown.......none why? have a go at answering the why?

p.s all anecdotal do not take as proof

Quillo

judomick wrote:

Quillo no disrespect i read your first post where you quoted an article, i have not read any subsequent posts because i really dont want to get into it, not the goal of this thread, but going to ground fancy submissions etc. ask any grappler if they were in a street situation would they go to ground and try fancy submissions im guessing pretty much all would say no, why because of the other guy trying to kick them in the head, we know this this argument comes up time and time again but every grappler agrees with you, so why keep asking

im a part time doorman ive been in about 20 physical altercations in the last year alone, ive gone to ground once every other time has been me grappling (standup) with the persons and removing them effectively with ease in most cases from the premises, how many strikes have i thrown.......none why? have a go at answering the why?

Sorry for wandering off topic...

We had two of three doormen come to Kaze Arashi Ryu on and off, mainly to work with restraining techniques. I guess the reason you haven't used strikes is that your intent was not primarily self-defence but restraint and control as part of your job ?

judomick

because i dont need to, and id hurt my hands:D

seriously though my job is not assault, and i dont think it would be fair for me to start hitting people, if i did well then im being a bully, but usually when people wake up from being choked out there not so agressive for some reason, a fancy stand up submission

Michael O Leary

Hi JudoMick,

You did not really talk about street or competition. You wrote, "a few videos have been posted in regards effectiveness of bjj,mma on the street whereby wing chun,,, practitioners have their ass handed to them. You used the issue of street videos to compare the effectiveness of bjj, mma vs wing chun amonst others.

I am drawing attention to the fact that in the MMA world some people go out, start fights, record them and then post them onto the web and that some MMA instructors seem to think this is normal or acceptable or even if they disapprove they are all too ready to quote these videos and this encourages the violence in the first place. Could I have your opinion on this?

These videos are taken by MMA people so if the MMA person gets their ass kicked do you think they will post it on the web? I would argue that this is not "proof". Could I have your opinion on this?

Seeing as how you are using street videos as proof as to the effectivness of a system do you accept that the lack of street videos with Wing Tsun practitioners losing fights is an indication of their effectiveness?

Regards,

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

judomick

judomick wrote:

we can argue until our bovine friends return to their dwellings about this vs that, the only proof i have seen is of the effectiveness of bjj, mma, judo, wrestling, boxing (alive arts) working in street situations


so can others of any art please post some footage/videos of their arts being applied in street or alive applications thanks, just to set my mind at ease because honestly i personally dont believe kenpo, hapkido,aikido,wing chun,karate,silat,rex kwon do etc works against resisting opponents thats my view i want to be proven wrong thanks!

if anyones wants an argument go somewhere else all i want is proof not anecdotes or debates, just proof

hi michael this is part of my original post, i state that i speak in the first part about videos in street situations, there are also plenty of tapes of the mentioned arts in competition, friday sky sports... boxing etc

2nd paragraph i asked if anyone had videos of there arts in street or alive applications namely resisting opponents i.e competition

personally i dont think wing tsun is trained in an alive manner (see johns post in other thread) from the one or 2 wing tsun guys ive met and rolled with and maybe my own ignorance of wing tsun, but am open to some form of proof as to the effectiveness of wing tsun

i believe anyone who uses there skill to bully someone else is an asshole there are videos out there that highlight this, but there are also videos of people using boxing, bjj, mma in genuine fights, and tons of competition videos

Michael, there are also videos of bjj guys gettin knocked out in competition (mma)what does this say to me? bjj is not a striking art and never will be, bjj would be useless in a boxing match

but we can see this, as opposed to other arts where we cant see anything except dead patterns

dlofnep

Theres only one way to solve this mystery.

boards meet!

Roper

Michael,

Short task for you. It might be helpful for a few other guys on this boards too.

Define "MMA guy". What is it that he does? What is the "MMA Community"? And name some members of said community on this board and where they fit in.

I'd appreciate it if you could take a couple of minutes for this,

Cheers,
Barry

judomick

this thread was for videos, and so far we have a guy windmilling and whole lot of debate

Michael O Leary

Hi JudoMick,

For the fourth fvckin time, will you please answer my specific questions?

If the MMA guy is in charge of the camera do you think he is going to post the video on the web and if not does this whole issue of street videos then hold any water?

What do you think of MMA guys going out and starting fights, recording them and posting them on the web?

Do you acknowledge that there are very few, if any street videos of Wing Tsun, Wing Chun, Silat, Karate or rex-qwon-do guys getting their asses handed to them?

Please answer each point and if not please don't in other threads refer to the fact that your "challange" has disappeared from the front page of this forum.

See you in May for some training.

Regards,

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

Michael O Leary

Hi Mick,

I have just seen that you have answered two. Sorry I hadn't noticed however if you could answer question 1 and 3, I would appreciate it.

Regards,

Michael.

judomick

hey Michael

anyone posting videos of themselves beating up someone else is a bully and an asshole, would they post if they lost probably not
but there are videos of bjj guys or mma guys losing to other bjj mma guys

do they hold any water if the the opponent is resisting and fighting back, unfortunately i do the guys are dicks but the tools they are using are effective in the purpose


these arts are closely interlinked imo opinion

there are few videos of other arts being beaten in alive situations, but the point of my post was to see the effectiveness of these other arts in an alive setting, surely theres some footage of these arts in an alive setting be it competition or the street, this is all i was askin for, if theres not does it mean i believe them to be ineffective no, because i already do think they are ineffective i want someone to prove me wrong

hope this clears my point up a little

Michael O Leary

Hi JudoMick,

You have stated that there are lots of videos out there of MMA/BJJ guys using their skills on the street unlike martial artists from other backgrounds.

We also established that they are the ones who start fights and record them to post on the internet.

You also stated that anyone who does this is an asshole and a bully.

Does this mean that statistically speaking someone is more likely to meet or even become an asshole/bully from training in a MMA/BJJ setting rather than,,, oh, I don't know, a Wing Tsun/Escrima school?

Regards,

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

dlofnep

Michael, stop trying to put words in his mouth. Statisically speaking, nobody can answer anything because they haven't analyised anything to produce statistics.

Dragan

Michael O Leary wrote:

Does this mean that statistically speaking someone is more likely to meet or even become an asshole/bully from training in a MMA/BJJ setting rather than,,, oh, I don't know, a Wing Tsun/Escrima school?

Hardly,

just because some guys walk down the beach and beat the **** out of someone while screaming "stick him in an armbar" doesn't mean they practice MMA with any sort of reputable gym or school.
It just means there a bunch of bellends who think they know what they are doing but would most likely be schooled by someone with a years decent practice under there belt.

A literal interpretation would imply that MMA will simply attract more assholes as it is more widly known and more widely practiced than some arts, the "image" of MMA will attract people who maybe others might prefer not to be attracted.

If i can be so bold as to say that many, if not most, of the TMA guys i have known in my life have been total assholes.

Does this mean i should assume that should you do TMA you are likely to be, or to become, a total arsehole?

Or will i continue my trend of judging people individually regardless of what they study and practice?