Survival time line for major knife wounds

Quillo

For those interested in the grim realities of knife injury survival, have a look at an excerpt from W.E. Fairbairn's "Get Tough !".

Along with Applegate, Biddle and Styers, Fairbairn was one of the big names in mid 20th century military knife fighting.

http://www.gutterfighting.org/fairbairnknife.html

aoa321

Have you ever wondered about yourself?

Roper

Anyone here a professional soldier? No?

Well then please stfu about surviving the mean streets. I am f*cking sick of checking this board and finding war stories from people who live in one of the most peaceful countries in the Western world. Stop writing about knife defence and go get your prostate checked out, it's far healthier in the end, and far, far more likely to kill you than a knife weilding maniac.

aoa321

Roper wrote:

Stop writing about knife defence and go get your prostate checked out

nice one

quillo,
while the nice doctor has his camera up yer hole, ask him to have a look for your brain!!

Dave Joyce

Now boys while you are entitled to your opinion, and with which I disagree, why the fuvk are you checking out this thread if it doesn't interest you. You've seen the heading and if you don't like the look of it then don't bother your collective asses looking at the friggin thing!! From the heading of plenty of threads I don't even bother checking them out if I don't think I have any interest in the subject.

aoa321, seeing as you're so opinionated not to mention insulting, and this has been asked of other posters before, who are you and who do you train with??

Roper, I've never said there is an epidemic of knife weilding nuts running round the place, but to ignore the amount of bladed attacks there have been since the beginning of this year (and I'll put up the ones which were deemed newsworthy if you wish) is just putting your head in the sand and thinking the complete opposite which is that it doesn't happen here.

MaxBax

some dudes are obsessed with knifes, i think a few of them are on this forum

Quillo

Hmmmm....

I would have thought knife defence was important to anyone involved in self defence or the martial arts ? And I would have though civilians were much more likely to suffer knife wounds than military personnel given the fire-power available to soldiers ?

Anyway.

The link I posted was simply to bring home the seriousness of major injuries and the length of time you had to get medical attenston before loss of conciousness or death.

Curious that this seems to have annoyed subscribers to this list ?

Roper

Dave Joyce wrote:

Roper, I've never said there is an epidemic of knife weilding nuts running round the place, but to ignore the amount of bladed attacks there have been since the beginning of this year (and I'll put up the ones which were deemed newsworthy if you wish) is just putting your head in the sand and thinking the complete opposite which is that it doesn't happen here.

I don't deny that there is a chance of being attacked by a knife weilding atacker Dave, just that anyone genuinely interested in self preservation should have about 300 things on their list before knife defence. Be that cutting down on salt, putting their seat belt on, making sure they look before they cross the roads, getting their prostate checked, eating more greens. Once I've checked off all the items on my list Dave, then I'll check out knife defence. (Ironically probably FMA by the looks of it:D ) My gripe is with people obsessed enough by the possibility so as to perpetuate it's use.

aoa321

Dave Joyce wrote:

why the fuvk are you checking out this thread if it doesn't interest you

The reason I checked out the thread was because I found the title bizarre, and I found the content of the link completely and utterly bizarre. This is a public forum and I reserve the right to comment. I read many threads that I have no interest in and many that I disagree with - last time I looked at the forum guidlines there was no rule against that.

I haven't trained for many years now but I still follow MA as a sport, my background is kick-boxing and Tae-Kwon Do. I will not be revealing my name to you or anybody else, as is my right, as is not unusual on this and many other boards.

You'll get no apology or further comment from me on the fact that I am opinionated, however my insult is a different matter. It was, and was intended to be base, it was aimed at the original poster and I thought it was appropriate to the intelligence level of someone who would post a link to an article that details how to kill a person with a knife, how to carry a knife, how long it will take a victim to bleed to death, what artery to cut and how to cut it, etc. etc.

There's probably plenty more useful information in the article, I just had a quick scan through it to defend myself in this post. Correct me if I'm wrong but the emphasis of the article seems to be on how to kill someone rather than on any useful tactic for defending yourself from the impending surge in knife attacks that quillo seems to be so concerned about.

Your motives for defending the original poster are your business, my insult wasn't aimed at you, but he did post on a public forum, and like it or not I am allowed to comment on what I see as a rather pathetic post. In my opinion he should really have signed on to the "Personal Issues" section of the boards and posted it there.

I get the feeling we'll be agreeing to differ on this one !!

Michael O Leary

Roper wrote:

I don't deny that there is a chance of being attacked by a knife weilding atacker Dave, just that anyone genuinely interested in self preservation should have about 300 things on their list before knife defence. Be that cutting down on salt, putting their seat belt on, making sure they look before they cross the roads, getting their prostate checked, eating more greens. Once I've checked off all the items on my list Dave, then I'll check out knife defence. (Ironically probably FMA by the looks of it:D ) My gripe is with people obsessed enough by the possibility so as to perpetuate it's use.

Hi Roper,:)

With all respect (and i'm not being sarcastic) the points you have made have been done to death by all sides over the past few weeks. I think it is time to move on. Unless someone has something new to offer I am just going to ignore these debates as it leads to bad feelings between martial artists. I would nicely suggest that you do the same. If someone brings up information about knives then just ignore it.

Regards,

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

Dragan

To be honest folks i just think people need to remember the title of this forum.

It's not "Kickboxing" or "MMA" of "BJJ" or "TMA" it's Self Defence / Martial Arts.

It why i find comments like " this place has become to MMAie for my liking" or "if your worried about knife defence then you have serious psychological issues".

Remember guys, it's an open forum, people can post what they like about what they like once it's in a Self Defence / Martial Arts vein, or am i just missing the point here???

Anyway, i suggest we try something new over the next few weeks, which is just respecting each others opinion and maybe fighting the urge to just recycle old arguments and turn new posts into old posts???

But hey, maybe that's just me.

Quillo

Again, I have to say that it curious that presenting material on the use of a knife as a weapon is deemed sufficiently offense by some to warrant the comments above.

All of the martial arts have their origins on the battlefield.
From my trusty Penguin English Dictionary:
Martial: adj, relating to war; warlike.
Martial art: n, an Oriental art of combat

To defend against a weapon, I believe, you need to understand how that weapon is likely to be used against you. What its likely targets are and what the effect of reaching those targets may be.

I appreciate that there are many involved in the MA that prefer not to consider the origins of what they are doing and chose not to consider the realities of violence.

(One contributor, for example has a TKD backgrond. This art was developed by a soldier for military purposes. I had the privilage of meeting General Choi at an instructor's seminar in Dublin some years ago and he had a very pragmatic approach to violence !).

Some of us though perfer to face up to the grim realities (in a theoretical sense at least) so that we may better defend oursleves should the need arise.

Michael O Leary

Hi Quillo,:)

Good points. It is interesting to know that in the unlikely event of being cut/stabbed how much time you need to get treatment will depend on where in the body you get stabbed. Hospital staff say that victims of stabbing are less likely to survive nowadays then a decade before due to the fact that previously people were just stabbed once whereas today people are being stabbed multiple times and their chance of survival is much lower.

I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming that you are independent of the website and are merely calling to our attention an informative "piece" that you found in the website rather than informing us of the best way to go out and stab someone ourselves.

Your other thread starter regarding the legal consequences of using a martial art to defend yourself is equally interesting. It was actually something that I was going to properly research over the summer and write about but now Boru has beaten me to it. Damn! :mad:

Keep up the good work.

Regards,

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

Roper

That link was written by military personnel about how to kill another person in the fastest manner. That's not self defence, that's murder.

I utterly reserve my right to comment on it.

Dragan

Roper wrote:

That's not self defence, that's murder.

I utterly reserve my right to comment on it.

I'm not saying you shouldn't , or trying to remove your right to comment on it. It would just be nice to see some of the more intelligent people here coming up with more than " worry about cancer, then worry about knives."

It's just getting a tad old is all.

Quillo

Published for information purposes only Mr O'Leary !

My public profile shows my name and background. Not associated with any organisation or website other than those shown there. The "Quillo" alias is just for amusement and not something I hide behind.

And, for Mr. Roper (my apologies if my gender presumption is incorrect) - what better way to defend against murder than to understand the mechanics of how murder is committed, at least in theory ?

Roper

And I think that people should be far more responsible about what they post. If the OP had posted something about A&E departments in Ireland, and their experience with knife wounds, I would have either contributed positively, or just ignored it. But they didn't. They posted something that is TOTALLY out of context to the Irish experience. A military killing manual. That is precisely what that is.

If I were to post a link on how to best kill a dog, the mods of this site would rightly reprimand or ban me. But killing people for some reason is fine.

Dragan

To be honest, given that the OP has an interest in and practices Classical Fencing, I can see every reason why he would have an interest in this sort of thing!!

Accidents do happen (( joke, btw, before i get lynched ))

Dragan

Roper wrote:

If I were to post a link on how to best kill a dog, the mods of this site would rightly reprimand or ban me. But killing people for some reason is fine.

And i do recall that this conversation was pretty much had by others on this site already. Or at least something extrememly similar.

Quillo

Roper wrote:

If I were to post a link on how to best kill a dog, the mods of this site would rightly reprimand or ban me. But killing people for some reason is fine.

I'm sure that information on how to kill a dog could be of use in a self-defence situation and so may well be appropriate here !

But, it seems you are missing the point (or, perhaps I am not making it very well). I suggested people look at this information mentioned above, not to instruct the homicidally minded (as they need no instruction from me) but rather to show the SD/MA student what a knife can do and that failing to take a edged weapon seriously can have quick and unpleasant consequences.

Simply reading medical reports does not instruct a student in the mechanics of how the injuries were caused and so offers no hint as to a possible defence.

Anyway - I shall leave it there as it appears this has all been discussed before my joining the forum. You are most certainly entitled to your opinion and I thank you for the many replies that have kept this thread at the top of the list

Roper

Quillo wrote:

what better way to defend against murder than to understand the mechanics of how murder is committed, at least in theory ?

So now we're defending against murder? It was assault a few posts ago.

Run for the hills, the murderers are coming!:eek: Most murder is commited by someone known to the victim, so if you're really afraid of being 'murdered', I suggest you never let anyone know who your will is made out to, or never sleep with someones spouse.

By the way, anytime you want a thread bumped to the top of the pile, just give me a shout.;)