Office closed over Xmas?

aaf

I need some advice asap. I've just handed in my notice here in my job. Small company run by father & son. Not a nice environment to work in. Boss was using my car etc, etc. I work alot of hours, did a 17 hr day there about 3 weeks ago. I keep timesheets and I post them up on a board here in the office. Over the last two months, I built up about 30 hrs overtime. Last week I asked for last friday and monday off. Short notice I said to them. They said ok. I marked it down on my timesheet as time off in lieu of overtime worked. I have already taken 1 and a half days holidays this year. I also booked this coming Fri and Mon off about 6 weeks ago and marked it in on the calendar where holidays go. They are not happy about all this time off I'm taken even though I'm trying to explain that the time off is in lieu of overtime worked. They want me to cancel my weekend away. They are now pointing out that the office was closed for 4 days over Xmas and that the time off has to come from my annual holidays so I actually owe them time back at this stage. In my contract, it also states that my weekly working work will be 37.5 hours and that any overtime worked will be repaid by either time off or overtime paid. Can anyone clear up the Xmas holiday/office closed thing for me? I have asked them on a number of occasions how many holidays I am due and they just keep saying , the standard. From my research on the net, 20 days is the minimum. All this after the boss verbally abused me this morning when I handed in my notice saying he wanted me to work a full months notice and that he didn't care about my new job. You see there's a big job coming up in a month where they wanted me to stay a week supporting a clients site. I was getting nothing for my troubles. I'm actually shaking here as I type. The two of them ganged up on me. I was expecting this kind of a reaction as they are very unprofessional in their approach to employees (well, employee - me). Want out of here big time.

Tazz T

Take the leave in lieu. If they won't let you have it, walk. They broke their contract - you can break yours.

Gilgamesh

I would recommend keeping a copy of your timesheet too, if they want to bring it to court, it will help you out bigtime

laoisfan

run forrest run.....seriously, i would walk (if you are sure u have the other job lined up)....just do not tell them where you are going!!

best of luck!

Downtime

If office is closed over XMas normally these days would come out of annual holidays - you are only entitled to Christmas Day and Stephens day off legally.

aaf

laoisfan wrote:

run forrest run.....seriously, i would walk (if you are sure u have the other job lined up)....just do not tell them where you are going!!

best of luck!

Well, I don't have another job lined up. When I cam back in Jan, I told myself I want out by end of March so I haven't been able to secure a job yet. I just had enough of this and them telling me I had to stay a week on a clients site and not offer any form of payment or reimbursement was just the final straw.

Gilgamesh wrote:

I would recommend keeping a copy of your timesheet too, if they want to bring it to court, it will help you out bigtime

I keep my timesheets in Excel format and print them out at the end of each month. I left a place for my employer to sign them but he nver has. By law, employers are supposed to keep employee timesheets but he doesn't. He makes little notes on my timesheets. What I need clarification on is the Xmas office hours thing. They are telling me that it's standard practice if an office/company is closed over Xmas, then that comes out of an employees annual leave.

aaf

Downtime wrote:

If office is closed over XMas normally these days would come out of annual holidays - you are only entitled to Christmas Day and Stephens day off legally.

But this is the first I've heard of this. Having asked them on a number of occasions about how many holidays I have a year, they just say the "standard". Before I signed my original contract, they said they usually close over Xmas period. They didn't say that it would affect my annual leave and nothing to do with annual leave is in my contract.

Tazz T

Perfectly legal to take the days out of your leave and standard practice in Ireland.

Unless there's anything in your contract to say otherwise.

I thought you had another job lined up. I wouldn't leave until you did.

aaf

Tazz T wrote:

Perfectly legal to take the days out of your leave and standard practice in Ireland.

Unless there's anything in your contract to say otherwise.

I thought you had another job lined up. I wouldn't leave until you did.

Would you work in the conditions outlined above? I had to put a stop to them using my car. I let it go once or twice but then while I was out working in the company van, my boss would ask to use my car to pick up his kids, go home for lunch, even go to college and keep my car overnight. I'm not very assertive so I said yes all the time but when I told him in Jan that I wasn't comfortable with this, he snapped at me saying I'd have to meet him everywhere to pick up van. He uses the van as a 2nd family car and uses it to travel to and from work.

Despite a record year for business last year, I didn't get a Xmas bonus :eek: even though I was working very hard and long hours and was complimented by many clients regarding work done. I consistently have to start work at 5.30am, 6.30am etc to travel all over Ireland to have gear setup for clients and then not get home till 8/9/10pm. I have never received a cent for overtime. I had to ask for a yearly review last August and I had to ask to have timesheets kept as I had calculated that I was owed about 2 weeks in overtime. He disagreed and said I had no proof of that overtime. If I'd known I'd be doing that much driving and work, I would've thought twice about taking this job.

So you're saying that the 4 days the office was closed over Xmas has to come from my annual "standard" leave of 20 days? Even though that they never told me that or that it is not in my contract and never verbally agreed? I'm learning alot about working conditions lately. Sorry for the rant. I needed to get this out

Sposs

He sounds like an asshole get out of their as quick as possible.

Tazz T

Legally, days the office are closed at Xmas can be taken out of your leave (this is something I don't agree with at all - when I worked in the UK, if the office was closed, you couldn't go to work) - as can Good Friday - if you have that off. However, at just 20 days standard, you may be short of the legal minimum - you'd have to check that.

However, the hours you work are ridiculous and you should be more assertive and say this is why you're leaving. If they need you that badly, I'm sure they would look at their 'HR' policies.

Personally, I wouldn't leave without a job to go to, but if you wanted to, by what you've said here, they'd have very little comeback in a tribunal. It sounds like you're owed a lot of time in lieu.

penexpers

aaf wrote:

But this is the first I've heard of this. Having asked them on a number of occasions about how many holidays I have a year, they just say the "standard". Before I signed my original contract, they said they usually close over Xmas period. They didn't say that it would affect my annual leave and nothing to do with annual leave is in my contract.

I'm not sure they have to tell you that closing over Christmas affects your annual leave.

smashey

A few years ago, I tendered my resignation twice to my then boss. Each time he refused to accept it. After the second time I just walked. He got into the office on a Monday morning and thought I was just running late. Eventually after being unable to contact me he called a mutual friend who told him I was gone. He did try to f**k me up later, but a few well placed threats from me about reporting him to the relevant authorities regarding the way certain aspects of his business were carried out soon shut him up. Also, nowadays ex-employers are unlikely to give a bad reference for fear of being accused of lible.

My advice - WALK

aaf

However, at just 20 days standard, you may be short of the legal minimum - you'd have to check that.

I checked the government website and 20 is minimum.

Thanks for the feedback guys. I can't stay in this job anymore. I would ideally like to have a job to go to and I am waiting to hear back from a few places so fingers crossed. I might have to try to pick up some temping work or maybe do a few more nixers to keep me going. Anything is better than this abuse. Anyway, thanks.

babaduck

Yup - I get 20 days too, but as I work for a construction company who close over Christmas, 5 days go on those hols... leaving me with 15 days to play with.

My husband works in retail & I don't see him at all over Christmas so my week is a total waste of time

aaf

babaduck wrote:

Yup - I get 20 days too, but as I work for a construction company who close over Christmas, 5 days go on those hols... leaving me with 15 days to play with.

My husband works in retail & I don't see him at all over Christmas so my week is a total waste of time

Were you made aware of this before you signed your contract or is it written into your contract? How did you find out?

seamus

aaf wrote:

Were you made aware of this before you signed your contract or is it written into your contract? How did you find out?

They don't have to make you aware of it.

The law says that the company decides when you take your holidays - you don't tell them, they tell you. It's purely out of convenience that most companies allow people to schedule their own holidays. If an employer tells you that the office will be closed for x number of days, then they don't require your agreement, they can just take it out of your holidays. However, they are required to let you know one month in advance of the holidays, and must also take things such as family commitments and opportunity for rest/recreation - Extreme example: Say you work on an oil rig and boats only arrive twice a week to pickup/drop people off, then they couldn't make you take a single day midweek, where you'd just be arsing about the rig all day.

From the description you give of these idiots, it sounds much like they've probably broken quite a few labour laws - Maxmimum working hours and minimum notice for leave being just two. Your holiday entitlement is 20 days in the year. Note that if you took any sick days, they are not allowed count these as annual leave.

leeroybrown

As stated above they are entitled to tell you when your holdiays occur. You are entitled to a minimum number of days 20 and offhand I think there is a minimum length of holdiay they must concent to once a year if you wish. I've worked for companies where there were defined blocks of holdiays and they came out of the 20. Strictly speaking they're not doing anything wrong but they probably should have mad it clear how many days were annual leave.

Where the problems comes in is in the rest of their dealing with your hours. You're legally not supposed to work more than 48 hours in any week. Your contract clearly stpulates the means that you are to be reimbursed in some way for overtime. They're very clearly taking the piss and mistreating you.

I would rarely advise anyone to do this but if your situation is as clear as it appears then I would just leave. No notice period, no transfer of knowledge, nothing. Tell them clearly that that they were breaching your rights and abusing you and leave. It sounds like they'll give you an awful reference in any event.

TempestSabre

If I were you I'd say nothing, get another job, then leave just leave, just after you've been paid. its not like you'll get a good reference from those jokers.

Our man in Havana

Take them to court for constructive dismmisal. Just walk out without notice.

damnyanks

Did they pay you for the days they were closed?

aaf

damnyanks wrote:

Did they pay you for the days they were closed?

Yes, I'm pretty sure I got paid for normal month.

I won't be walking out of this job before my notice period expires as I need to get paid this month! I can see them pushing me to the limit though. I reckon I could be working Patricks Day now

leeroybrown wrote:

Your contract clearly stpulates the means that you are to be reimbursed in some way for overtime.

Indeed it does:

taken from contract wrote:

The hours of work will normally be from 9.00am to 5.30pm with an hour for lunch, Monday to Friday. However, it may be necessary to occasionally work outside these hours in which case compensation will be made by time off in lieu or overtime payment.

I have never received a cent for any overtime or overnight stay. And, as you can see, I have to fight to get time off in lieu. These last few weeks are gonna be tough. I reckon I'll have to keep a diary of all events that will happen just on the off chance it goes to court but I really don't want that. Cheers for the replies.

WizZard

Fair play to you for getting out of that job. I remember reading about it before Christmas.

Definitely keep a diary of events, better to be safe than sorry.