Comments on my play here please

ianmc38

Not long at the table.
Villain here seems quite aggressive pre and postflop.

[Mar 4 02:38:58] : Hand Start.
[Mar 4 02:38:58] : Seat 1 : Tiltinfish has $246.25
[Mar 4 02:38:58] : Seat 2 : flukes fla has $105.75
[Mar 4 02:38:58] : Seat 3 : fatman17 has $316.37
[Mar 4 02:38:58] : Seat 4 : shahidv has $310
[Mar 4 02:38:58] : Seat 5 : zoey744 has $152.25
[Mar 4 02:38:58] : Seat 6 : need$$now has $40
[Mar 4 02:38:58] : Tiltinfish is the dealer.
[Mar 4 02:38:59] : flukes fla posted small blind.
[Mar 4 02:38:59] : fatman17 posted big blind.
[Mar 4 02:39:04] : need$$now posted big blind.
[Mar 4 02:39:04] : Game [82476] started with 5 players.
[Mar 4 02:39:04] : Dealing Hole Cards.
[Mar 4 02:39:04] : Seat 1 : Tiltinfish has 8s 7s
[Mar 4 02:39:06] : zoey744 folded.
[Mar 4 02:39:08] : need$$now checked.
[Mar 4 02:39:11] : Tiltinfish called $2
[Mar 4 02:39:20] : flukes fla folded.
[Mar 4 02:39:25] : fatman17 raised $4
[Mar 4 02:39:28] : need$$now folded.
[Mar 4 02:39:42] : Tiltinfish called $4
[Mar 4 02:39:42] : Dealing flop.
[Mar 4 02:39:42] : Board cards [3d 5s 4h]
[Mar 4 02:39:54] : fatman17 bet $15
[Mar 4 02:40:09] : It's your turn.
[Mar 4 02:40:09] : Tiltinfish has 10 seconds to respond.
[Mar 4 02:40:12] : Tiltinfish called $15
[Mar 4 02:40:12] : Dealing turn.
[Mar 4 02:40:12] : Board cards [3d 5s 4h 2s]
[Mar 4 02:40:17] : fatman17 checked.
[Mar 4 02:40:26] : Tiltinfish checked.
[Mar 4 02:40:26] : Dealing river.
[Mar 4 02:40:26] : Board cards [3d 5s 4h 2s Jh]
[Mar 4 02:40:32] : fatman17 checked.
[Mar 4 02:40:41] : Tiltinfish bet $22

Villain here is also very aggressive. Have seen lots of raises and check raises followed by laydowns when someone returns the favour.

[Mar 4 02:44:33] : Hand Start.
[Mar 4 02:44:33] : Seat 1 : Tiltinfish has $264
[Mar 4 02:44:33] : Seat 2 : flukes fla has $98.75
[Mar 4 02:44:33] : Seat 3 : fatman17 has $309.37
[Mar 4 02:44:33] : Seat 4 : shahidv has $299
[Mar 4 02:44:33] : Seat 5 : zoey744 has $170.75
[Mar 4 02:44:33] : Seat 6 : need$$now has $22
[Mar 4 02:44:33] : need$$now is the dealer.
[Mar 4 02:44:36] : Tiltinfish posted small blind.
[Mar 4 02:44:36] : flukes fla posted big blind.
[Mar 4 02:44:36] : Game [82481] started with 6 players.
[Mar 4 02:44:36] : Dealing Hole Cards.
[Mar 4 02:44:36] : Seat 1 : Tiltinfish has Jd Kc
[Mar 4 02:44:40] : fatman17 folded.
[Mar 4 02:44:40] : shahidv folded.
[Mar 4 02:44:42] : zoey744 called $2
[Mar 4 02:44:42] : need$$now folded.
[Mar 4 02:44:44] : Tiltinfish called $1
[Mar 4 02:44:44] : flukes fla checked.
[Mar 4 02:44:45] : Dealing flop.
[Mar 4 02:44:45] : Board cards [Th Jc 7h]
[Mar 4 02:44:51] : Tiltinfish bet $4
[Mar 4 02:44:55] : flukes fla folded.
[Mar 4 02:44:56] : zoey744 called $4
[Mar 4 02:44:57] : Dealing turn.
[Mar 4 02:44:57] : Board cards [Th Jc 7h Qd]
[Mar 4 02:45:13] : Tiltinfish bet $6.75
[Mar 4 02:45:21] : zoey744 called $6.75 and raised $6.75
[Mar 4 02:45:32] : Tiltinfish called $6.75
[Mar 4 02:45:32] : Dealing river.
[Mar 4 02:45:32] : Board cards [Th Jc 7h Qd 8h]
[Mar 4 02:45:42] : Tiltinfish bet $20

cardshark202

Once you called on the flop I think you've committed yourself to betting on any scare card on the turn. Once you check here you have to either hit you middler and hope villian has a 7 or backdoor a flush and again hope to get paid. If you bet the turn you have a chance to win the pot there and then but also if you get called you have outs.

Hectorjelly

Limping 78s there is pretty bad, fold or raise. I wouldnt attempt to bluff fatman17 (if he is who I think he is). Hand 2 seems strange but maybe better in context of other hands.

Ollieboy

Hectorjelly wrote:

Limping 78s there is pretty bad, fold or raise. I wouldnt attempt to bluff fatman17 (if he is who I think he is). Hand 2 seems strange but maybe better in context of other hands.

How's limping with 78 suit bad? I think thats fine, you want to see a flop and hit a big hand and get paid, no point just picking up the bkinds there with a bluf

fuzzbox

Ollieboy wrote:

How's limping with 78 suit bad? I think thats fine, you want to see a flop and hit a big hand and get paid, no point just picking up the bkinds there with a bluf

Thats not quite true.

In order to flop a big hand AND get paid, somebody else needs to have a big hand too. If you have a good chance to steal the blinds (and the post) here, then why not go for it. 2.5 big blinds is a good return for 8-high.

breadmonkey

fuzzbox wrote:

Thats not quite true.

In order to flop a big hand AND get paid, somebody else needs to have a big hand too. If you have a good chance to steal the blinds (and the post) here, then why not go for it. 2.5 big blinds is a good return for 8-high.

Is there really any point in trying to steal the blinds in a cash game? (Serious question)

Ollieboy

breadmonkey wrote:

Is there really any point in trying to steal the blinds in a cash game? (Serious question)

Stealing blinds in a cash game is a very fishy play, your looking to hit big hands and get paid well, stealing blinds gets you into trouble, because you've got to keep betting on the flop etc.

IF you hit trips. two pairs, straight or even the flush with these cards and the guy as a ace etc, your going to get paid well. I've start to stop playing these cards do, because you've mostly got to call or bet to the river to get paid and than you mostly miss.lol

theres no reason to be stealing blinds in a cash game....

Ollieboy

fuzzbox wrote:

Thats not quite true.

In order to flop a big hand AND get paid, somebody else needs to have a big hand too. If you have a good chance to steal the blinds (and the post) here, then why not go for it. 2.5 big blinds is a good return for 8-high.

Sorry, plus if you raise, you cant call a reraise or even an all in, so your just given money away...

fuzzbox

breadmonkey wrote:

Is there really any point in trying to steal the blinds in a cash game? (Serious question)

If there was no blinds, then there would be no game. The reason for the action in a game is the blinds.

Most players use PTBB/100 as a signifier of win-rate. 5 PTBB/100 is considered excellent. 1 PTBB = 2 big blinds.

In this hand - you have an opportunity to acquire 1.25 PTBB in one hand. Yum yum

fuzzbox

Ollieboy wrote:

Sorry, plus if you raise, you cant call a reraise or even an all in, so your just given money away...

But if they fold, then you have just won money.

It cuts both ways - for you to be unable to call reraise, they first have to be make that reraise, it happens much less than you would think.

In this case - your hand is a good one to raise with because it is deceptive. If a big card or two hit the flop, then you can represent that, and if middly cards come - well then the flop has hit you and your opponent might become confused.

fuzzbox

Ollieboy wrote:

theres no reason to be stealing blinds in a cash game....

This is completely wrong.

ianmc38

Hand 1. I had been playing good poker, hadnt been caught bluffing once. He checked the turn and the river. That said to me that he had nothing. Why would he check a big hand into a conservative player. He eventually fodled.

Hand 2. I also took down this hand. the best part of the hand coming when she asked how big my flush was. She said she layed down a baby flush. I said "do you think i'd risk that much without the nuts"? Lol

Hectorjelly

Ollieboy wrote:

Stealing blinds in a cash game is a very fishy play, your looking to hit big hands and get paid well, stealing blinds gets you into trouble, because you've got to keep betting on the flop etc.

IF you hit trips. two pairs, straight or even the flush with these cards and the guy as a ace etc, your going to get paid well. I've start to stop playing these cards do, because you've mostly got to call or bet to the river to get paid and than you mostly miss.lol

theres no reason to be stealing blinds in a cash game....

No offence, but this is totally and utterly wrong. All of poker is a battle for the blinds. In tournaments often blinds are more important, (because you get so shortstacked) but its a fallacy to suggest that they arent important in a cash game.

You raise 78s in lp because its a profitable situation to be in. (assuming you are a better player than the players in the blinds)If both the blinds fold then you have just won 1.5bbs. If either of them call then you get to play a raised pot in position with a disguised hand. If im playing in a game with a bad player to seats to my left I will raise his blind nearly every round with any half decent holding.

Limping in with 78s (or nearly anything) is a losing play in late position because open limping anything is bad play, and in early position its bad play because of the tendancy to flop draws which are impossible to play oop.

One of the greatest advantages to raising suited connectors in LP is that you get to control the hand, and you can give yourself freecards that you wouldnt ordinarily get.

fuzzbox

ianmc38 wrote:

Hand 1. I had been playing good poker, hadnt been caught bluffing once. He checked the turn and the river. That said to me that he had nothing. Why would he check a big hand into a conservative player. He eventually fodled.

Hand 2. I also took down this hand. the best part of the hand coming when she asked how big my flush was. She said she layed down a baby flush. I said "do you think i'd risk that much without the nuts"? Lol

Sorry didnt comment on the hands

I dont like the flop call in hand 1 with just a gutshot (unless you were planning to bluff the turn if he checked, and changed your mind when you hit a flush draw), but the river bluff is certainly profitable. He clearly has no hand.

I hate almost every street of the KJ hand - but nice job bluffing the river, although its quite a risky play, because villain seems strong.

breadmonkey

What does PTBB stand for?

Hectorjelly

breadmonkey wrote:

What does PTBB stand for?

Poker tracker BB, for some reason 1ptbb = 2bb.

fuzzbox

Hectorjelly wrote:

Poker tracker BB, for some reason 1ptbb = 2bb.

Its because poker tracker was originally developed for limit poker. And win rates are counted in terms of Big Bets and a big bet is twice the big blind.

breadmonkey

Most players use PTBB/100 as a signifier of win-rate. 5 PTBB/100 is considered excellent. 1 PTBB = 2 big blinds.

Could you explain this a bit please?

ianmc38

5PTBB/100 is excellent? Sweet. Im at 20.50 for Feb and March.

fuzzbox

breadmonkey wrote:

Could you explain this a bit please?

Ok - for those of you who do not use pokertracker - its a good thing to get.

Pokertracker counts your win rate in many ways, but the "standard" one that seems to be used is PTBB/100. That means that your win rate is expressed in the number of "poker tracker BB" per 100 hands. Since 1 "poker tracker BB" = 2 big blinds then your win rate is actually expressed in the number of (2 big blinds) you win per 100 hands you play.

If you win at 3 PTBB/100 at the $1/$2 level, then every 100 hands you play, you expect to have won 3 times (2 times $2). This is $12 per 100 hands you play. If you play 1000 hands in a session, then you expect to be up $120 on average.

A winrate of 5 PTBB/100 is considered very very good at a particular level.

ianmc38

breadmonkey wrote:

Is there really any point in trying to steal the blinds in a cash game? (Serious question)

:eek:

Is it really serious? Blind stealing is absolutely essential in cash and tourneys. You'll be surprised how many times you can steal 5-limpers blinds when playing 6-handed. At $1/$2, thats $10 per steal if the whole table limps. Even $5 is good with 1 limper and the blinds.

breadmonkey

ianmc38 wrote:

:eek:

Is it really serious? Blind stealing is absolutely essential in cash and tourneys. You'll be surprised how many times you can steal 5-limpers blinds when playing 6-handed. At $1/$2, thats $10 per steal if the whole table limps. Even $5 is good with 1 limper and the blinds.

I'm playing at very low stakes, so there is almost zero chance of everyone folding! NO MATTER WHAT!

Ollieboy

Hectorjelly wrote:

No offence, but this is totally and utterly wrong. All of poker is a battle for the blinds. In tournaments often blinds are more important, (because you get so shortstacked) but its a fallacy to suggest that they arent important in a cash game.

You raise 78s in lp because its a profitable situation to be in. (assuming you are a better player than the players in the blinds)If both the blinds fold then you have just won 1.5bbs. If either of them call then you get to play a raised pot in position with a disguised hand. If im playing in a game with a bad player to seats to my left I will raise his blind nearly every round with any half decent holding.

Limping in with 78s (or nearly anything) is a losing play in late position because open limping anything is bad play, and in early position its bad play because of the tendancy to flop draws which are impossible to play oop.

One of the greatest advantages to raising suited connectors in LP is that you get to control the hand, and you can give yourself freecards that you wouldnt ordinarily get.

I can agree with your point here and that situation can happen, but it can also happen that the player in the SB or BB can have a monster of a hand and milk you for 100. So now your down. I would rather play my starting hands, hit flops, outplay players and increase my bbs that way.

ex. it costs you 12 to sit at the table for 3 orbits, in that time you only win 1 hand, but that hand is 50 pot, so you can be up 38 by play quality hands.

I agree with your assessment of the hand, but if we all play the same, it would be a boring game, so saying I'm utterly wrong isn't correct and no offence taken. But stealing blinds is a way of getting yourself into trouble.

Also, I would start to notice that the guy in late position is playing any marginal hands and I would defend against this or trap.

But I'm not a cash player by nature, so I'll conceded the point to those that our cash players

Hectorjelly

Ollieboy wrote:

but it can also happen that the player in the SB or BB can have a monster of a hand and milk you for 100. So now your down.

They will have to play their hand out of position, so the chance of them milking you for your stack is remote.

Ollieboy wrote:

I would rather play my starting hands, hit flops, outplay players and increase my bbs that way.

ex. it costs you 12 to sit at the table for 3 orbits, in that time you only win 1 hand, but that hand is 50 pot, so you can be up 38 by play quality hands.

??? This is crazy. Raising 67s on the button doesnt preclude you from playing quality hands. Either its profitable or its not.

Ollieboy wrote:

I agree with your assessment of the hand, but if we all play the same, it would be a boring game, so saying I'm utterly wrong isn't correct and no offence taken. But stealing blinds is a way of getting yourself into trouble.

Its a way of getting yourself into trouble if your a tournament player who cant fold top pair, or if you try 4 barrell bluffs more than occasionaly. Otherwise its a way to be more profitable than the the tight passive nutpeddlers.

You are entirely wrong btw, whether or not its boring is irrelevant

Ollieboy wrote:

Also, I would start to notice that the guy in late position is playing any marginal hands and I would defend against this or trap.

The worst thing you can do is to try and trap someone on the button who is a good player and raising your blinds with a wide range. You should simply let them have most of your blinds and reraise them from time to time. Trying to fight them back by calling hands out of position is going to be unprofitable, and slowplaying big pairs is a route to busto

breadmonkey

fuzzbox wrote:

A winrate of 5 PTBB/100 is considered very very good at a particular level.

Hang on, I've been thinking about this. Say I'm playing at .10/.20, you're telling me that $1 profit for every 100 hands is "excellent"?? That just doesnt seem right? How long, on average, would it take to play 100 hands?

Hectorjelly

breadmonkey wrote:

Hang on, I've been thinking about this. Say I'm playing at .10/.20, you're telling me that $1 profit for every 100 hands is "excellent"?? That just doesnt seem right? How long, on average, would it take to play 100 hands?

About an hour and a half. That figure is based on average players and 100bbs. So at .10/.20 you might be able to get a much higher figure, but at 1/2 and higher anything over 5PTBB is excellent.

breadmonkey

I still dont get it. $1/$2 players, the best of them, are only making $10 an hour? I find it hard to believe.

Hectorjelly

breadmonkey wrote:

I still dont get it. $1/$2 players, the best of them, are only making $10 an hour? I find it hard to believe.

As mentioned above, 5PTbb is 10bb/100. SO thats about $15/16 an hour playing 1 table. I ran at over 11ptbb for the 10k hands I have at 12.

ianmc38

Ive read alot about playing suited connectors on 2+2 and the general consensus is limping with them is neutral, based on 50k+ data sets. Raising with them using the same numbers of hhs is very much +EV apparently.

I vary between the 2. Based on my PT stats, i do very well with them, even though i don't alwats open raise with them.

As for PT i'm 20.5 BB/100 over 3k hands at 1/2, though I assume that's just a good run, as I'm a long way behind HJs level. At 0.50/1 i was 28.8BB/100 over 2k hands.

Bizarrely at 0.25/0.50, I was 12BB/100 over 4k hands?

Hectorjelly

You really need 25k+ plus hands to have a good idea of your true rate. 2k is a drop in the ocean

breadmonkey

Sorry, I forgot it was 2xBB, and that you can play a few tables, and.....I am an idiot.