The Mount For RBSD?

Musashi

Some guys have had some ideas on other boards as to how BJJ could be used for RBSD. I just wonder if our lads have any ideas as to prove/disprove their ideas? I'll just quote some of them here and we can discuss like rational beings ok?

"One thing I learned in Rio that might surprise some folks is to avoid the mount during a real confrontation, with the knee-on-chest being preferable. That way, you avoid being too tied down with one opponent, in case you suddenly find yourself dealing with other attackers."

"We also use the "modified" mount, where you straddle the opponent with one of your knees on the ground and your other foot flat on the ground. The posture looks like you are kneeling on one knee with the opponent squeezed between your knee and the other heel."

"It's pretty easy to get up from here, and a bit more stable than the knee-on-chest ride."

"Agreed about the full mount.... It's much harder to ride for beginners than it first appears. We teach it, and then progress into "higher" mounts for weapons/escape integration."

"You can also modify the mount by placing one of your knees on top of your opponent's sternum while keeping your other knee on the ground. Kinda like a hybrid mount/knee-on-chest. Gotta be careful in training though, due to the potential for injuring the one being mounted."

"Hatmaker likes that a lot, too. A bridge attempt often brings the knee on the chest up into the throat or jaw. If you start to lose the knee on body due to being bucked, you just reposition to a normal mount."

"In a recent phone conversation it was mentioned that closed guard might restrict weapon access for the guy in your guard. This is true, but once you've been ground and pounded you'll know beyond doubt, that limiting weapon access with a closed guard is momentary. Once he knocks you out with ground and pound or picks you up and slams you head first into the nearest fixed object because your legs lock you to him, you'll realize the limitations"

"While the broken bottle theory is often repeated as a mantra for "why you shouldn't fight on the ground" it provides zero recognition of the fact that it may not be your choice, that many fights will end up going there despite your efforts to prevent them from doing so, and that if you were fighting in that environment the more time you have spent ground fighting on the mat will allow you to better control the fight to keep from going there, or at least to keep from going there in a bad position or in a spot that presents an additional hazard like broken glass, etc."

"One-dimensional guard-pulling in MMA is possibly on its last legs, anyway---Randy Couture recently was reported as predicting that submissions would be very rare in MMA within five years, simply because they are getting harder and harder to use on trained fighters and because the striking is getting more and more devastating. We'll probably see kimura attempts and so on used in barrage-attack format to set up the sit-outs and hip-heists and so on; i.e., more of a true hybrid ground game that combines a lot of power, speed, and scrambling from wrestling with the smooth transitions, technical submission attacks, and overall use of the legs and hips that you find in jits. Submissions attempts might not be expected to work, but they might be effective at opening the window for an escape or a striking attack.

Re: pins and losing fights. I think that this is another reason why guys coming from judo and wrestling backgrounds often find it easier to transition to integrated work than does that particular type of sport BJJ guy who almost always pulls guard and still believes that the guard is a dominant/favorable position to be in outside of sport jits (not all sport jits guys are like this). If your goal is to put someone down very hard and then stand up for the stomp party, to deploy a firearm, or just to get off the X, you start to appreciate the ability to get the takedown without having to compromise all of your mobility options as a trade-off (i.e., pulling guard pre-emptively). Having a guard game is critical and should not be undervalued, but it is probably going to be a survival play rather than a good place to be. As Marc Laimon says, "My guard game is to get back to my feet." "

Thoughts, comments or refutation all equally welcomed as this is an area I need to learn more about. So I'm looking to the BJJ/MMA guys for cogent arguement as to what to learn? Is Kav. still a mamber here? I can understand he's a busy guy, and rightfully so. He is also the main man in regards to BJJ on this Island, so his input is appreciated. That's not to say that Pearse or Colm are not valued members of our little community either! All input is welcome lads, please fire away!

Colm_OReilly

Some good points there, briefly: From the ISR program they teach the positions of zhoo zhitsu slightly varied, and knee ride is a great on to control, look around, hop up, and then soccer kick the hell out of him! (Maybe I got carried away there)

The broken glass paragraph is spot on, you don't want to be on the ground in a street fight. You also don't want to be in a fight in the first place!

On the subject of subs becoming less dominant in MMA it would be interesting to see a quantitive analysis of how UFC and Pride matches have been decided year on year over the last few years, to see if there is a trend.

Roper

Musashi wrote:

Is Kav. still a mamber here? I can understand he's a busy guy, and rightfully so. He is also the main man in regards to BJJ on this Island, so his input is appreciated.

I'd say John is just a little busy right now trying to get his gym opened and running. Give him a break!

john kavanagh

yeah but what if....maybe....but couldn't he.....and what if they....weapons....biting.....eyes....

train BJJ hard for a couple of years, get yourself to a competitive purple belt level and then none of that will mean anything - have fun with your training - smile more - GET IN SHAPE - drink more water - smile more -

to be honest guys i'm posting very rarely on the forums lately as the discussions of late have just gotten ridiculous

i've said over the last couple of months all i have to say on training methods - my door is always open for anyone who is sincere in testing their training methods.

have fun guys:D

columok

Geoff Thompson wrote:

If people train really hard in the martial arts and go into the arts that are not questioned, like judo, boxing, wrestling, thai – the really good physical arts – they will develop an artillery that will be so good they will be able to walk away from situations.

John Kavanagh wrote:

train BJJ hard for a couple of years, get yourself to a competitive purple belt level and then none of that will mean anything

Are we seeing a pattern here?

Musashi

columok wrote:

Are we seeing a pattern here?

I'd say of course we are, there's only so many ways to fight, and only so many people doing it. Eventually it all comes out the same. However you get there we all know there's no "winner" in a fight. Just being involved hurts you as a person, regardless of physical damage. So we can agree the training to fight, even being good at it, is one thing. Actually liking to do it on a regular basis is something else. The legal ramifications, the time and hassle involved, and the Karma (it all rolls around ) means we are better off not fighting. Like Mark McYoung said, you don't see many old and unscarred "Street-fighters".

Even Musashi at the end of his career retired to a cave to paint and meditate.
Devote more time to art now and your ahead of the game

(I like photography myself, 35mm Canon EOS 5 mainly)

Millionaire

I noticed where Geoff Thompson, said he does not do any physical martial arts any more, and all he does now is weight training, Yoga, and Meditation.

MaxBax

we all go a bit nutty when we get older.

vasch_ro

Colm_OReilly wrote:

Some good points there, briefly: From the ISR program they teach the positions of zhoo zhitsu slightly varied, and knee ride is a great on to control, look around, hop up, and then soccer kick the hell out of him! (Maybe I got carried away there)

.

considering the ISR matrix is designed for law enforcement ,I would agree you did get carried away!:)

Colm_OReilly

Read you Macchiavelli vasch, punishment should be so terrible and merciless so as to fear no retribution!

If ya smell what the Mod is cookin'!

FiannaGym.com

I cant see the pint of the mount for the street. If your mounted your pounding the guys face in, or your controling him, maybe wiating for the popo to arrive. In both cases you just want stright up simple mount. Of course why you would do either seems strange, like I always say... if you can avoid the punches, take him donw, and mount him why didnt you just run away?

Peace