used car question ,,

NeVeR

My sister just bought a new car,, No NCT on it. myself. my uncle and my sister went to have a look at it in the garage,, big garage not a private sale.

he said he would guarantee it for the NCT so we where happy with that..

My sister and her friend went up to collect it today. and after it was paid for he pointed out a small crack in the windscreen. and said it will need to be fised if it was to pass the NCT ,, my sister said thats ok you said you would guarantee it.. then he said no i onyl guarantee the engine..... now what can i do ?? my uncle that viewed it the 1st time and heard him say this is a member of dublin city council and a local councilor.

What do you think we should do ?

jayok

Demand your money back. This is controlled by your consumer rights. If they product was not in the condition you expected and/or not as described then you are perfectly entitled to a replacement or refund.

If he gives you any guff about "well, I can't do that" or "you inspected yourself" tell him you are invoking your rights as a consumer and if he denies you these rights you will be seeking legal action.

I would take a heavy-hand approach here as obviously he knew about this before you bought it and would only tell you after the fact. From what you say this vehicle is not in a condition such that it would pass the NCT. As such it was not as "described". Don't worry about the verbal thing the Office of Consumer affairs sides with the consumer on these things and actually sees sense!

(You can probably tell I've been down this route before!)

colm_mcm

get the windscreen replaced free from your insurance,

If the garage was a memner of the SIMI, you will have signed an order form stating that you were happy with tyres, glass, trim, and general condition of the car in relation to it's age. If the chip is in the drivers view, it may fail the NCT, but you can't expect the garage to replace every little thing that goes wrong with the car.

mike65

You gotta be careful when it comes to guarentees on used cars, often it'll only cover engine/gearbox. Its good to clarrify exactly whats being covered and for how long.

Mike.

unkel

colm_mcm wrote:

you can't expect the garage to replace every little thing that goes wrong with the car.

The garage guaranteed the car would pass the NCT, so yes, you can expect them to fix FOA anything it would fail on. That the guarantee was put verbally and not in writing should make no difference, especially as it was witnessed

colm_mcm wrote:

get the windscreen replaced free from your insurance

Now why commit fraud and let the $tealer get away with it? I'm firmly with jayok on this one

TempestSabre

NeVeR wrote:

...
he said he would guarantee it for the NCT so we where happy with that..

I'd ask for a refund right now. if the guy can't be trusted to stick to his word over something as basic as the NCT I'd walk away. Hes broken the verbal contract you had when agreeing to buy the car. As soon as he refuses, hand him a letter refusing the car as not described. IE covered by the garage for cost incurred to pass the NCT..

colm_mcm

Put the car through the NCT, see if it passes. If it doesn't then bring it back to him. I fear that you don't have anything in writing

bazz26

NeVeR wrote:

My sister just bought a new car,, No NCT on it. myself. my uncle and my sister went to have a look at it in the garage,, big garage not a private sale.

he said he would guarantee it for the NCT so we where happy with that..

My sister and her friend went up to collect it today. and after it was paid for he pointed out a small crack in the windscreen. and said it will need to be fised if it was to pass the NCT ,, my sister said thats ok you said you would guarantee it.. then he said no i onyl guarantee the engine..... now what can i do ?? my uncle that viewed it the 1st time and heard him say this is a member of dublin city council and a local councilor.

What do you think we should do ?

To be honest if I was buying that car and the dealer guaranteed me that it would pass the NCT verbally I would tell him to put it through the NCT and if it passes I'll buy it from him. If the dealer is so confident that it would pass then he should have no issue paying the €50 or so for this in order to make a sale.

To answer your question I don't know where you stand legally regarding verbal agreements.

Usually when I buy a used car I get the dealer to put on the receipt, with the garage letter heading, the duration of the guarantee and a description of what is covered before handing over any money.

colm_mcm

bazz26 wrote:

Usually when I buy a used car I get the dealer to put on the receipt, with the garage letter heading, the duration of the guarantee and a description of what is covered before handing over any money.

That's a good idea, at least you know where you stand then.

unkel

bazz26 wrote:

To be honest if I was buying that car and the dealer guaranteed me that it would pass the NCT verbally I would tell him to put it through the NCT and if it passes I'll buy it from him

Absolutely and to extend on that I would automatically distrust anyone selling a car with an NCT coming up or expired that claims "it will pass no bother"

TempestSabre

unkel wrote:

Absolutely and to extend on that I would automatically distrust anyone selling a car with an NCT coming up or expired that claims "it will pass no bother"

Me too.

Anan1

AFAIK, when a garage sells a car it has to be of "merchantable quality", ie fit for purpose. Ring consumer affairs, and the SIMI.

colm_mcm

chances are she signed a SIMI form and ticked the box saying she was happy with the condition of the glass. Hasn't got a leg to stand on unfortunately

jayok

colm_mcm wrote:

chances are she signed a SIMI form and ticked the box saying she was happy with the condition of the glass. Hasn't got a leg to stand on unfortunately

Not true, there is such a thing as an "unfair contract" and these are not enforceable. Happy or not with the glass the condition as described that it will "pass the NCT" is not true, therefore it was sold under false pretenses. Some silly SIMI document does not by-pass consumer law.

colm_mcm

jayok wrote:

Not true, there is such a thing as an "unfair contract" and these are not enforceable. Happy or not with the glass the condition as described that it will "pass the NCT" is not true, therefore it was sold under false pretenses. Some silly SIMI document does not by-pass consumer law.

If you have read a SIMI order form, you will know that it is a legal document

jayok

colm_mcm wrote:

If you have read a SIMI order form, you will know that it is a legal document

Equally, you will understand that it is limited by Irish law which takes precedence. The SIMI contract is a "private" contract any binding within the contract cannot deny you your legal rights. i.e. a organization like SIMI cannot get you to sign away your legal rights in favour of a dealer, industry, etc.

unkel

colm_mcm wrote:

If you have read a SIMI order form, you will know that it is a legal document

It is a legal contract, but the verbal commitment that the car is guaranteed to pass the NCT is also a legal contract. With a witness the legal postition of the buyer in this case is strong imho

Thankfully the law is not as simplistic as a SIMI form stating that if it don't work, you're fooked

maidhc

Judges (being sensible upstanding people) dont generally like sharp practice by used car salesmen.

Unless the SIMI form has "TRADE SALE" written all over it in big writing, the consumer can expect the garage to stand over their verbal representations, especially when it concerns the safety of the car... a car which fails the NCT is unsafe in the eyes of officialdom.

junkyard

The SIMI document is very specific and would be regarded as a legal document, small print and all. Verbal agreements aren't worth the paper they're not written on. Remember, caveat emptor, buyer beware.

unkel

junkyard wrote:

Verbal agreements aren't worth the paper they're not written on

LOL, I appreciate the punch, but a verbal agreement is as much of a legal contract as a written one

junkyard wrote:

Remember, caveat emptor, buyer beware.

For a private sale where it is sold as seen, yes. Does not apply to OP's situation where contracts are involved

junkyard

Caveat emptor applies to everything.;)

unkel

junkyard wrote:

Caveat emptor applies to everything.;)

Eh, nope

But of course any buyer of any good or service should do himself / herself a favour by making sure what they're buying is what they're buying

junkyard

It really is in the buyers best interest to ensure that everything is in order and take nothing for granted, anything agreed should be put in writing on headed paper, signed and witnessed. I can appreciate it may seem over the top but it would be in the buyers best interest. I have come across people with similar problems with houses and wills etc., and prevention is really better than the cure. If everything was so straightforward I'd be out of a job.:)

unkel

junkyard wrote:

prevention is really better than the cure

I couldn't agree more. If I'd be the buyer in the situation where the seller would verbally commit to the vehicle passing the NCT, I'd not commit to buying it until it has got the VRT cert

colm_mcm

In fairness, the salesman guarunteed it'd pass the NCT, unless the crack on the windscreen is in the drivers view, and causes the vehicle to fail the test, he doesn't have to repair it

bazz26

To be honest if the dealer is saying he will guarantee it will pass the NCT then why didn't he just put it through the NCT when selling it?

It only costs €50 and makes the car alot easier to sell.

It sounds to me like he told this buyer what they wanted to hear in order to make a sale and now he doesn't want to know.

A valuable lession to be learnt here:- always get these things stipulated in writing.

colm_mcm

depends on when the NCT is due, If it's for 6 months time he can't really do it now

junkyard

I think in fairness to most car dealers they would take the car back and check it out before the test and take the car to the NCT centre on the day. Most of them do down my way if thats what they agreed to do in the first place. But then I suppose we're all honest down here in Cork anyway.:rolleyes: