Celtic Poker: Warning, Stay Away

nikorami

So, I had to see for myself as I believe innocent until proven guilty. Well this bunch is GUILTY as hell.

First of all, we didn't start until after 6pm after all the hoopla about being there early to "avoid disappointment".

Blinds start as 50/100(already a joke) with 25 min levels. You would think this would be good...but not...SELF DEAL....8 to 10 hands max per level.

The quality of play was terrible...the bad players(and I mean bad) had the advantage...they were calling each other with anything..before I knew it they all had massive stacks. There were two othe players at my table aside from me. We didn't play many hands, and when we did we won. These guys would bet 2000 into a 400 pot. Call with any pair. Lucky for me my hands held up when called, one other guy did not fair so well and rebought three times and los them all.

By the time the freezeout started we were able to top up(10,000) not bad for me as I had 55000...now up to 65K...but was still one of the smaller stacks. With blinds 2000-4000 I pick up AJ suited in the big blind. Fold all the way to the button who is just about to muck his hand and actually drops one card, then picks it up and decides to call. SB calls, so I like my AJ a lot....I raise it to 25000 total. The guy who was going to muck the first go around now calls my raise(LOL) and the SB fold. The flop comes J42 with the 42 in my suit. So its shove it allin with no hesitation...The guy says "I'm dealing so I'll call". Great I think. He turns over A4os...I am loving this. Turn a K and river a 4. No flush and this guy jumps up and down and starts to goad me and saying he totally outplayed me and I should have thought twice before messing with him. LOL. By the way there must have been 250+ players still left.

Well on to the real scam...311 players, 100buyin, 3 rebuys at 25each and 1 topup at 25. From all indications almost everyone maxed out. This means they collected approx. 60,000euro. 1st place was 10,000euro and the total payout was less than 20,000euro. They pocketed close to 40000euro. UNREAL!

One last funny story on how much of a joke it was...at my table 5 of the players(all the bad ones) commented and agreed that HoldEm was not real poker and how 5card draw was a "better poker" and "you can value your cards better" and was "true poker skill".

Bottom Line...I will never play again and I advise anyone interested in real poker to stay away.

By the way, I got home and played a $10 MTT Turbo online and took 2nd netting $700 for my 1hr.

fade2black

If you had've looked down a few threads you would have seen more of the same.

ianmc38

Well if they took twice the payout, I'd have had an angry lynch mob at the ready, to hunt down the organisers. That is sick.

NickyOD

And yet the number of players they get is still growing and growing. How much longer are we going to moan about the CPT and do notihng about it? The last thing we need is a repeat of the Cavendish down here and if it does happen its most likely to be idiots like the CPT's fault. I think its about time we put a group of people together to campaign against them. The only reason they are getting the numbers is because the players that go don't know any better. If we get a group of boardsters together to hand out flyers at their tournaments to inform people they are being ripped off by the CPT, the organisers won't be long changing their ways.

jem

Nicky,
people do know the difference, there is another tread where vegas nights were holding a real tourney in carlow and no one turned up. likewise the crowds that pokerevents are geting in kilkenny/limerick would be dramatically lower that the cpt why? IMHO the big reasons are-
1) guaranteed prize money- fcuk the % thereis €10k at least being paid out.
2) their set up looks very professional(i am sure that PE are as well.
3) they were the first of its type around and people are used to going( like suporting manu, you know its a waste of time but some do anyway).
Unfortunatly that is the way.

ianmc38

jem wrote:

1) guaranteed prize money- fcuk the % thereis €10k at least being paid out.
2) their set up looks very professional(i am sure that PE are as well.
3) they were the first of its type around and people are used to going( like suporting manu, you know its a waste of time but some do anyway).
Unfortunatly that is the way.

These things do not matter a flying fcuk. these guys are blatant thieving cowboys and should not be allowed to tarnish the reputation of poker by holding these scams. As Nicky said, it's people like these that will end up causing another Cavendish style incident down here.

Hitman Actual

ianmc38 wrote:

These things do not matter a flying fcuk. these guys are blatant thieving cowboys and should not be allowed to tarnish the reputation of poker by holding these scams. As Nicky said, it's people like these that will end up causing another Cavendish style incident down here.

Agreed. The thing is, as far as I can tell, CPT dont believe that they are really doing anything wrong. They come from a traditional draw poker background, where giving a guaranteed payout and pocketing the rest are acceptable to everyone involved.

It's scary that they are so popular now, though. They're a f**king blight on Irish poker.

jem

Ian ,
I was trying to explain why IMO people go to the cpt. i wasn't tustifying them or indeed defending them, they are big enought to do that themselves.
There is a load of things that I don't like about their tourneys but they can't be blamed for the poor standard of players. I personally don't care whether or not there is a dealer and many don't either, infact with these type of tourneys you are better off without them as there is more chance of out of turn bets with a dealer, good players wont but drunk poor players look to see who has the pack and bet from there.

NickyOD

jem wrote:

Nicky,
people do know the difference, there is another tread where vegas nights were holding a real tourney in carlow and no one turned up. likewise the crowds that pokerevents are geting in kilkenny/limerick would be dramatically lower that the cpt why? IMHO the big reasons are-
1) guaranteed prize money- fcuk the % thereis €10k at least being paid out.
2) their set up looks very professional(i am sure that PE are as well.
3) they were the first of its type around and people are used to going( like suporting manu, you know its a waste of time but some do anyway).
Unfortunatly that is the way.

Pokerevents have been around loinger than CPT.

Their set up isn't professional. It's crap.

Thew palyers may see a guaranteed prizepool, but are oblivious to the fact that it is usually capped and most of the time should be much bigger.

jem

NickyOD wrote:

Pokerevents have been around loinger than CPT.

Their set up isn't professional. It's crap.

Thew palyers may see a guaranteed prizepool, but are oblivious to the fact that it is usually capped and most of the time should be much bigger.

CPT were the first around here, not the first tourney in the midlands but the first regular big one. In fact in many areas they are the only one.
I said their "set up looks very professional"
and yes a lot of them don't give a dam about whether or not the pool is capped or not.
I am not defending CPT in any way. I am just trying to explain why I think they are sucessful. and they are sucessful. they regularly have over 200 players and I belive they had over 300 last sunday night. Theya re obviously doing something right.

Culchie

jem wrote:

They are obviously doing something right.

Their Tournament Director must be a hypnotist.

Fathead

they'll also have a TV crew at there next event which is only going to make them more popular.

Culchie

Fathead wrote:

they'll also have a TV crew at there next event which is only going to make them more popular.

Foolish of them. Their egos will be the end of them.

Coillte_Bhoy

Isn't it time to take these cowboys on? Anyone here got any media contacts in the press, tv or radio that also has an interest in poker and that might be interested in doing an expose on them. Even to get the issue aired on a radio phone in would be a start and lets see them come on and defend themselves debating against someone who is doing it right and is above board. e.g. Fintan or someone from pokerevents.I have no connection with pokerevents but they are they are the only similar type tourneys i have played in and thier set up is very professional and transparent.

I do however have a vested interest in the whole issue as we have recently started running pub tourneys in Mayo and are trying to be open and upfront about everything but most of the lads here won't here a word said against cpt. They simply don't care what cpt are raking in, what the blind structure is etc. they just see the big €5k 1st prize.

The one bright light perhaps is that when we run bigger buy in tourneys e.g. €50 entry +€25 rebuys or €75 freezeouts the players are always amazed at the size of the prize pool but we are totally upfront and if they wish they they can see exactly what our take is. Anytime anyone comments on it i always compare us to the cpt so hopefully they might begin to think about the issue a little more. If we could afford to take a hit i would like to run a tourney with a guaranteed prize pool just to see if there was a difference in numbers but cant take that risk at the moment.

Ste05

I firmly believe the only way to get this kind of thing stopped is to educate the general public. Not on the nuances of Poker, or the difference between a reg. fee and a decent % from the Prize Pool. But to expose these people for what they are.

If Primetime, or the likes did an expose on these lads and their ilk, there would be uproar. Imagine if it was publically exposed that these lads were taking €30,000 a night and only paying out €10,000. (Is this about right??)

The only problem with this is you'd need a strong interview with a representative from Poker Events, GJP, the Fitz, The SE and the Merrion to show that this kind of thing is not common practice and that the usual Poker Tournaments you hear about are completely above board and it is just these particular Cowboys that have been riping off the public for the last x number of months/ years.

But do we want this kind of negative exposure??

EDIT: Just saw Coillte Bhoy's comment and I also have no vested interest in this at all.

Coillte_Bhoy

Should this thread not be moved to the main forum? Just a thought as i thought this sub forum was exclusively for tournament announcements, reports etc. This issue is of concern to the whole poker community

Hitman Actual

A simple way to start would be to submit a letter to the various local newspapers in the week before an event is on in that locality (most local papers have letter pages, I assume). I shouldn't have any trouble getting one published in the Westmeath papers, but at this stage it probably looks like I've got a personal vendatta against CPT.

a-k-47

they'll be going by helicopter to there next event thieving bastards.. how thick can 300 ppl be ffs.. good idea to try and expose them through media, im sure nickyOD has plenty of contacts

pppspecial

who are these guys. where do they operate from. i want to know.

VEGAS NIGHTS

Culchie wrote:

Their Tournament Director must be a hypnotist.

ROFL

jem

While I agree with much of what has been written above I personally don't think we should raise the head too much, If there was a prime time/liveline debate on it whats the bets that guardi all over the country would close down tourneys/ casino's and where would be then.The likes of vegas nights etc would be closed down with pubs/hotels not allowing them use their premises.I know one hotel that due to their legal advise turned down a large tourney already.

We would be left with home games and those willing to take the chance, teh latter would realy screw the thing.
What could be done is what nicky sugested earlier with the handouts etc IMHO the only real way would be for the likes of PPP or boyle sports to take them on head to head.

Culchie

jem wrote:

IMHO the only real way would be for the likes of PPP or boyle sports to take them on head to head.

No it's not.

Education and word of mouth is the way to get fairness applied across the board, not get corporations involved.
I can't see bookmaking businesses be able to portray themselves as guardians of righteousness, and I certainly can't see how if they did, the press of general public would listen to them.

The game is about the players, not corporations.

You can already see the bad value pub tourneys organisers struggling with numbers now in Dublin, because people are copping on, and they are supporting the likes of V.N and Green Joker weekly events instead.... the same will happen with CPT.
This shower make me puke, it's disgusting what they are doing, but information in the form of a newsletter or pamphlet is what they need... not PR spin.

jem

What I meant was it is only someone with money could afford to take them on head to head

Imposter

I wouldn't be going to national media about this either because as Jem says nobody wants the guards to shut down all poker tournaments and probably casinos too. The leaflets sound like the way to go.

If one of the good organisers stepped in to run a similar tournament (buy-in wise) in the same town a week or so later then it might open these people's eyes and could be used to get the message across using leaflets and word of mouth.

dingle

I was at a Poker Events tourny in Limerick last night and got talking to some bloke during the break. He wasn't that experienced in the poker scene (like myself) and he started to tell me how the Celtic Poker events were much better value. He reckoned that with all rebuys, the cost of the two tourneys were roughly the same but that the prize fund for the CP event was much bigger. I tried to explain the difference but I'm pretty sure he wasn't convinced.

That's the kind of thinking you're up against.

Don't think for a minute I'm defending CP but I guess if you don't fully understand all the nuances in some way it's kind of logical. ie.

Poker Events c.€100 cost, prize fund €6000 to €8000
Vs
Celtic Poker c.€100 cost, prize fund €12000-€15000

If you were newish to the poker scene and didn't know any better this is all you'd see. A few months ago if I had seen a CP ad versus a Poker Events ad I'd have gone to the CP event. Thankfully I discovered Boards before I started going to live events and I've only gone to properly run events like Poker Events or the Poker Lounge

5starpool

And did he not realise that it is easier to get through a field of 70 than a field of 200 when the prizes are only 50% bigger for the cpt? Some people...grrr...

VEGAS NIGHTS

ii

VEGAS NIGHTS

Imposter wrote:

I wouldn't be going to national media about this either because as Jem says nobody wants the guards to shut down all poker tournaments and probably casinos too. The leaflets sound like the way to go.

If one of the good organisers stepped in to run a similar tournament (buy-in wise) in the same town a week or so later then it might open these people's eyes and could be used to get the message across using leaflets and word of mouth.

I have taken this from a different thread



By Vegas Nights

Poker is huge in the mid-lands!!!! They are playing tournys with CPT etc. I organised a tournament in Carlow for last Thrs. I had three news paper adds, over 50 posters around the town and an add in two different local newsletters. In my advertising I expressed the difference between what we do and these multi-rebuy tournys. I explained how the tourny was E25 entry ( E20 into prize pool & E5 reg). This was a one rebuy OR top up with max spend E50. Also how one rebuy will encourage tight play and over time this will improve poker skills and become a more enjoyable game.

We had a fantastic venue which realy suited poker athmosphere. I explained the total transparency with funds in terms of no. of chips in play = total cash with break down.


Howmany showed up?... "nobody" not even one person.

Don't get me wrong....... while it was dissapointing to make the journy etc. I'm not complaining here. I'm making the point that these people don't konw the difference. They are attracted to these tournys by the big prize pools advertised and are not aware of the fundamental elliments that make a quality poker tournament.

As a wise old man once said- "Ours is not to reason why, Ours is just to do and die".

sunzz

they are actually on tommorow night in my town, SLIGO. I do believe they have a tv crew coming which will only add to the amount of people that wan't to come.

Personally from what I've read over the board the last while will easily make me stay away from this.

good luck to anyone that goes.

The C Kid

Why does anyone feel the need to do anything?

Don't educate the fishes, and if they keep going to such a tournament let them. Its their loss.

hoolamoppa

Hey Sunzz, Many fools at the CPT event in the southern last night ??? u hear anything ???

AceHigh

Have read all of the posts here, many valid comments. I myself played in the CPT a few weeks ago in Waterford. Turnout not great , but enjoyed the night all the same. Didn't have much luck though.
My point is that I'm in business myself and from a business point of view they are A) providing a service that people are looking for. Have a large enough pot prizepool to attract the crowds. Now when they are getting good crowds already with the current prizepool why would they want to spend more. If people don't like they profits they are making vote with your feet.

Question: How many AIB customers who have contributed to this forum, when hearing that AIB had made over €5m profit per working day last year, have changed banks since?

I'm not saying that I don't see peoples points but the harsh reality of it is that although this may be pleasure for most it is a business for the owners of CPT.