WIT apply for University Status - PLEASE SIGN PETITION

Freddie59

Folks,

Please send this to everyone in your address book. It's been started on www.upthedeise.com and, if you feel strongly about it, please sign it.

http://www.petitiononline.com/watuniv/petition.html

It's a must for Waterford City.

Thanks in advance.

Freddie.

theblaahead

Good man yourself Freddie. I was just coming onto this forum to start a thread for this petition! WIT deserves University status, its held in such high regard in ireland. My degree from there enabled me to get my reseach post in UL to do my Ph-D. Mary Hannafin and co need to recognise the need for a university in the south-east because in the long run its the people of the south-east who'll suffer. A university brings jobs to an area. Its all well and good saying how well recognised WIT is in ireland but on the international front being a University will attract so much more investment.
Thanks

merlante

Actually I'd say the opposite about the IT. It's grand telling outsiders that ITs are just as good as Universities, but they just aren't held in the same esteem within Ireland. That is a fact. Hanafin is one of a long list of academics and politicians who have told the lie that the IT is equal to but different to the Universities. This is definitely NOT the case!

In any case, ITs are only allowed to have technical degrees. That's no arts, medicine, etc. Universities have full flexibility in choosing which courses to run. There is even talk of preventing ITs from doing research and stopping WIT from awarding PHDs. It's a disgrace. Especially since WIT has the largest research group in the country in TSSG, www.tssg.ie.

I had to leave Waterford to do my degree, as did many other people I know. The people I knew in Waterford have been scattered to the four winds. They either can't get back because of the lack of high skilled jobs or else they have become established in their new locale, usually in a university city.

Is it any wonder that Waterford is not growing as fast as the other cities economically, or in terms of population. :mad:

mike65

On line petitions are read by no-one I'm afraid.

Kidnapping the Minister for Edumacation may be more effective.

Mike.

merlante

mike65 wrote:

On line petitions are read by no-one I'm afraid.

Kidnapping the Minister for Edumacation may be more effective.

Mike.

That's great Mike. :rolleyes:

mike65

Sorry but its true. (the first bit anyway.)

Mike.

merlante

mike65 wrote:

Sorry but its true. (the first bit anyway.)

Mike.

On its own it's worthless, what is worth something is the impression that everywhere people look, there is something being done and some avenue being pursued for the University. Any and all avenues must be pursued.

Also, people saying X, Y or Z won't work gives the opposition faith that if it doesn't happen people won't be too shocked. It wouldn't hurt just to stick the old name down and say nothing...

lilmissprincess

I was asking the career guidance teacher today about where I could study English in college, she mentioned all the Dublin universities, you can barely do it anywhere else. And like, I'm only in third year now, and the accomodation prices in Dublin are at a scary rate. What are they going to be like in 3,4 years time? I want to study in Waterford because I live in Wexford, and my grandparents and relatives live in Waterford, they can offer a spare room at any time, and the pure handiness of it. But I don't se why this is only coming up now...I mena, Waterford is one of the major cities of Ireland, have we not gained a right to a uni by now?

Rollo Tamasi

mike65 wrote:

Kidnapping the Minister for Edumacation may be more effective.

hey you. you robbed my line....edumacation is my word :mad:

Our man in Havana

Don't WIT confer degrees as it is? Are they 3rd party degrees? If they were upgraded would they still be conferring HETAC degrees?

Freddie59

mike65 wrote:

On line petitions are read by no-one I'm afraid.

Kidnapping the Minister for Edumacation may be more effective.

Mike.

We've got to start somewhere Mike.:)

Freddie59

theblaahead wrote:

Good man yourself Freddie. I was just coming onto this forum to start a thread for this petition! WIT deserves University status, its held in such high regard in ireland. My degree from there enabled me to get my reseach post in UL to do my Ph-D. Mary Hannafin and co need to recognise the need for a university in the south-east because in the long run its the people of the south-east who'll suffer. A university brings jobs to an area. Its all well and good saying how well recognised WIT is in ireland but on the international front being a University will attract so much more investment.
Thanks

Thanks blaahead. We're all in this together. As one who didn't get the opp to go to Third Level (but my kids are/will) we have to get off our arses not just for future educational needs, but for the knock-on effect to the City and surrounding region. I think your most impostant sentence above is "A university brings jobs to an area". End of story!:)

Aquos76

Freddie59 wrote:

I think your most important sentence above is "A university brings jobs to an area". End of story!:)

And it also brings more students to our city, who will no doubt cause more havoc for the residents of the nearby areas like Lismore Pk and Templers hall.

We all know that there is a precentage of students who dont give a toss about anything or anybody else. And this precentage is far greater than the 1% that the student union rep, referred to on Wlr last week

meldrew

mike65 wrote:

On line petitions are read by no-one I'm afraid.

Kidnapping the Minister for Edumacation may be more effective.

Mike.

Thamks for being so positive Mike , its no wonder we have nothing down here with that attitude

merlante

lilmissprincess wrote:

I was asking the career guidance teacher today about where I could study English in college, she mentioned all the Dublin universities, you can barely do it anywhere else. And like, I'm only in third year now, and the accomodation prices in Dublin are at a scary rate. What are they going to be like in 3,4 years time? I want to study in Waterford because I live in Wexford, and my grandparents and relatives live in Waterford, they can offer a spare room at any time, and the pure handiness of it. But I don't se why this is only coming up now...I mena, Waterford is one of the major cities of Ireland, have we not gained a right to a uni by now?

Previous campaigns have failed due to political infighting, insufficient work, lack of unity in the south south east, lack of political clout, blind civil-war voting, lack of confidence and self-belief, the city's poor profile nationally and the general, impenetrable negativity that pervaded the city and is only recently starting to lift.

The first lesson of Irish politics is that you don't get things just because you deserve them.

And yes, WIT do confer degrees, but just technical degrees and all their degrees must be approved by HETAC.

Rollo Tamasi

Aquos76 wrote:

And it also brings more students to our city, who will no doubt cause more havoc for the residents of the nearby areas like Lismore Pk and Templers hall.

pesky students and their havoc. tut tut

Freddie59

Aquos76 wrote:

And it also brings more students to our city, who will no doubt cause more havoc for the residents of the nearby areas like Lismore Pk and Templers hall.

We all know that there is a precentage of students who dont give a toss about anything or anybody else. And this precentage is far greater than the 1% that the student union rep, referred to on Wlr last week

I couldn't agree more - but it's off topic, so I'll probably get a rap for this. That is a separate issue which can be, IMO, rapidly sorted. When someone rents out a house they should be required to apply for planning permission and a licence for conversion from a domestic residence to a business, i.e. a boarding house. Regulations should be put in place to require the landlord to be responsible at all times to keep an orderly house (like a pub) and if he/she does not comply, the permission would be rescinded.

These students that behave in this manner are no different to those scum in O'Connell Street on Saturday last. They make people's lives hell, wreck property, and have scant regard for the law. Is there a difference? NO.

But not all students are the same - again it's a minority. Same old story. I think the residents may have hit on an idea with the protest though - it may be the way to go to bring pressure on the landlords.;)

mike65

Don't shoot the messenger! We've had the top man from Limerick University say in as clear a way as is possible that Waterford needs aUniveristy, the old NIHE having been upgraded he knows what he's on about. But did the minister listen? Nope. Plenty of agitation has been ongoing for well over a decade and its got us absolutly nowhere, I dont know what will persuade the government (any government) to change its tune. Whatever you do don't assume a FG/Lab admin would behave any differently once in power.

Mike.

meldrew

if anyone thinks a Lab/FG coalition in power would be beneficial to Waterford just remember two people Dick Spring and Niamh Bhreathnach and what they did to Waterford when they were in power , and dont forget Phil Hogan will probably be a minister and I cant see him doing anything for Waterford

Our man in Havana

Any university upgrade would be in name only.Change the name on the gate and their letterheads.

floyd333

I’ve studied In WIT full time and part time. I don’t agree that they should automatically have University Status. An upgrade should be on merit. From my experience the place is a mess. The college library shuts at 9 every night and 1 on as Saturday. .. it’s a joke. So many of the tutors are poorly qualified and there is a total lack of communication throughout the college. Sure WIT may have some nice new buildings and a fancy logo but that doesn’t mean they deserve a university.

I have to agree with Mike nobody really takes much notice of online petitions. Especially one that originates from a site liken up the deise.com. This is tacky, amateurish site and some of the content is downright offensive.

My advice to WIT: start acting like a University and you will get what you deserve eventually. As for the online petitioners find a more worthy cause to support.

mike65

I imagine funding is part of the problem - the WIT is I belive one of the worst resourced ITs on a per capita basis.

Mike.

Freddie59

floyd333 wrote:

I’ve studied In WIT full time and part time. I don’t agree that they should automatically have University Status. An upgrade should be on merit. From my experience the place is a mess. The college library shuts at 9 every night and 1 on as Saturday. .. it’s a joke. So many of the tutors are poorly qualified and there is a total lack of communication throughout the college. Sure WIT may have some nice new buildings and a fancy logo but that doesn’t mean they deserve a university.

I have to agree with Mike nobody really takes much notice of online petitions. Especially one that originates from a site liken up the deise.com. This is tacky, amateurish site and some of the content is downright offensive.

My advice to WIT: start acting like a University and you will get what you deserve eventually. As for the online petitioners find a more worthy cause to support.

Charming. Waterford City will, no doubt, be able to depend on your support 100%.:mad: I'm sure that, say, the NIHE and others like it, may have been in the same condition. So let me get this straight - you'd rather see us denied a University, because, in your opinion, it doesn't merit it? Doesn't everyone deserve an opportunity? Mind if I ask if you're from Waterford, and, if not, which County are you originally from?:)

floyd333

Freddie59 wrote:

Charming. Waterford City will, no doubt, be able to depend on your support 100%.:mad: I'm sure that, say, the NIHE and others like it, may have been in the same condition. So let me get this straight - you'd rather see us denied a University, because, in your opinion, it doesn't merit it? Doesn't everyone deserve an opportunity? Mind if I ask if you're from Waterford, and, if not, which County are you originally from?:)

I know many people who have studied in WIT and when asked about University status the reaction is nearly always the same, it’s not ready for an upgrade.
And let me get this straight Freddie59 it makes no difference what county I am from. The insular all Waterford anti Kilkenny etc. outlook does nothing for the area. Surrounding counties also need a University in close proximity. I have lived in Waterford for 8 years. I consider the place my home. I want to see what’s best for the city but WIT has no God given right to this. It really needs to differentiate itself from the other IT’s. Some of whom may I add are very progressive institutions.

merlante

Firstly, Mike, you're not the messenger, the negativity is coming from you! We simply can't stand for anything less. This current campaign will probably succeed. Previous ones were flawed.

To the people who are complaining about students causing trouble, please take it to another thread -- I don't see what it has to do with WIT becoming a University. Besides, the amount of purpose built student accommodation is growing all the time.

To the people that think that WIT doesn't "deserve" to be a university. Firstly, it is much further advanced than NIHED and NIHEL were when they were upgraded to DCU and UL respectively. In any case, ITs provide university level education in their degrees. Since all degrees are examined by external bodies to ensure certain standards. Secondly, WIT is just a set of buildings, it doesn't "deserve" anything. The people of the South East "deserve" a University. The most cost effective way of doing this is to upgrade WIT.

To those who think an upgrade would only be a name change. You are very wrong. For a start, it would have to be funded like a university. And secondly, it would come to have the same pull for industry as UCC, UL, NUIG, etc.

It is simply flawed thinking to believe that a university in Waterford is not desperately needed or "deserved"!

Freddie59

floyd333 wrote:

I know many people who have studied in WIT and when asked about University status the reaction is nearly always the same, it’s not ready for an upgrade.
And let me get this straight Freddie59 it makes no difference what county I am from. The insular all Waterford anti Kilkenny etc. outlook does nothing for the area. Surrounding counties also need a University in close proximity. I have lived in Waterford for 8 years. I consider the place my home. I want to see what’s best for the city but WIT has no God given right to this. It really needs to differentiate itself from the other IT’s. Some of whom may I add are very progressive institutions.

**sigh** From my earlier post (note the section in bold):

"Thanks blaahead. We're all in this together. As one who didn't get the opp to go to Third Level (but my kids are/will) we have to get off our arses not just for future educational needs, but for the knock-on effect to the City and surrounding region. I think your most impostant sentence above is "A university brings jobs to an area". End of story!"

Now, I merely came here to publicise the existence of the petition, which I personally think is a very good idea. You don't - fair enough. I asked from where you originate in order to determine whether or not you have your own agenda to have the University sited elsewhere. You have chosen not to answer for your own reasons. Fair enough again.

I'm from Waterford - I make no apologies for arguing the case in Waterford's favour. If it has a knock-on effect and benefits for surrounding counties - even better. Question is - are you in or out? As one who has beneftted by your further education at this I.T. I would have thought a little loyalty would apply.

Would you be in favour of a University being set up here? What, in your opinion and experience, is needed to upgrade it to University status? Would the actual conferring of University status cause it to be upgraded anyway? I say bring it on. The benefits to the entire area would be enormous.:)

mire

i think that an upgrade for WIT will be essential for the future of waterford as a city - and as a place to live and work - and the arguments will naturally be judged on the merits of the individual case. However, it will be important to present a united front and to lobby as strongly as possible - decision makers should not be presented with any negativity or any dissenting voices. i was told that back in the 1970s when Limerick and Waterford were essentially competing for UNI designation -that there were certain dissenting voices coming from a number of politicians locally in waterford - along the lines of - "we dont want that kind of thing down here etc" and that this negative local response had an influence on the decision to grant limerick and not waterford!

btw - i am not from the city , nor do i live there - but know it well and i hope the WIT does receive a university designation. best of luck and will sign the petition

merlante

Amazon are bringing 450 jobs to Cork. This is on top of the 1,200+ jobs that were announced for Cork over the past few months. Amazon said that the IT and linguistic skills given to graduates of UCC and CIT were the major factor is choosing the location.

So fair enough, if people want to waste time talking about whether WIT "deserves" to be upgraded, or whether we *really* need a university or that a university should go somewhere else or that an upgrade would be in name only or that petitions don't work, then go ahead. Be negative. Just be aware that when you're are wasting your time being negative, hundreds of jobs are *not* going to Waterford and the south east, and will continue *not* to come to the region until people get over their petty little grievances and get with the programme!

And just FYI, that online petition was mentioned in an article in this weeks News & Star which will become part of the local media digest that the government will monitor -- as it does for local media all over the country. It helps to show, in any case, that the University is a burning issue in Waterford.

Freddie59

merlante wrote:

Amazon are bringing 450 jobs to Cork. This is on top of the 1,200+ jobs that were announced for Cork over the past few months. Amazon said that the IT and linguistic skills given to graduates of UCC and CIT were the major factor is choosing the location.

So fair enough, if people want to waste time talking about whether WIT "deserves" to be upgraded, or whether we *really* need a university or that a university should go somewhere else or that an upgrade would be in name only or that petitions don't work, then go ahead. Be negative. Just be aware that when you're are wasting your time being negative, hundreds of jobs are *not* going to Waterford and the south east, and will continue *not* to come to the region until people get over their petty little grievances and get with the programme!

And just FYI, that online petition was mentioned in an article in this weeks News & Star which will become part of the local media digest that the government will monitor -- as it does for local media all over the country. It helps to show, in any case, that the University is a burning issue in Waterford.

Well said.:)

mike65

merlante get a grip! How many people on this thread or in this City and indeed region are against a university for the South east?

Practically no-one!

The only dissent regards whether some two-bit online petition (or similair kinds of agitation) is going to make any difference to the on-going political campaign...

Mike.

col o

floyd333 wrote:

I know many people who have studied in WIT and when asked about University status the reaction is nearly always the same, it’s not ready for an upgrade.
And let me get this straight Freddie59 it makes no difference what county I am from. The insular all Waterford anti Kilkenny etc. outlook does nothing for the area. Surrounding counties also need a University in close proximity. I have lived in Waterford for 8 years. I consider the place my home. I want to see what’s best for the city but WIT has no God given right to this. It really needs to differentiate itself from the other IT’s. Some of whom may I add are very progressive institutions.

Your opinion that WIT is not ready for University status is an invalid one.You make it ready.I attended WIT just before it was made an IT.The plan at the time was that it and DIT would be the only IT's.They were different to the RTC's in that they were allowed award there own Qualifications.The Students union of the Cork RTC were up in arms and organised mass rallys.Including one to Dail Eireann.The Minister (Mary O'Rourke I think) didn't have the courage to face them down so made all the RTC's into IT's.This was only a name change.The result was the project was held back forr years.This experience probably inhibits more than anything else our prospect for a university.The reason the WIT is in poor condition is Underfunding.It is the largest IT in student numbers but is only funded to the level of one of the smaller IT's.The local media have being going on about this for years and have backed it up with evidence.It is political will that is preventing a uni in Waterford and nothing else.

By the way your anti Kilkenny insular Waterford remark is total bollocks.I presume you are from Kilkenny by the fact you mentioned the place.Phil Hogan is well known for his anti Waterford rants.He kicks off at the IDA every chance he gets accusing it of showing favouritism to Waterford.Even though the evidence is to the contrary.Again the reaction to the Boundary extension by Kilkennys politicians with terms like 'Hitlers henchmen' and 'landrab' sound more like DUP statements.

ballooba

I heavily endorse this upgrade to Red Brick University status for WIT. Then we can set about giving it to the rest of the ITs.

meldrew

Merlante when you talk about jobs going to Cork you have to remember who the Minister for Employment and Enterprise is , this man in different ministries has shown such unbelievable favouritism to his own constituency and there has not been a single peep about it in the national media , every second day when you open the papers its about jobs going to Cork
I firmly believe that while this man holds office Waterford will be overlooked for everything
Its hard to believe that Waterford has a senior minister and every move he makes is scrutinised by the media and Michael Martin in Cork gets away scott free
The only way Waterford will get a university is through political pressure but with such strong forces against us its going to be a long struggle

Freddie59

mike65 wrote:

merlante get a grip! How many people on this thread or in this City and indeed region are against a university for the South east?

Practically no-one!

The only dissent regards whether some two-bit online petition (or similair kinds of agitation) is going to make any difference to the on-going political campaign...

Mike.

Mike - I see where you're coming from. But, IMHO, EVERY LITTLE THING helps. That's the way things are. Many things which were considered two-bit in the past turned out to be winners.

Wasn't it the chairman of IBM (I think) who said in the 60s that he only saw a market for 5, or maybe 6, PCs? We all have to pull together. If someone wants to get a petition going - hey - go for it.

If you have a diffrerent approach I'll support it. But all of the approaches combined may cause a knock-on effect. Stick together - and we'll get there.;)

floyd333

My last few words on this post:

Yes the South East needs a University, Yes it should be located at WIT. My point was that from my experience and from the experience of others the college has as lot of improving to do. It has some serious issues with organisation, communication and teaching standards etc. These issues are not necessarily caused by lack of funding. In other words the college could really help its cause by pulling up its socks.

From a campaigning point of view, this is the same as the radiotherapy issue. People need to be mobilised. High profile campaigns are needed. Online petitions while good intentioned will achieve little.

Col O. you’re the one who is talking bollox about the Kilkenny stuff. I was merely saying that the Waterford Kilkenny issue has nothing to do with the debate when Freddie asked where I’m form. As I said earlier:“I have lived in Waterford for 8 years. I consider the place my home. I want to see what’s best for the city”

Freddie59

floyd333 wrote:

My last few words on this post:

Yes the South East needs a University, Yes it should be located at WIT. My point was that from my experience and from the experience of others the college has as lot of improving to do. It has some serious issues with organisation, communication and teaching standards etc. These issues are not necessarily caused by lack of funding. In other words the college could really help its cause by pulling up its socks.

I see where you're coming from. You've made quite an allegation against WIT. Would you possibly be able to back it up with some examples?

floyd333 wrote:

From a campaigning point of view, this is the same as the radiotherapy issue. People need to be mobilised. High profile campaigns are needed. Online petitions while good intentioned will achieve little.

Every little helps - as already pointed out. The people involved are to be commended for their efforts - no matter how small. Imagine if ALL of us did SOMETHING?

floyd333 wrote:

Col O. you’re the one who is talking bollox about the Kilkenny stuff. I was merely saying that the Waterford Kilkenny issue has nothing to do with the debate when Freddie asked where I’m form. As I said earlier:“I have lived in Waterford for 8 years. I consider the place my home. I want to see what’s best for the city”

And fair play to you for the sentiments. But unfortunately the issue does rear it's head at times, as certain people do have agendas. Our agenda is to bring a University to Waterford - all Waterford people aspire to it. That's it - plain and simple. But we must be careful that it is not swiped from beneath our noses also.;)

col o

floyd333 wrote:

My last few words on this post:

Yes the South East needs a University, Yes it should be located at WIT. My point was that from my experience and from the experience of others the college has as lot of improving to do. It has some serious issues with organisation, communication and teaching standards etc. These issues are not necessarily caused by lack of funding. In other words the college could really help its cause by pulling up its socks.

From a campaigning point of view, this is the same as the radiotherapy issue. People need to be mobilised. High profile campaigns are needed. Online petitions while good intentioned will achieve little.

Col O. you’re the one who is talking bollox about the Kilkenny stuff. I was merely saying that the Waterford Kilkenny issue has nothing to do with the debate when Freddie asked where I’m form. As I said earlier:“I have lived in Waterford for 8 years. I consider the place my home. I want to see what’s best for the city”

I'm not talking bollox about the Waterford /Kilkenny stuff.As I pointed out it was Cork RTC who scuppered Waterford's chances of having something more than the other colleges.If that had succeded (as it was supposed to) the Uni issue might not be on the agenda now.Freddie could have had this in mind when he asked you where you were from.You where the one who made the first references to Waterford/Kilkenny and insular atitudes.You're right it has nothing to do with it,so why bring it up?

I'm glad to hear you consider Waterford you're home but I felt your comment was an indictment against Waterford so I responded in the context it was made.

Freddie59

col o wrote:

I'm not talking bollox about the Waterford /Kilkenny stuff.As I pointed out it was Cork RTC who scuppered Waterford's chances of having something more than the other colleges.

If that had succeded (as it was supposed to) the Uni issue might not be on the agenda now.Freddie could have had this in mind when he asked you where you were from.

Exactly.;)