Fitzwilliam Raising

Idbatterim

hey guys, took this extract from the read me first thread, here it is "Another possible pitfall is Underbetting. The minimum raise for any round of betting is twice the last bet. So if you are raising when the blinds are 25-50, the minimum raise you can make is to bring it up to 100. Similarly, if somebody bets 200, and you wish to raise, the minimum that you can raise is up to 400, as in another 200 on top of the original raise. The next player can then raise it to 600 and so on. The problem can arise if you forget this, and raise less than the minimum. This is an underbet, and the raise is disallowed and treated as a call. Be aware of how much the bet is at all times, so that you don't fall into this trap. The exception to this rule is when a player is going All-In, in which case they are allowed to underbet as they have nothing else. However, a person acting after the All-In who wishes to raise must still raise in accordance with the same rules."

So your raise has to be twice the last bet be it a call or raise right? sory the thing im not clear on is the statement above that "if somebody bets 200, and you wish to raise, the minimum that you can raise is up to 400, as in another 200 on top of the original raise. The next player can then raise it to 600 and so on" if you had to double previous bet would you not have to be 800 not 600?

RoundTower

I can't find that in the read me first sticky at all. There are innumerable threads discussing exactly how much you can raise in the Fitz: the rule is very simple and it says you must always double the total bet.

Also I think Musician's first four posts in that thread are very useful, but that the "beginners mistakes" one that "originally appeared in Card Player Ireland" (?) is crap. Maybe he was a victim of bad editing but it doesn't do him justice based on what he wrote in the first two. So take that one with a pinch of salt.

charlesanto

I tought that if you stated "raise" with an offering less than a min raise then it is treated as a min raise so you gotta put a few more chips in.
eg ... bet to you 300 - you say raise and toss in a 500 - you have to put in an xtra 100

But the blurb from Idbatterim says

The problem can arise if you forget this, and raise less than the minimum. This is an underbet, and the raise is disallowed and treated as a call.

5starpool

If you state the word 'raise' then you must make it the minimum as you say. If you attempt to underraise you will have to bring it up to the minimum. Otherwise any raise from double the previous bet upwards is the amount you can raise by.

Norwich Fan Rob

if u say raise, u must raise, if u just toss in some chips, but not enough, its a call, also if u just toss in one large demon chip, but dont say raise, its a call.

fixer

if you declare raise but no amount, you are committed to *at least* a minimum raise (2x the bet into you). If you throw in less chips, you have to make up the minimum. If you put in loads more, that's the bet that stands (in a NL game)

In a pot-limit game, declaring "Pot" commits you to a full raise. Just stating "raise" and no amount is as above.

DeVore

cant find the sticky you are referring to, can you link it?

It should say that the next raise is 800 according to your text there.

DeV.

BigDragon

Thanks to Edit>Find on this page.... The phrase '600' doesn't appear anywhere on that page.

ntlbell

BigDragon wrote:

Thanks to Edit>Find on this page.... The phrase '600' doesn't appear anywhere on that page.

it's a link within a sticky

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=133847

BigDragon

ntlbell wrote:

it's a link within a sticky

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=133847

Ahhh yes back when us old hats were newbies that thread was a sticky!

Hitman Actual

Norwich Fan Rob wrote:

also if u just toss in one large demon chip, but dont say raise, its a call.

Not necessarily. Sometimes when you throw in one single bigger chip, it can be obvious that you are raising. An example: say blinds are 25/50, and you have loads of 25 chips in front of you. When the action gets to you, and you throw in a 500 chip without saying anything, some of the better dealers will see that you mean to raise and allow it. It's usually obvious to the other players as well that you are raising.

tricky D

lenny_leonard wrote:

Not necessarily. Sometimes when you throw in one single bigger chip, it can be obvious that you are raising. An example: say blinds are 25/50, and you have loads of 25 chips in front of you. When the action gets to you, and you throw in a 500 chip without saying anything, some of the better dealers will see that you mean to raise and allow it. It's usually obvious to the other players as well that you are raising.

I'd say the better dealers would correctly rule it as a call even if it is obvious. Prevent bad habits etc..

RoundTower

lenny_leonard wrote:

Not necessarily. Sometimes when you throw in one single bigger chip, it can be obvious that you are raising. An example: say blinds are 25/50, and you have loads of 25 chips in front of you. When the action gets to you, and you throw in a 500 chip without saying anything, some of the better dealers will see that you mean to raise and allow it. It's usually obvious to the other players as well that you are raising.

Please do not do this. If you do this, and the dealer announces "call", please do not argue "but I have loads of 25 chips in front of me". Just accept that you called and move along with the game.

rrtt

600 is the correct min raise. Its explain quite well on this site www.homepokertourney.com/betting.htm

Hitman Actual

RoundTower wrote:

Please do not do this. If you do this, and the dealer announces "call", please do not argue "but I have loads of 25 chips in front of me". Just accept that you called and move along with the game.

It's not something I ever do myself (I'm a stickler for etiquette, tbh, if etiquette is the word here) but it's something I've noticed, and a lot of dealers seem to let it go. Plus, other players (fairly experienced ones at least) seem to accept that a raise is meant as well.

RoundTower

lenny_leonard wrote:

It's not something I ever do myself (I'm a stickler for etiquette, tbh, if etiquette is the word here) but it's something I've noticed, and a lot of dealers seem to let it go. Plus, other players (fairly experienced ones at least) seem to accept that a raise is meant as well.

If you make it obvious in some way, make a hand gesture to raise it up or point at the pot first, then it is a raise. It is not enough that "you have loads of 25 chips" in front of you. The dealer may just think you need change.

Similarly if the bet is €6 and you put in one €25 chip and one €1 chip it is usually obvious you are calling.

brianmc

rrtt wrote:

600 is the correct min raise. Its explain quite well on this site www.homepokertourney.com/betting.htm

Not in the Fitzwilliam. The correct raise in the case being discussed is to 800

mewso

RoundTower wrote:

Also I think Musician's first four posts in that thread are very useful, but that the "beginners mistakes" one that "originally appeared in Card Player Ireland" (?) is crap. Maybe he was a victim of bad editing but it doesn't do him justice based on what he wrote in the first two. So take that one with a pinch of salt.

Aw shucks.

Most of the non-crap part is an amalgam of alot of stuff that has been discussed before and is open to correction and has been changed in the past due to folks telling me to add stuff to it or correct mistakes in it.

monkey pleasure

Idbatterim wrote:

Similarly, if somebody bets 200, and you wish to raise, the minimum that you can raise is up to 400, as in another 200 on top of the original raise. The next player can then raise it to 600 and so on.

This is where internet sites are wrong, a persons raise has to match the previous bet so in this case the sequence goes 200 400 800.
Also has anyone noticed that theres never dead buttons on party so the person right of the person that goes out on bb never pays small blind,can get frustrating when the blinds are high.

DeVore

corrected in the sticky, though it had been corrected later in the thread.

DeV.