O'Driscoll's Captaincy

Teg Veece

There's no doubting his skill as a player. Both on and off the ball, he's world class. But I've yet to be convinced of this man's ability to captain a side. He handles media quite well (bar "the tackle" incident) but on the pitch he seems to lack some of the crucial elements which goes into making a good captain. Leadership being one of them. He doesn't really motivate the players much either.
A captain should be urging his players on and biting at them when they screw up. O'Connell would make a great captain in my opinion. He has huge experience at this stage and always keeps his cool regardless of the situation.
Besides, O'Driscoll plays his best rugby when the pressure is off.

Nukem

Teg Veece wrote:

O'Connell would make a great captain

That is all

casanova_kid

O Connell is athe natural leader of the team, everybody knows that. O Driscoll is a fantastic player and a team leader in the way he goes about his busines on the park but O Connell is the kind of player who won't just die for the team but also kill for the team and should be captain. Though the likelihood of fast Eddie making that decision is non existent.

Funkstard

I've been thinking that myself. It seems like O'Driscoll was given the captaincy purely because of his skill and status, he was only in the team for a few years when he was given it. There's no way the players look up to O'Driscoll the same way as they do to O'Connell

Eoin

O'Connell is 2nd choice for Captain anyway, so I wouldn't say the chances are non-existent.

I think maybe there is room for the two of them. BOD could be better at making strategic / tactical calls, where POC is great at getting the team going. If you look at the previous Lions tour, Keith Wood was acknowledged as the unofficial tour captain as he got everyone going, but Johnson (I think) was still the official captain. Either way you need both a vocal pack and backs leader, so it's not as if they are competing with each other.

Whether or not BOD would be better if he wasn't captain is an interesting topic. I don't know if he could handle being second fiddle to someone else though!

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

sioda

I have to agree with most here that BOD needs to give the captaincy away and O Connell is the obvious choice. The thing is BOD has O sullivans backing so I think if Eddie goes change will be dramatic and to be honest well needed.

I think if I hear we are building towards the world cup one more time I mite have to kill someone

Teg Veece

sioda wrote:

I think if I hear we are building towards the world cup one more time I mite have to kill someone

It's definitely over used as a get out of jail for free card. It seems like since the last world cup all we've been doing is building towards the next one thus any humiliating defeats and poor performances between the two events are null and void. :rolleyes:

spanner

Teg Veece wrote:

It's definitely over used as a get out of jail for free card. It seems like since the last world cup all we've been doing is building towards the next one thus any humiliating defeats and poor performances between the two events are null and void. :rolleyes:

and dont forget we were the "only playing any rugby" againist the french,

that man is living in some dream world.

I think its time for a bit of headhunting......... ruddock

sioda

At this stage I'd take anyone who has managed any international team sport

Teg Veece

sioda wrote:

At this stage I'd take anyone who has managed any international team sport

lol. What's Kerr up to these days?...

Trojan

I don't think SCW took the Lions captaincy lightly when he chose BOD. So people outside of do see leadership qualities in him. SCW could easily have chosen POC, LD, GT, even JW or others.

Clash

sioda wrote:

I have to agree with most here that BOD needs to give the captaincy away and O Connell is the obvious choice. The thing is BOD has O sullivans backing so I think if Eddie goes change will be dramatic and to be honest well needed.

A year ago I would have agreed with you, but now I'm not so sure. This year, BOD appears to have got the captaincy thing kicked, and IMO, it was him that kick started the counter attack in Paris. I was at that game, and after the last French try, he got the players in a huddle under the goals, totally ignoring Ellissaldes conversion and seemed to be really laying it on the line. Next thing..... 4 tries.

Sandwich

Certainly worth questioning his captaincy. Dismissing the first 70 minutes in Paris as just bizarre, we had a real game on our hands during for the last 10 mins with the French panicking in freefall. I cant help wondering if a steady, commanding captain would have kept his own team cool and focused and brought of the victory.

Does anyone know of a precedent for a high profile captain, while his team place not being in question, passing on the role to a better 'captain'.
Just doesnt seems to happen asfaik.

Clash

Sandwich wrote:

Certainly worth questioning his captaincy. Dismissing the first 70 minutes in Paris as just bizarre, we had a real game on our hands during for the last 10 mins with the French panicking in freefall. I cant help wondering if a steady, commanding captain would have kept his own team cool and focused and brought of the victory.

For the last 10 minutes in Paris BOD was off with a cramp. Having scored 4 tries in the preceeding 15 minutes we then failed to score when he went off, even though as you say the French were in panic mode. Your point seems to argue in favour of his captaincy rather than against it.

Sandwich

Yeh. Fair point.

What does the same reasoning say about O'Connell's leadership skills then? Or did nobody takeup leadership when BOD was off?

Clash

Sandwich wrote:

Yeh. Fair point.

What does the same reasoning say about O'Connell's leadership skills then? Or did nobody takeup leadership when BOD was off?

Was O'Connell not off at that stage as well?, shoulder injury that kept him out of the Welsh match.

MarVeL

No he played on regardless.

AnnaStezia

I think that BOD's game is a little off these days. I just don't see the same spark in him. Maybe he is being a bit protective of that shoulder ?

Also, he strikes me as being a lot more anxious and a lot less confident on and off the pitch [interviews] these days and I wonder does he feel under some kind of pressure ? Again, that might stem from that shoulder as if he gets banjaxed again that would have pretty serious consequences for the guy.

RuggieBear

the irish squad is not a happy squad. BOD being EOS right hand man has to be feeling the pressure from that.

Clash

RuggieBear wrote:

the irish squad is not a happy squad. BOD being EOS right hand man has to be feeling the pressure from that.

I don't agree with that assessment. Sure, there are weaknesses in the squad, but I don't think that the comeback in Paris would have ever happened with an unhappy and therefore unmotivated squad. BOD's game for Ireland is no different from how he plays for Leinster with the exception that he doesn't have as good an out half, and thus has less freedom in the green shirt.

Teg Veece

I think this "comeback" in France is being a bit over rated. They still lost that game, (by 11 points?) and only seemed to get into the game after France knew the game was in the bag and made a string of substitutions.

Plus, I don't think O'Gara's to blame for O'Driscoll's lack of form. All of his best performances in the green shirt were with O'Gara at out half. And how many games has O'Driscoll played this season with Conteponi to justify your statement? Two?

Anyway, kinda straying off the point there.
I just think that O'Driscoll needs to communicate/motivate his players more. There's no way EOS would ever take the captaincy from his star player, he had a hard time considering whether he should replace Bowe!
Bottom line is that the team has skill in abundance but the same can't be said for passion which is a pity.

Clash

Teg Veece wrote:

I think this "comeback" in France is being a bit over rated. They still lost that game, (by 11 points?) and only seemed to get into the game after France knew the game was in the bag and made a string of substitutions.

France scored a try after one of those strings of substiitutions. The difference to me came from the change of ball distribution from O'Gara and Stringer. The French did not know which way the ball was coming at them, and with BOD and D'Arcy and later Trimble coming at them from deep, they found it very difficult to close us down. They were running backwards from O'Driscoll every time he ran at them.

Plus, I don't think O'Gara's to blame for O'Driscoll's lack of form. All of his best performances in the green shirt were with O'Gara at out half. And how many games has O'Driscoll played this season with Conteponi to justify your statement? Two?

Those best performances were a number of years ago, when oppositions hadn't yet double marked BOD, and hadn't copped on to O'Gara's one dimensionality. As for the Leinster games, yes two, but Contepomi is a potent strikeforce in his own right, and oppositions can't target the centres and ignore him.

I just think that O'Driscoll needs to communicate/motivate his players more. There's no way EOS would ever take the captaincy from his star player, he had a hard time considering whether he should replace Bowe!
Bottom line is that the team has skill in abundance but the same can't be said for passion which is a pity.

And I don't agree, it comes down to numbers, and international teams can't afford to carry players in the backs. It's too easy then to mark players if you can discount the half backs taking a run at you. If you know that Stringer is always going to pass the ball, and O'Gara is either going route 1 or 2, then it's childs play to target the centres and try and block down ROG's kicks. If you looked at the French and Italian games critically, you would have seen that the ball arrived at the Irish player at the same time as the French/Italian, no surprises that there were so many interceptions.

Hugh_C

Funkstard wrote:

There's no way the players look up to O'Driscoll the same way as they do to O'Connell

Eh, maybe because Paul is 6'5" and O'driscoll is a midget at 5'11"

(I'm inclined to think his height is exxagerated a bit - he looks like a shortass to me)

rugbug86

i think we lost the plot on saturday when o'connell went off.

as much as i love o'driscoll, o'connell should be made captain.

Sangre

I totally agree that the lack of a running threat from O Gara and Stringer puts serious pressure on the centres. A potent backline needs to be unpredictable in its attacking points. Look at France you can't give 9-15 any leeway or they'll make a break for the gap in an instant. Which just don't have those options at 9 and 10.
Wonder how the centres would fair with Humprhies planning with an attacking game plan. I think if we've made a decision to play a wide, expansive game then Humphries should be 1st choice as I believe he poses more of a threat and works the backline better.
If we want to play a game of territroy and corner kicking then O Gara is the man.