"team Schumacher" For 2007

dinjo

there is an article with Eddie Jordan,on the itv website saying that he think Michael Schumacher and Ross Brawn could be considering setting up a formula 1 team in 2007 when Renault are expected to pull the plug on their F1 plans.... click below to read the article.

Linky Linky.

dinjo

it may just be me...... but i think it would be a very interesting possibility for michael.... being a hugh fan, i'd hate to see him hang up his helmet, but if he was to do so, then i'd love to see him set up his own team....

oneofakind32

What rennault pulling the plug again? After winnig with William in the 90's and then leaving only to return a few years later pump millions into a team and win again? WTF like? Next thing ford will be back

Kersh

being a hugh fan, i'd hate to see him hang up his helmet, but if he was to do so, then i'd love to see him set up his own team....

He might even find some of those 1994 spec Benetton 'special ECUs' lying around he can throw into the car in case its not fast enough.
Or god forbid a Senna like talent had to be beaten.:mad:

Kali

oneofakind32 wrote:

What rennault pulling the plug again? After winnig with William in the 90's and then leaving only to return a few years later pump millions into a team and win again? WTF like? Next thing ford will be back

Its common enough... look at Toyota or Citroen in the WRC.. basically manufacturers pump millions into winning the championship, for marketing and blagging rights... once they have them, they don't particularly care.. at the time the Corolla had a pretty bad image, WRC helped it a lot.. similarly with the Xsara. Same has happened repeatedly with Ford in nearly every major motorsport championship.

dwaned

I for one would like to see this happen.... Huge fan and would hate to see schumi leave F1 completely. I think he still has a lot to offer the sport.

Big downside to it though..... means a new wardrobe for me:D

endplate

Kersh wrote:

He might even find some of those 1994 spec Benetton 'special ECUs' lying around he can throw into the car in case its not fast enough.
Or god forbid a Senna like talent had to be beaten.:mad:

For god's sake get over it that was 12 years ago now. Yes launch control software was found but it could not be proven that they used it. And I remember afterwards that Benetton's starts were not too shabby afterwards. Plus it didn't make the car go faster it just helped get the car off the line without wheelspin.

Team Schumacher will never happen Ms will disappear from F1 after he retires

Kersh

Imo it killed someone. Trying to beat a car that was against the rules.
It was traction control, not launch control. It helps get out of corners quicker. Thus a quicker lap.
How come all the evidence was destroyed before the FIA got their hands on it...

endplate

Kersh wrote:

Imo it killed someone. Trying to beat a car that was against the rules.
It was traction control, not launch control. It helps get out of corners quicker. Thus a quicker lap.
How come all the evidence was destroyed before the FIA got their hands on it...

Dude do your homework properly it was launch control. Senna's car bottomed out do to low tyre pressures after the safety car period and that caused the crash Senna was trying hard his throttle was pressed at 110%. Oh and the actual crash was not that bad only due to a freak thing that a suspension arm hit his visor.

Evidence was allegedly destroyed in the Williams but I watched a documentry about the crash and they had the telematry data so evidence was not destroyed so what's your point? Oh and the FIA found the Launch control software in the Benetton after tha accident but the FIA could not prove Benetton used it as I mentioned earlier

Kersh

All the Benetton evidence was destroyed. The ecus etc from the cars. So the Fia had difficulty proving anything further than the fact that the programs were there. It was traction control also. When Senna was hit by Larini in Aida he stayed out at the side of the track watching the other cars going around, and immediately reported back that the Benetton was 'different' going around corners. Its this tip off that led the Fia to go check Benettons systems.
The reason I say I reckon it killed Senna is he had to try so hard to beat a car that he fairly well knew was illegal - hence the 'trying real hard at Imola' reference you made.
Sure enough all the programs were in the Benetton Ecu, but couldnt be proven to be used. But as we all know, all you have to do is switch off the ignition system and the program can be told to be deactivated immediately, thus looking like it was dormant.

From pitpass.com ---

With Michael Schumacher on the team, it went from strength to strength and Schumacher won the World Championship in 1994 and 1995. It did not escape controversy, however, and in 1994 the FIA accused Benetton of using an illegal 'launch control' (traction control by any other name) and a subsequent investigation did find a traction control programme deep in Benetton's computer hardware on the car. ---

---The team claimed that it was used only in testing, and this perfectly reasonable explanation was immediately accepted by everyone. It was clear that neither team nor driver had been cheating in actual racing and all those who had believed otherwise, among whom were the FIA's Technical Delegate, Charlie Whiting, had been mistaken. If you believe that, you are likely to buy gold bricks from strangers. ---

Please note the very last line .

endplate

Well if you believe everything you read from Pitpass (they have always been anti Schumacher) you must be a strong believer in the articles written in the Weekly world news too. And the article does say launch control but Pitpass decided renamed it to traction control which is different. They are seperate programs. TC wasn't found LC was. Where does it say the ECU's were destroyed by Benetton? Did that info also come from Pitpass?

Yes I do agree if Benetton were using it, it could easily be made look disabled by simply switching off the ignition but it was only beneficial at the start of the race.

But even after Senna's death the Benetton was still faster than the Williams only for the team pushing the FIA too far with other issues Schmacher got disqualified from 2 races and deemed illegal due to a worn plank in Spa. This allowed Hill to catch up. The Williams was a slower car throughout the season

Kersh

It was in Autosport a while back, and also in a number of books, but i have read so many I dont know which ones. 'The Mechanics Tale' mentions driver aids , not aid, but aids- it was written by a Benetton mechanic.

From Grandprix.com -
---The biggest problem with anything electronic is that it is terribly difficult to determine whether it exists in the first place. Back in 1994 there was much fuss made about software that might be stored only in RAM, which would might be uploaded into a car's systems on the grid formation lap, and then automatically be deleted once the engine was switched off in parc ferme, before any checks could be carried out. Benetton was accused, covertly at first but later more openly, of using traction control that season. It denied it fervently. Subsequent inspection of its software revealed a deeply hidden program called Option 13, which was discovered by LRDA, the FIA's computer consultants. This was accessed by a complex ritual more esoteric than a mason's handshake. Benetton appeared to be in serious trouble. The team admitted that Option 13 was a hangover from 1993, when traction control was still legal, but claimed that it was more trouble than it was worth to delete it from the software package that carried over into 1994. It mounted an impregnable defence: Yes, we may have the software still buried deep in our system, but you have to prove that we actually used it. The FIA could not.----

How many more websites have it 'all wrong'???????

And they cheated in pitstops by removing parts of the refuelling rig in order to fill the car up quicker, this caused a huge pit fire, and Benetton were fined for tampering with the rig, so I refuse to believe the didnt use the driver aids.
Ok, you carry on thinking that a guy who refuses to have a fast and equal team mate is the worlds best... Dont know whether I have said this before, but I have no problem whatsoever with him ramming Hill, or Villeneuve, but I dont like the way he dictates who is team mate is.
Alain Prost never batted an eyelid when Senna arrived, and Kimi likewise when Jpm arrived.
But Schumacher has never wanted nor had a credible team mate in the same car. Is he afraid of something????

Dont get me a wrong , he is a class driver, and few can match him - but Alonso, Kimi and Hakkinen do, which makes him just 'very talented' not the best.

endplate

Didn't they have permission from somebody from the FIA to remove a filter from the refueling rig (probably a teaboy or somebody equally qualified).

I agree with you about the teammate issue maybe next year it'll be a change cos it's starting to look like Kimi and Michael are going to be in the same team.

I never heard it was traction control been used only Launch control. The line about they not wanting to remove it cos it would cause them problems with the 1994 software I did hear alright.

Could you tell me what this line means I don't get it. It's mentioned in the Grandprix.com article.
This was accessed by a complex ritual more esoteric than a mason's handshake

Oh found this article it says only Launch control was found and it doesn't paint a pretty picture for Benetton http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=655&FS=F1

Kersh

I assume it means that it was well hidden. Masons handshake is a more complicated handshake than normal, with hidden meanings.
Anyhow, now that he has all the records (who wouldnt in a top car and 15 years behind them), he might put himself up to the test and get a real team mate.
Although you might not think it, I do know when im watching history being made...and I do enjoy when MS has to fight, which is why I am delighted they are back on the pace. For one , we will see just how good Alonso really is, and secondly we will see some brilliant racing. But remember to enjoy it, cos its not often so many very talented drivers do be in good cars in the one season.

endplate

Well said let's put this topic to rest

Kersh

agreed *shakes*

iregk

Fair play lads, that was a good open debate and no-one resorted to insulting the other.

On another topic either of you may remember this. But when Ferrari took McLarens crown in 2000 does anyone remember the modification made to the car? I remember at the time the FIA were saying its so simple its ingenius, its legal and they are surprised nobody else has come up with it also.

I think it was somethign to do with cutting the breaking distance in half at corners or something. Altought I never heard what that Ferrari had that nobody else had. If you've not heard about this I can understand this post making no sense at all.

Kersh

Was it McLarens extra brake pedal?? The one that was pressed to shift the brake bias left/right in a corner...If not then I Cant quite remember that one, but BAR had a torque steer brake biasing left/right system a few years back that was banned.

endplate

McLaren used the third pedal in '98 and it was banned after a few races. The car was so fast anyway it didn't stop them winning the following race. I don't know what this mod is you are talking about is but I'll ask around.

BTW if any of you are interested in a Ferrari forum there is a very good one on www.thescuderia.net. You will have to register before reading the forums. I'm there under the same name as here

iregk

I heard about the McLaren third pedal but this was on a Ferrari and was deemed perfectly legal. I've been trying to find out what it is every since. I remember one of the FIA guys talking about it and he was laughing saying it was so incredibly simple! Unless it was something silly like modifying the over head camera to be like a wing or something.

Speaking of which does anyone else see the parrallel in that and the awful 3rd wing that McLaren attempted in the mid 90's!