Would this be considered Spam?

SlitheryImp

I am currrently working on an Advertisers resource website www.advertise.ie. At the moment I am populating the database with an advertisers list, I am mainly using directories and search engines to find advertising companies, PR Firms, leaflet distributors, web advertisers etc. etc. to do this.

My question is, I would like to make the advertisers I have added aware of their entry into this database with an option to either op out, have their details changed, or to request a login/pass to be able to change the details themselves.

Although I am sort of advertising the site to them, I'm not sure if this is spam as I am making them aware of their details being on the website.

This would be the letter:

Hello <Advertiser Name>,

My name is <My Name>, I am the editor of www.Advertise.ie, a new Internet site with free Advertising resources, Articles and of course an Irish Advertiser list.

I have placed your Advertising Bureau details in our Advertisers Database, You can find your listing here: http://www.advertise.ie/advertisers/

If you prefer not to be listed in our database, please let me know by return mail and the listing will be removed. If the details listed are incorrect you may send me the amended details by return mail, or alternatively you can request a password to be able to amend the details yourself.

Regards,

<My Name>

<Address and phone details>

What are your opinions of this?

* BTW this would be a free listing for them

mneylon

It's still spam

If you want to make people aware of your new service there are plenty of ways of doing it without spamming

SlitheryImp

Ok, I will have to think of something else. Thanks for the feedback.

mneylon

If you need a definition of spam have a look at:
http://www.spamhaus.org/definition.html

telecaster

If you emailed each one of the companies individually it would not be spam, but BCC them all on the same mailing and it is. Pure symantics.

mneylon

telecaster wrote:

If you emailed each one of the companies individually it would not be spam, but BCC them all on the same mailing and it is. Pure symantics.

That's rubbish

telecaster

From the link posted by blacknight

Technical Definition of Spam

An electronic message is "spam" IF:

(1) the recipient's personal identity and context are irrelevant because the message is equally applicable to many other potential recipients;

AND

(2) the recipient has not verifiably granted deliberate, explicit, and still-revocable permission for it to be sent.



There is a context and a relevance to the companies targetted by Slithery Imp, therefore it's not spam by the definition you have referenced. They guy says he is using search engines to find relevant people to contact.


A message is Spam only if it is both Unsolicited and Bulk.
- Unsolicited Email is normal email
(examples: first contact enquiries, job enquiries, sales enquiries)

This is a nonsense for me. It is ok to send a sales enquiry, but send that same sales enquiry in bulk to targetted businesses and it becomes spam. That simply doesn't make sense.

If someone has a new idea on how my business can promote itself I'm happy to receive that email even if 500 businesses similar to mine receive it also. It's not spam for me - it's a targetted bulk mail.

mneylon

telecaster wrote:

It's not spam for me - it's a targetted bulk mail.

You can try that argument when your IPs are blocked by AOL, MSN, Yahoo, Eircom and other ISPs

blorg

How many people are you talking about here? If it is a relatively small number (and how many advertising agencies are there in Ireland anyway?) you could find the most relevant person to contact in each and email them individually. Personally I tend to think it's OK if the message is highly relevant and the person sending it is personally sitting behind the reply address willing to reply. But you certainly want to be careful in avoiding spam.

SlitheryImp

It would start off as a small list, for instance the companies listed here:
http://www.iapi.ie/members/members-list.htm


There is no way I would be using a BCC list if I did do something like this, I have a database with the contact email so it would be individual mails sent.

But I think it is still a fine line, although I am not really advertising the service to them in a commercial sense I will be making them aware of the website. That's why I was asking the question, although my intentions are good (well I think that anyway), it's still pushing the limits of what is acceptable.

telecaster

Blacknight, would a bunch of people have to complain to your ISP about your emails for the ISP to consider blocking you or do the ISPs take it upon themselves to spot spammers.

Also for people using ISPs such as Eircom where you are given a new IP Address each time you connect how would blocking the IP work in that situation.

Genuine questions - not trying to be a smartarse.

SlitheryImp

telecaster wrote:

Also for people using ISPs such as Eircom where you are given a new IP Address each time you connect how would blocking the IP work in that situation.

They would block the IP address of your mail server (which will not make you popular if you are hosted on a shared server). Not your personal IP address.

mneylon

fair question

Basically what happens is this

If a mail sent arrives in a spamtrap address or bounces or is reported as spam the abuse department of your ISP will probably be notified.

For example, as an ISP I have access to reports from Hotmail and MSN users and can see if any of our clients need to talk to us (*cough*) or if there is a security issue.

Eircom for example would block IPs that send a lot of emails unless they were on their whitelist

If your IP address or that of your provider's mail server gets blacklisted the listing can last anything from 24 hours to a week in most cases, while the more extreme cases maybe permanent.

mneylon

SlitheryImp wrote:

Not your personal IP address.

If you are on a dynamic IP range any mail you send directly will automatically be scored as probable spam, however some ISPs, such as Smart, have started blocking port 25 on their domestic plans.

dvdfan

Personal opinion would be i wouldnt view this as spam, because its very relevant to their business and in their interests to ensure he has posted up to date details. Assuming this is free advertising i cant see anyone complaining, i have a website that has been included in many online resources without me knowing that show up in google, i would have been glad at the opportunity to have a say in the description of the advert but i was very happy that my site was getting extra coverage via google.

For me spam is mail that has no relevance to me and sent by someone that has no knowledge of the kind of products or information im interested in the hope of making a sale. I dont think this applies to the above and the fact that he took the time to get peoples opinions on the matter shows some decincy.

Black night is most likely correct but i think this is one of those situations where the rules should be bent. Just my opinion though.

blorg

With that number of companies you could find out the name of a contact person and address them all individually and it would not be spam. You would want to be very careful on your phrasing of the email however as "Your website is listed in XXXXX directory" is actually one of the more common spams sent to domain owners.

MarketingMan

I tend to agree with the last two posts. I can tell you that my company is actually on the list that you provided. I can also tell you that I got a phone call 2 days ago from someone working on behalf of the IDMA who basically was doing the same thing & talked me through all the info they were going to list and gave me the opportunity to change it.

I don't think it is spam because it directly relates to them but I do think you are better off contacting peole directly.

SlitheryImp

Thanks for your input everyone.

If I understand it correctly, I will get around the 'Spam' definition by addressing it personally to the receiver. This should not be a problem.

MarketingMan: Would it be interesting to a company like yours to be listed in such a resource? (I suppose any exposure is good exposure...)

MarketingMan

If its free then no harm, probably would only pay to be part of the main associations web resources though. Good luck with it.

rsynnott

Spamtastic, I'm afraid.