Shia and Sunni?

UU

I'm not an expert on the two sects in the Islamic faith - Sunni and Shia or on Islam for that matter. The impression I get is like in Christianity with Protestant and Catholic with one being the stricter, conservative, and orthodox one and the other being more liberal and radical and in Judaism with Orthodox and Reform/ Liberal/ Progressive.

Which one in Islam is more orthodox? I thought it was Shia but someone else said it was Sunni so I'm confused as 20% of Islam is Shia and is located in mainly Iran and Iraq where they're more strict.

Come to think of it, what is the difference between both Sunni and Shia apart from different names and the amount of followers and how come like Catholics and Protestants did for centuries and some still do, do Shia and Sunni Muslims fight a lot. A fella I know from Morocco is Sunni and we were walking down the road when we passed by some Shia Muslims from our school and he said he hated them. I asked him why and he replied "Because they're Shia and Sunni like me hate them". It reminded me cruelly of Northern Ireland and how he could hate them when I didn't even know them and his intolerance and bigotry really saddened me. I asked myself "What's the world coming to?"

By the way, if you are Muslim (Sunni or Shia) please say so if you want. If you're non-Muslim like me you can say what your religion is if you want to as this is a free discussion board for people of all different religions as long as there's no fighting! Sorry I rambled on - I have a tendancy to do that.

Wibbs

I understood it was basically down to an early dispute as to who should have been the first Caliph.

Gaillimhtaibhse

Wibbs wrote:

I understood it was basically down to an early dispute as to who should have been the first Caliph.

Yes, a Caliph dispute after the death of Mohammid (sp?). One branch claimed direct hereditary descent, the other claimed expediency to select a leader. At the moment, I cannot remember which was paired with which. Then again, I am not a believer in Islam or a follower (Muslim), so what I say here is unqualified. Someone who is a Muslim would perhaps be better informed.

Suff

The Difference between Sunni and Shia:

Note: Islam is One, the Message is one.

Short History:[/U]
After the Death of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) the Leader of the Muslim community is to be selected.
Islam brought democracy (Funny enough!) when it comes to selecting the head of state. "Majles Al shora" - transated as the council for Advice. where a number of elected wise men discuss and nominate a person to take the position of head of community "Chalif".
note: the Chalif cannot do or gie any order until the "Majles Al shora" have approved f it. sadly this is long gone in the Islamic word.

The Prohpet (PBUH) did not state that a member of his household should take that position. it was for the people to decide.
the people nominated "Abu Baker" -the Prohpet's best friend and compainan.
then an argument broke between the Prohpet's cousin "ALI" and "Abu Baker"
"ALI" wanted the position knowing that "Abu Baker" has been selected.

the community spilt between supportes of Ali's right-as they put it and Abu Baker.

Ali's supporters became known as Shia - people of/supporters of/follower of Ali. the others who did not support the shia's views became known as Sunnah.

Sunnah mean the way of life- they follow the same way of life the Prophet(PBUH) have lived.

List Of Differences:

it's started as mainly political then transformed by the shia into religious.

Belief: Both pray to the same GOD, believe in the same teachings, prophets, Quraan, ramadan,haj and so on.
Prayer: the Shia had applied a number of changes to their prayer,for example: they speak loudly while in prostration, they place a disc made from clay under their forhead.

in Islam there are five prayers: Dawn, Noon, Afternoon, sunset and night prayer. each prayer has it's own time.

Athan: Shia call for prayer three times a day only
the noon and after noon calling are both grouped into one to be called at noon. that way they can pray the afternoon right after the noon (even that its time is not due yet)
they did the same to the Sunset and night prayer where they call for both at sunset.

The shia also have added more lines to the prayer calling:

- I witness that Ali is God's apostle. and his childre are God's excuse on earth.
- Come for Good Work

Zakat: in Islam the Zakat stands at 2.5% of a persons wealth to be paied every year before the end of ramadan.
the Shia have increased it to 5% as they consider themselves from the Prophet's household and they should gain the same amount. this money is given to thire mulah (no mullah is sunni ) to be used as the mulah see fit.
while in Islam the money is divided into two sections, one distributed amoung poor and needy people and the other is used to finance the building/maintiance of schools and the running of the state.

Mosque: Shia have their own Mosques and also a community house for prasing and greefing for one of Ali's sons claled "Husain", it's called "Heseneya"-

info on "Heseneya":several times during the year they mourn the loss of Husain and go to the Hesaneya and cry, beat/cut them selves until they bleed. this is as a punishment for not supporting Husain when he went to fight "Moaweya Iben Abi Sufian" in the Cham Region- now known as Syria.

***edit: this bloody punishment is prohibited in Islam, it is not part of Islam in any way or form.


The Shia hate, insult and mock the Prophet's compainans, like Abu baker, Omar and Othman due to the political issue of choosing a Chalif.

The Sunni community doesnt approve of the Shia's beliefs and practices as they (Shia) do not follow the teachings of Islam or the way of life of the Prophet (PBUH).



The BIG question....Do the Sunna community consider the Shia as Muslims?
to put it simply......some do and some dont!

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The Source of information on the topic as based on my own knowledge/readings on the matter, I would recommend people who are interested in this topic to read/research to get a better understanding/view.
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if I got anything incorrect please do notify it/ correct it

UU

Thanks a million Suff. You certainly know your Islam! So both are just as observant to their religion. Hmmm . . . funny thing that a disagreement can cause so much grief. It sounds more interesting than watching "Neighbours" (LOL!)

Gunshot

The main difference between Suni and Shia is tht Shia believe tht Prophet Muhammad (M.P.B.U.H) wasnt da last prophet nd dey are still waitin for da last prophet.
Suni believe tht Prophet Muhammad (M.P.B.U.H) is da last Prophet nd thts da truth frm da Islamic point of view

Suff

gunshot....can I ask you where did you get that info? I never heard of such thing!

larryone

Gunshot
cd yu pls wrt mr chrntly. pls jst try usng mrs vwls
translates as:
Could you please write more coherently? Please just try using more vowels...

marco murphy

Shias make up 10% of Muslims and i believe have been oppressed for the most part.

larryone

There's been nastiness on both sides. Just like the Catholic/Protestant divide in mainstream Christianity.

Personally I really like the Sufi approach - it's slightly more fitting with my pantheistic tendencies, and you get to dance and spin your way to a closer understanding of God! =0)

UU

Oh isn't Sufi a type of Islamic religious order or something? They dance around in the funny white robes? Like this:

larryone

That's them alright. One of the better known dances involves spinning on the left foot, propelled by the right foot - at incredibly high speeds, for anything up to an hour. Then they fall down, and lie flat facing downwards and feel an unwinding sensation and feel a strong connection with the earth. The practice sounds kinda pagan to me. =0)

They tend to focus on more spiritual aspects of Islam. I like the idea.

UU

It sounds really cool and nice as well as exausting! Are may Muslims Sufi or is just a small number? I think some aspects of Islam actually came from various Gnostic Pagan groups which was quite popular aroung the time of Mohammed before they were all converted that was.

Sufi sounds nice though. I wonder if they ever perform their ritual dances for audiences or is kept closed from public? :rolleyes:

Suff

They are "Bedaah " which means :- invented/ Added.
it's a way of life invented some time in the 9th and 10th centuries .

It got nothing to do with Islam or Muhammad (PBUH) teachings.

If you want to learn about Islam, I would'nt recommend reading about them cos you'll be drifting into some pagan based teachings.

arbeitsscheuer

Actually the Shia'a versus Sunni division is remarkably similar to the division between Presbyterian and Anglican protestants. A similarity I only noticed recently while studying the divisions between the different Protestant sects in Northern Ireland... Sects within Sects... Divisions within Divisions...

Did nobody ever tell them that There Is Power In A Union?:(

larryone

Suff wrote:

They are "Bedaah " which means :- invented/ Added.
it's a way of life invented some time in the 9th and 10th centuries .

It got nothing to do with Islam or Muhammad (PBUH) teachings.

If you want to learn about Islam, I would'nt recommend reading about them cos you'll be drifting into some pagan based teachings.

Refering to Sufi as Bid'ah is a bit extreme. From anything I've read about Sufi, it has a lot to do with Islam. Just not mainstream Islam. But there are Sufi orders in Sunni and Shia. To label them as heretics like that is going a bit too far in my opinion.

larryone

SebtheBum wrote:

Did nobody ever tell them that There Is Power In A Union?:(

I'm not sure if the persuit of power is a good thing when it comes to religion.