Coolock Lane interchange

darkman2

There is something very Irish about this interchange sitting on top, as it does, the entrance to a tunnel. I think this interchange should have been upgraded at least or even discarded. If you dont agree with me take a look at the loony plans for the slips into and out of the tunnel. The merge, in my view is reckless and dangerous.:mad:

murphaph

There's no slips into the tunnel. The tunnel is only accessible from the M1 mainline. I don't see a problem with the interchange. It might require some driver attention but I've driven far more complex motorway junctions than that and have had no problems. Try dome of the NI motorway junctions in Belfast for major weaving. It happens everywhere tbh.

darkman2

Yes, however the Port Tunnel, I reckon will become a commuter route despite the tolls. DCC wont miss that opportunity to make money. Noticed they are downgrading their estimates for the number of trucks that may use the tunnel? This dosnt supprise me as this is sly recognition that the whole project is a farce. Its too small, the entire thing. Its two low and should at the minimum have been 4 lanes each way with no toll and easy, unrestricted access to the city centre and port (unfortunately planners here dont seem to have any cop on). The vital Eastern Bypass will be built, im sure of that but here is the thing you cant have an Eastern Bypass without the tunnel which will have to allow cars through unrestricted in such circumstances. This idea that cars will be charged 12 euro when the tunnel opens is tbh complete BS and the Council knows it. Id bet my house they will lower the toll and allow commuter traffic. Wait and see, its as plain as day.

So this makes the merge at the M1 all the more significant. 1km stretch of three lane merging to the M50. Hauliers say thats too tight for comfort, I agree.:rolleyes:

Bluetonic

darkman2 wrote:

So this makes the merge at the M1 all the more significant. 1km stretch of three lane merging to the M50. Hauliers say thats too tight for comfort, I agree.:rolleyes:

Uphill and crossing from right to left into the bargain too, which I've already pointed out many a times on here.

markpb

darkman2 wrote:

Noticed they are downgrading their estimates for the number of trucks that may use the tunnel? This dosnt supprise me as this is sly recognition that the whole project is a farce. Its too small, the entire thing... This idea that cars will be charged 12 euro when the tunnel opens is tbh complete BS and the Council knows it. Id bet my house they will lower the toll and allow commuter traffic. Wait and see, its as plain as day.

I could be wrong but I think the installed HVAC in the tunnel has a much lower capacity than you'd expect. The toll (supposedly) keeps the tunnel free from traffic jams so the lorrys have quick access to the port and also reduces the number of cars using the tunnel.

So this makes the merge at the M1 all the more significant. 1km stretch of three lane merging to the M50. Hauliers say thats too tight for comfort, I agree.:rolleyes:

I don't understand why the tunnel doesn't split at the noth end so the exiting vehicles come out on the left side, ie in the slow lane and vice versa for vehicles entering the tunnel southbound.

Bluetonic

markpb wrote:

I don't understand why the tunnel doesn't split at the noth end so the exiting vehicles come out on the left side, ie in the slow lane and vice versa for vehicles entering the tunnel southbound.

Beacsue the idea is to make the Port Tunnel and the M1 == One straight section of motorway not the other way around.

darkman2

markpb wrote:

I could be wrong but I think the installed HVAC in the tunnel has a much lower capacity than you'd expect. The toll (supposedly) keeps the tunnel free from traffic jams so the lorrys have quick access to the port and also reduces the number of cars using the tunnel.



I don't understand why the tunnel doesn't split at the noth end so the exiting vehicles come out on the left side, ie in the slow lane and vice versa for vehicles entering the tunnel southbound.

I dunno, there just seems to be an element of stupidity about the whole thing. If your going to build a bloody tunnel make it big enough and wide enough. Not in Ireland though:mad:

markpb

Bluetonic wrote:

Beacsue the idea is to make the Port Tunnel and the M1 == One straight section of motorway not the other way around.

I understand the concept behind it but, in practice, it looks like the slower moving vehicles will end up in the middle of the road and somehow have to cross several lanes of traffic in order to exit the M1 onto the M50.

MorningStar

darkman2 wrote:

I dunno, there just seems to be an element of stupidity about the whole thing. If your going to build a bloody tunnel make it big enough and wide enough. Not in Ireland though:mad:

THere is nothing "Irish" about this at all. Go to any other country and you get all the same neigh sayers. The element of stupidity normally comes fromJoe public whom thinks that massive projects are really easy to organise and get right. It normally takes small minded people who don't keep an eye on the world to say things like "Irish" way of doing things is always wrong and that Ireland always do it wrong etc...
Shocking news people the problem isn't Ireland but the very nature of such projects. Look at Boston and its history A tunnel built in the 30s was too small by the time it was finished. The big dig won't fix its problem and the should have kept the overground roads too. There is a bridge built there that the designer has warned will fall down as they didn't build it per specification.

darkman2

MorningStar wrote:

THere is nothing "Irish" about this at all. Go to any other country and you get all the same neigh sayers. The element of stupidity normally comes fromJoe public whom thinks that massive projects are really easy to organise and get right. It normally takes small minded people who don't keep an eye on the world to say things like "Irish" way of doing things is always wrong and that Ireland always do it wrong etc...
Shocking news people the problem isn't Ireland but the very nature of such projects. Look at Boston and its history A tunnel built in the 30s was too small by the time it was finished. The big dig won't fix its problem and the should have kept the overground roads too. There is a bridge built there that the designer has warned will fall down as they didn't build it per specification.

Using the US as an example of how not to do things is not a good idea as they are the best at road infrastructure. Their highway and freeway network put the rest of the world to shame. We arent a patch on them. The difference is they have a 'can do' attitude unlike the powers that be in Ireland. If the Irish cant get it right in boom times we will never EVER get it right.

MorningStar

darkman2 wrote:

Using the US as an example of how not to do things is not a good idea as they are the best at road infrastructure. Their highway and freeway network put the rest of the world to shame. We arent a patch on them. The difference is they have a 'can do' attitude unlike the powers that be in Ireland. If the Irish cant get it right in boom times we will never EVER get it right.

I think you missed the point the Americans have got it wrong as have every other country have in the world. Regardless of the money involved or the time big projects have inherriant problems.
The differnce could be that certain people go on about "can do " attitude we should have and then denegrate what we do.:rolleyes: It has been along time since I met somebody who in honesty can make such a self contradicting statement. THe can do attitude starts with the individual. We can do better not we can't do it when we are rich so we can never do it.:eek:

We can do better and we have achived so much is where the can do attitude grows from.

MT

On a related note would it not have been possible/made sense to upgrade the M50/M1 junction while the tunnel was being built to minimise conjestion at this point when trucks start to flow through the tunnel?

As for major projects there's no real reason why these can't be executed as well in the Republic as any other country. What has hampered these in the past is a lack of planning and long term thinking. See the inadequate junctions on the M50 and the amount of sprawl that now surrounds it as a prime example.

darkman2

MT wrote:

On a related note would it not have been possible/made sense to upgrade the M50/M1 junction while the tunnel was being built to minimise conjestion at this point when trucks start to flow through the tunnel?

As for major projects there's no real reason why these can't be executed as well in the Republic as any other country. What has hampered these in the past is a lack of planning and long term thinking. See the inadequate junctions on the M50 and the amount of sprawl that now surrounds it as a prime example.

Another prime example of the imcompetence we put up with on a daily basis im afraid. Thats the problem with planning here: imcompetence, corruption and a 'were only Irish we dont deserve it, were only here for the craic' attitude that really p***** me off tbh:mad:

Victor

darkman2 wrote:

If you dont agree with me take a look at the loony plans

Link?

ardmacha

Not all of the US freeway system is well designed. However if they made mistakes in the 1950's or 1960's there seems little reason for us to repeat these mistakes 50 years later given that we can look at what works and what doesn't.

The port tunnel starts off at a different level than the ramp coming from Santry. So hey should have built a slip at that lower lowel which would emerge out on the left hand side of the M1 for people heading for the M50. Not rocket science.

darkman2

Victor wrote:

Link?

It was on the old dublinporttunnel.ie. Convieniently not operating now after the Japenese element of the consortium fled claiming they were being delayed for no apparent reasons. General election next year...........coincidence??? The whole thing to me is a joke. A comedy of errors you couldnt write in a book. M50 - cars dont fit, port tunnel - trucks dont fit, Dublin Airport - passengers dont fit. Ridiculous.

MT

darkman2 wrote:

'were only Irish we dont deserve it, were only here for the craic'

While the construction and design of roads has improved a heck of a lot over the last decade down there the attitude you describe still seems to apply to road signage. Some of the pics I've gathered on the web for the poor signage sticky show the approach in the Republic to be shockingly half-arsed. I really don't believe you could put up more poorly thought out signage if you tried.

spacetweek

darkman2 wrote:

I dunno, there just seems to be an element of stupidity about the whole thing. If your going to build a bloody tunnel make it big enough and wide enough. Not in Ireland though:mad:

There is nothing stupid about the thing - sweeping statements like that tend to come from ill-informed minds.

(1) Not wide enough. When building something like this you have two choices: build it wide enough for unrestricted traffic growth (which would be about 10-12 lanes), or decide on a final number of lanes and restrict traffic levels to the tunnel's capacity. Experience around the world has shown that it is in fact impossible to build a road for unrestricted traffic growth in the long term as there is practically no upper limit. So then the only reasonable approach is to go for 4 lanes or so (as in the PT) and make moves to restrict the amount of traffic permitted to use the structure. I think 4 lanes is perfectly adequate.

(2) Not high enough. Again, you need to decide whether you're going to make the tunnel high enough for all potential vehicles, including ones that are illegal in many countries, or just one big enough for 98% of all trucks, as in the case of the PT. Since the cost of the tunnel rises exponentially as it gets wider, you obviously decide on a reasonable height and ban anything else. And why not? Are we not free to decide on what the max height of a truck should be? So much infrastructure depends on the limit that to not have one is madness. The scrapping of the truck height limit in the 90s was a huge mistake.

Please save your rants for *after* you've done your research! And don't read the Indo.