President MacAleese condemns publication of cartoons

Yook

Linky here.

I myself am completely outraged with this. She doesn't represent me making a statements like the second paragraph on that link. The majority of people who I have talked to about the whole cartoon issue have seemed to be for freedom of speech and supporting Denmark and now France invoking their rightes. And with opposing nations burning down embassies, and making statements like, "Your (Denmark) streets will run with blood." its all a bit much. They should not be able to dictate how we live our lives in our countries. Fair enough, if the article was printed in a majority muslim country it would be fair to retract the article.

What do other people think? Shes gone too far this time.

senordingdong

Everyone has gone too far at this stage.

She is probably just trying to lick some muslim hole in relation to their peacefull protest, during which they saluted and priased the Irish media for nto printing the toons, and condemned the violent protesting.

She probaly figures that appeasing them is the best way to oppose a terrorist attack.

And by the looks of it, she's giving Muslims all over a false impression of Ireland.

Dagnir Glaurung

Yook wrote:

Linky here.

. And with opposing nations burning down embassies, and making statements like, "Your (Denmark) streets will run with blood." its all a bit much. They should not be able to dictate how we live our lives in our countries.

Which nations would this be? I thought the people making these statements were individuals that don't represent the majority?

I'm all for free speech but it should be used with responsibility and not as an excuse to outrage people in order to increase sales. I don't think the cartoons should have been published. I don't really care either way though.

senordingdong

At best this just serves to show the MacAleese is an idiot.

stevenmu

What do you expect in a country so f**ked up that the same people who complained that the government allowing the US use shannon was making us a terrorist target, demanded that a muslim who said the same thing be imprisoned.

Irish people in general have a very poor concept of personal rights and freedoms.

magick

The majority of people who I have talked to about the whole cartoon issue have seemed to be for freedom of speech and supporting Denmark and now France invoking their rightes.

yup completely agree

mickymg2003

Ah poor mary has to make up for the Comparing protestants to Nazi's business.

And this is the woman "we" send out to represent us?!!

RoundyMooney

Oh goody.

And with that another red carpet is rolled out for the hook handed fundaMENTALists and the teetering on the brink moderates like Hussein Halawa, and Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, head of the European Council for Fatwa and Research (of which Halawa is General Secretary) beginning to openly spout their bigotry, including support of suicide bombings, and calls of death to members of the homosexual community, and atheists from the safety of the free world here that they supposedly want no part of...

I'm all for religious diversity and freedom of expression, but this level of pandering is very worrying.

Sangre

Pretty sure she can't make any political statements like that as president. She is supposed to be a neutral person.

RoundyMooney

Don't look now Ms. McAleese, but your PR is slipping...

mickymg2003

RoundyMooney wrote:

Don't look now Ms. McAleese, but your PR is slipping...

As if she cares, She gets a big house and a bigger pension.

RoundyMooney

Sha had that in the first instance, both her husband and herself were financially solvent and comfortable prior to her election.

Her motivation here is to court publicity and keep the office of An tUachtaran in the public eye. Nothing more.

Pythia

I can't believe she made a statement like that.
Any respect I had for her has totally gone down the drain.

bizmark

Yook wrote:

Linky here.

I myself am completely outraged with this. She doesn't represent me making a statements like the second paragraph on that link. The majority of people who I have talked to about the whole cartoon issue have seemed to be for freedom of speech and supporting Denmark and now France invoking their rightes. And with opposing nations burning down embassies, and making statements like, "Your (Denmark) streets will run with blood." its all a bit much. They should not be able to dictate how we live our lives in our countries. Fair enough, if the article was printed in a majority muslim country it would be fair to retract the article.

What do other people think? Shes gone too far this time.

Agreed its just another example of the normal western out of touch uber pc goverment

is_that_so

Interesting what offends some people. This is known as free speech, don't knock it. Saying that at an economic conference in Jeddah makes perfect sense to me.

RoundyMooney

bizmark wrote:

Agreed its just another example of the normal western out of touch uber pc goverment

It's funny (peculiar) in a way. I'm convinced that there is a PC backlash coming down the line, and soon. The UK government is one of the most prominent examples of this PC nonsense, as it seems is the US, what with various ridiculous local (and national) government decrees making the news week in week out. A lot of people are becoming very disenfranchised with talk of banning Christmas references etc., and spurious cases coming before the courts. If and when the pendulum swings the other way, it's not going to be pretty, and minorities with genuine concerns will be worse off then before.

The happy compromise can be hard to find.

Rovi

See attached image, tbh.

.

toString

I'm just glad that most of the immigration to this country is from Poland. I wouldn't like to see the problems seen in France repeated here.

mike65

Make ones feelings known here

Mike.

InFront

Sangre wrote:

Pretty sure she can't make any political statements like that as president. She is supposed to be a neutral person.

No while her passport may be under Bertie's thumb, her mouth is her own deadly weapon!!

However on this particular topic, Mary does deserve a clap on the back. Those drawings were wrong. They didnt just insult a Muslim prophet, but Islam itself. I dont think she's condemning it because she's afraid of islam, or because she thinks some boy from Finglas will run into Dail Eireann screaming Jihad Muhammad Allah Allah, she said it because insulting anybody's faith is wrong.

If Northern Protestants drew pictures like that which insulted Northern Catholics, and it was printed in Denmark, would you want your President to say nothing? Remain silent. Ireland has, actually, got a Muslim population. My Dads a Muslim and votes here, Id like to think old Mary was just considering his feelings.

Mary Mac is from Ardoyne, Im sure both that upbringing and her training as a lawyer and an academic on laws have taught her the importance of respect in the community. Local or global.

And by the way Im not deliberately trying to be PC about this, I really think Muslims have a point on this issue, fair play to the prez

senordingdong

InFront wrote:

I really think Muslims have a point on this issue, fair play to the prez

I disagree.
This is something typical of western society. If people that aren't from the west don't like this, then they shouldn't live in the west.

Willymuncher

I tend to agree with her, those cartoons were published to insult and provoke, the papers printing them knew heads were going to roll and this is where the freedom of speech excuse just doesn't do it for me. Its plain old ignorance, and it was shown all throughout Europe, it was an irresponsible thing to do....there was always going to be a backlash to this, and that had to have been known.

I don't support what many Islamic extremists did afterwards, but I also have no support for people who as plain as day provoke this kind of behaviour. We should respect others, given todays troubles in the world this was not needed.

InFront

senordingdong wrote:

I disagree.
This is something typical of western society. If people that aren't from the west don't like this, then they shouldn't live in the west.

Put up or shut up?

senordingdong

Willymuncher wrote:

I tend to agree with her, those cartoons were published to insult and provoke,

Even though they went un-noticed for months.
There was a joke made about 'Muhammod' in the Simpsons years ago, that also wen't un-noticed.
This is a case of immature members of an immature religion lashing out childishly.

senordingdong

InFront wrote:

Put up or shut up?

Basically, yeah.
There are alot of aspects of eastern society that I don't like.
So I won't go there.
And if I did, how do you think people would react if I started demanding they change their ways to suit mine? SO that I could have a drink in my home or deman my children be thought about Chirstianity in school?

is_that_so

Isn't this how the Muslims might have felt ? Offended amd aggrieved. Free speech works both ways.

BuffyBot

Ermm, she's at an conference in Jeddah, in Saudi Arabia..exactly what would you think she'd say? "Nah-nah-nah-nah-nah you're a bunch of over-reacting idiots!"?

toString

Willymuncher wrote:

I tend to agree with her, those cartoons were published to insult and provoke

I have to laugh at that! It was purely political comment on the extreme nature of the religion.

Willymuncher

senordingdong wrote:

Even though they went un-noticed for months.
There was a joke made about 'Muhammod' in the Simpsons years ago, that also wen't un-noticed.
This is a case of immature members of an immature religion lashing out childishly.

There are immature people on both sides tbh. These were printed all over Europe, I'd have a different view if it was just one paper in a single country. This was not only showing a picture of Mohammed, but also depicting him as some sort of terrorist, which we have to understand (even though its hard to) is a terrible insult to Islam.

Atrocity

^^^
Hear hear. I have a response but I'm afraid my computer will blow itself up if I say what I'm thinking. You can't be too careful.

InFront

senordingdong wrote:

Basically, yeah.
There are alot of aspects of eastern society that I don't like.
So I won't go there.
QUOTE]

Eastern society? Im talking about respect for Muslims born in Dublin. Im sure Mary McAleese were thinking of Irish Muslims when she made that statement.

And if I did, how do you think people would react if I started demanding they change their ways to suit mine? SO that I could have a drink in my home or deman my children be thought about Chirstianity in school?

1. If you drank in your own home, they would react by doing nothing. If you drank in a pub, got plastered and staggered home, I doubt they'r react much differently. I cant guarantee that - I cant guarantee I could get drunk on O Connell St and walk home safely either, though.

2.As for "demanding" having your kids being taught Christianity there, Im sure you'd only have to ask the director of one of the Christian schools politely mate.

Free speech worsk both ways.

Exactly. And all anybody is asking for is respect anyway.

Binomate

Time for a new ribbon cutter of Ireland (President). Preferably someone with enough balls to stand up to a bunch of angry Muslims.

adonis

senordingdong wrote:

Basically, yeah.
There are alot of aspects of eastern society that I don't like.
So I won't go there.
And if I did, how do you think people would react if I started demanding they change their ways to suit mine? SO that I could have a drink in my home or deman my children be thought about Chirstianity in school?

this here is really progressive!!!
lets get mac aleese to abdicate her throne in the park and replace her with senordingdong!
The people that protested are allowed to protest, as is their right (freedom of speech)
All they are saying is that they dont want their prophet depicted like that. Are they not allowed to do that?

senordingdong

Eastern society? Im talking about respect for Muslims born in Dublin. Im sure Mary McAleese were thinking of Irish Muslims when she made that statement.

And do you think the whole country should change it's ways to suit Islam?
I very much doubht it. She was keeping political and economic ties sweet.

1. If you drank in your own home, they would react by doing nothing. If you drank in a pub, got plastered and staggered home, I doubt they'r react much differently. I cant guarantee that - I cant guarantee I could get drunk on O Connell St and walk home safely either, though.

2.As for "demanding" having your kids being taught Christianity there, Im sure you'd only have to ask the director of one of the Christian schools politely mate.

Is alcohol not illeagal by Islamic law?

And I'm sure the Chrisitain schools are ten a penny.

senordingdong

adonis wrote:

All they are saying is that they dont want their prophet depicted like that. Are they not allowed to do that?

Ofcourse they are.
But that is not all they are saying.

InFront

senordingdong wrote:

And do you think the whole country should change it's ways to suit Islam?

I dont think this country should change its ways at all. In terms of civil rights, Ireland suits Islam down to the ground, it's a great place! I just hope that doesn't change, and as long as people like Mary Mac keep on speaking out against disrespect be it 9/11 or the cartoons wrongly depicting islam as a terrorism infested 'cult', then we'll all be happy, right?

Is alcohol not illeagal by Islamic law?

Yes under islamic moral teaching, alcohol is wrong. But you can still buy drink in countries that have a Muslim population.

And I'm sure the Chrisitain schools are ten a penny.

Mweh, cant speak for everywhere (Islam is a world religion...) but Christian schools in places I know are much more common than Muslim schools here in Ireland

Senordingdong if these were an Irish-Muslim series of cartoons making objectionable insinuations about the catholic/ christian faith and laughing at the christian way of life, and published in the RTE Guide or The Independant, how would you feel. Would you expect a politician to comment?

Dave!

1. She said "I abhor the pictures", not "Ireland abhors the pictures". While she is supposed to represent us, she was asked for and gave her own personal opinion, what's she to do, lie?

2. As someone said -- at a conference in Saudi Arabia, if she started thumbing her nose at them, it might not go down well Might be dangerous, in fact. She's only the president, not the Taoiseach, so she doesn't choose the policies of the state, and so it's different Bertie saying what she said, since he can back it up and it can come back to him.


(As a side-note, I think that every newspaper should publish the pictures, and we should all stop being afraid of Islam. What's the next step, do we start making women wear Burkas?)

The Shol'va

OK, a Danish newspaper prints cartoons that are offensive to Islam and its followers. A bunch of them protest against the cartoons, boycott Danish goods and some even burn down an embassy or two.

Is that not completely overreacting?

How many times is Catholicism and Christianity in general mocked in incredibly offensive manners? Should we boycott all American goods because Drawn Together shows God using a glory hole? Should we march through the streets with banners? Should we torch the American embassy?

It's one thing to be offended by something, but this is completely over the top and McAleese is doing the typical Irish thing and kissing their asses, just like our government kisses everyone's ass so everything stays nice and friendly.

She doesn't speak for me, I am in no way "abhorred" by the cartoons, I don't give a **** about them.

Yook

DaveMcG wrote:

1. She said "I abhor the pictures", not "Ireland abhors the pictures". While she is supposed to represent us, she was asked for and gave her own personal opinion, what's she to do, lie?

2. As someone said -- at a conference in Saudi Arabia, if she started thumbing her nose at them, it might not go down well Might be dangerous, in fact. She's only the president, not the Taoiseach, so she doesn't choose the policies of the state, and so it's different Bertie saying what she said, since he can back it up and it can come back to him.


(As a side-note, I think that every newspaper should publish the pictures, and we should all stop being afraid of Islam. What's the next step, do we start making women wear Burkas?)

She is the figure head of Ireland. It doesn't matter if she says I or we, otherwise there would be no point in having a president. She represents us. She shouldn't be visiting a country that entises anti-western behaviour and personally giving a personal ass kissing oppinion. You know there are more than just the muslim minority that she has to stand up for, she has to stand up for all of us non muslims aswell. I dont agree with her. She's (as someone said) denting her PR over here by giving in to people over there. The world is completely split at the moment, its not a good time for her to be throwing around her 'peronsal oppinion'.

Piste

She was in Saudi Araiba. One of the most Muslim states in the world. I doubt she would have gotten out of there alive had she not condemned the cartoons.

InFront

Yook wrote:

She shouldn't be visiting a country that entises anti-western behaviour and personally giving a personal ass kissing oppinion.

Alright so we should all stick to where we came from? Thats racial seperatism, yook. What about the Danish magazine that enticed anti-Islamic reactionism?

The president was right to comment, publishing those pictures showed a blatent lack of respect for religion, not just Islam. It's a big deal because Muslims are especially vulnerable at the moment as easy targets for those who cannot distinguish between peaceful followers of Islam and ignorent defectors

OK, a Danish newspaper prints cartoons that are offensive to Islam and its followers. A bunch of them protest against the cartoons, boycott Danish goods and some even burn down an embassy or two.

Is that not completely overreacting?

Protesting against the cartoon: no
Boycotting Danish goods: maybe
Burning the embassy: over reacting and carried out by a small number of vandals who are clearly not real Muslims

Yook

Piste wrote:

She was in Saudi Araiba. One of the most Muslim states in the world. I doubt she would have gotten out of there alive had she not condemned the cartoons.

The point I was making is that she shouldn't be visiting Saudi Arabia at all if they promote this sort of thing. Well then they obviously do overreact then if she should fear for her life making a pro danish point.

Dave!

Yook wrote:

She is the figure head of Ireland. It doesn't matter if she says I or we, otherwise there would be no point in having a president. She represents us. She shouldn't be visiting a country that entises anti-western behaviour and personally giving a personal ass kissing oppinion. You know there are more than just the muslim minority that she has to stand up for, she has to stand up for all of us non muslims aswell. I dont agree with her, Saudi and you're crap about her not representing us. She's (as someone said) denting her PR over here by giving in to people over there. The world is completely split at the moment, its not a good time for her to be throwing around her 'peronsal oppinion'.

Dry your eyes mate, I clearly said "While she is supposed to represent us", so don't misquote me and then get aggressive.

What would you have suggested that she said when asked "What is your opinion on the Danish cartoons depicting Muhammed with a bomb on his head?"

She's a diplomat, she doesn't set policy for this state, so I think her answer was justified. Maybe she was expecting "What does Ireland think of the cartoons?" and she might have had the reply that you'd like, complete with the opinion poll she carried out to gather the information, but she was asked her own opinion, so she gave it, and then followed it up with a condemnation of the violence, essentially saying that she agrees with the Muslim community, but that Ireland and herself think ye're out of order for burning sh!t -- a reasonably balanced reply, considering the question.

And as I said, she was at a conference in Saudi Arabia, and she's only the president. There's no need for her to start giving a speech about how Muslims need to get over it and keep with the times of the Western World -- it's dangerous and unnecessary, since she's the president, not the Taoiseach.

Piste

Dammit this thread is really making me want a Danish Pastry

shuushh

shes not exactly going to stand up in the most fundamentalist Islamic state in the world and go off on one, she was being diplomatic while also condeming the violent protesting

InFront

shuushh wrote:

shes not exactly going to stand up in the most fundamentalist Islamic state in the world and go off on one, she was being diplomatic while also condeming the violent protesting

is it so unbelievable that what she said about abhorring those pictures might actually be her genuine opinion? If she has a problem with a picture depicting Muslims as terrorists, why do some of you find that offensive??

I love the quote on the right "Ireland abhors publication". Of all sorts?

On a serious note, I wish people would get over themselves. Both sides of the issue have a lot of immature people getting too offended over too little.

The cartoons were "designed to provoke, to be rude and to inflame."
And I should hope that "the Muslim community in Ireland shared with the Irish community an equal abhorrence at the use of violent protest" since it's uncalled for and taking things WAY too far.

What on earth is everyone's problem?

fly_agaric

shuushh wrote:

shes not exactly going to stand up in the most fundamentalist Islamic state in the world and go off on one, she was being diplomatic while also condeming the violent protesting

I bet the trade mission were also praying (to Allah?) that she wouldn't say anything that might be construed as being in support of publishing the Cartoons of Satan.

RoundyMooney

InFront wrote:

The president was right to comment, publishing those pictures showed a blatent lack of respect for religion, not just Islam. It's a big deal because Muslims are especially vulnerable at the moment as easy targets for those who cannot distinguish between peaceful followers of Islam and ignorent defectors

I have no problem with peaceful advocates of any religion. However an increasingly large volume of zealots who happen to come under the banner of Islam, are rightly portrayed as war-mongering idiots who have not progressed significantly in a thousand years. Extremism in any religion does more harm than good. Would you have us all bend the knee to fundamentalism of any sort rather than be seen to be disrespectful? Don't make me laugh. When the muslim hordes who agree with violence of any form stop being sheep and actually show themselves capable of reasonable independent thought, then they will have earned my respect. It is also interesting that the genuine grievances that the Middle East has vis a vis Western interference in its affairs is almost never mentioned. These lemmings have their priorities all wrong, and they deserve the publicity they court. The moderate Islam majority is noticeably quiet this weather doncha think?

You can turn the other cheek if you want, all four...

RoundyMooney

RoundyMooney wrote:

I have no problem with peaceful advocates of any religion. However an increasingly large volume of zealots who happen to come under the banner of Islam, are rightly portrayed as war-mongering idiots who have not progressed significantly in a thousand years. Extremism in any religion does more harm than good. Would you have us all bend the knee to fundamentalism of any sort rather than be seen to be disrespectful? Don't make me laugh. When the muslim hordes who agree with violence of any form stop being sheep and actually show themselves capable of reasonable independent thought, then they will have earned my respect. It is also interesting that the genuine grievances that the Middle East has vis a vis Western interference in its affairs is almost never mentioned. These lemmings have their priorities all wrong, and they deserve the publicity they court. The moderate Islam majority is noticeably quiet this weather doncha think?

You can turn the other cheek if you want, all four...

Did you miss the part where she condemned the violent protesting?

Binomate

I'd say if 'The Irish Times' were the originators of the images she'd be the first one down on her knees begging for her life.