Do Irish people really like cars ?

RobAMerc

Having travelled and lived in a few spots around the globe, I have come to realize that the car really doesn't feature that high in the average Irish persons loves.

By this I mean, actually understand and appreciate the car they drive or know and undestand driving techniques, not just care it's newer that the Jones's.

As a percentage how many Irish people would be able to tell whats the difference between a v8 versus 8v, or what torque steer is for example compared to our neighbours in the UK or Europe.

I ask this because I rarely meet somebody with any real clue about the car they drive( Despite knowing the owners of some expensive machinery).
Yet everyone is an expert when giving advice. (Just look through this forum at some of the shockers, based purely on unfounded opinions in some cases)

Also the shocking state of the majority of 4+ year old cars out there (Interior too, so state of road aside) shows a total lack of respect for our cars.

Don't get me wrong, there is a genuinely interested and knowledgeable group of people out there supporting a healthy club and competitive scene, I am talking about the relationship between the car and the average Irish person.

Does anyone here agree?

Rob

Silvera

I agree.

The state of most 3-4+ yr old cars is sad. A lot of Irish people lose complete interest in looking after their cars after a couple of years.
The 'new' factor has faded and they regard their cars as 'old'.

Compare this to New Zealand. I lived there in 2004 and it was amazing to see how well maintained and clean most cars there are. I bought a 1988 1.8 Bluebird to tour around in and I can safely say that it was in better condition than many 4 yr old cars in Ireland!

P.S - I know a "little" about cars .......being an ex-Panel Beater

Good topic !

Cheers,
Silvera.

My (well-maintained!) 3 yr old wheels .......

Litcagral

Question: What kind of car do you drive?

Irish Answer: Oh it's a zero six.


:(:(:(:(

Thre is also a tendency to focus too much on resale values. I buy a car because I like it. I couldn't give a toss what the resale value will be.

curiosity

OP, to many people a car is just a means to get from A to B, nothing more. Not everyones priorities are the same. I do accept that some people could look after their cars better, but that's their affair, not mine.

I have no real clue about the difference between v8 and 8v. As for driving technique, I know enough to keep it between the ditches. For the record I drive a 13 year old golf with 176,000 miles on the clock. It's worth a weeks wages, and as long as it starts tomorrow morning, I'm happy.

colm_mcm

funny, the UK is completely different to us when it comes to cars! a couple of examples:

1) on medium sized cars (mondeo avensis vectra) UK buys about 95%hatchbacks and 5% saloons, the Irish figure is reversed

2) Due to tax implications, Irish people will mostly buy the smallest engine size possible. whereas in the UK 1.8 Astras are quite common.

3) The percentage of people with company cars in the UK is a couple of times higher than in Ireland

mike65

curiosity wrote:

I drive a 13 year old golf with 176,000 miles on the clock. It's worth a weeks wages, and as long as it starts tomorrow morning, I'm happy.

Much to be said for this attitude.

As for automotive culture, yes its true and there's no great mystery for it. For decades as other western societies became "motorised" the Irish were hacking about in whatever could be afforded on a low income knowing it would be driven on shocking boreens. Its only in the last 10-15 years things have changed in terms of income (and roads) but culture takes much longer...

Mike.

RobAMerc

curiosity wrote:

OP, to many people a car is just a means to get from A to B, nothing more. Not everyones priorities are the same. I do accept that some people could look after their cars better, but that's their affair, not mine.

I have no real clue about the difference between v8 and 8v. As for driving technique, I know enough to keep it between the ditches. For the record I drive a 13 year old golf with 176,000 miles on the clock. It's worth a weeks wages, and as long as it starts tomorrow morning, I'm happy.

You are quite entitled not to, I just pose the question why is it as a nation so few of us are interested in actually knowing or properly caring for our cars ?
It is the 2nd biggest envestment most of us will ever make!

Just a matter of interest, why are you reading threads in motoring section if you don't care about cars ?

Rob

PauloMN

colm_mcm wrote:

2) Due to tax implications, Irish people will mostly buy the smallest engine size possible. whereas in the UK 1.8 Astras are quite common.

This also results in car manufacturers selling 1.6 engined variants of mid-size family cars in Ireland, indeed they have to do so. It's a pity that our government sees fit to punish someone who chooses even a 1.8 litre family car over a 1.6 litre. The 1.6 litre Avensis or Vectra, just as examples, cannot even be purchased in the UK where the smallest engine available for either of these cars is a 1.8 litre.

curiosity

RobAMerc wrote:

You are quite entitled not to, I just pose the question why is it as a nation so few of us are interested in actually knowing or properly caring for our cars ?
It is the 2nd biggest envestment most of us will ever make!

Just a matter of interest, why are you reading threads in motoring section if you don't care about cars ?

Rob

Rob, I never said I don't care about cars. I actually do feel guilty about not giving my wheels more TLC, so I do accept your point. What people drive and their attitude to cars and driving interests me. I work in an office of about 500 people. Some of the top earners drive quite modest cars, while people earning far less drive very nice cars. Everyone differs.

Personally, at the moment I find driving an old wreck to be just fine. I'm not going to go potty if someone bangs into it with a shopping trolley. I've driven this car for over 10 years so I have gone thru many attitudes to cars. No great hurry to fork out the guts of a years wages for a new one just yet.

How many people need to know to difference between 8v and v8? I assume that this only refers to more powerful cars, which most people will never drive. And what do most people need to know about 'driving technique'? The only technique most need is an ability to handle their vehicle sensibly, while showing manners and consideration to other road users.

Btw, I would not consider a car an investment.

Squirrel

I'm not knowlegable when it comes to cars, though I am always willing to learn, and want to be a mechanic when I'm older. In my family the MR2 gets alot of TLC, whereas the Sonata gets nowhere near as much, but it still is in good condition compared to other 3 year old cars. The only problems are a few dings from other doors hitting it.

The MR2 is 13 years old come March 1st and the only problem we ever had with it in 5 years of ownership is the alternator going.

A 13 year old car Might have something to do with it being a sports car that it gets its attention

RobAMerc

Curiosity, I agree the car you drive very often has no reflection on the money you earn, or indeed what you know or understand about cars, but you seem to be missing my point.

That is, Irish people in general don't care about or have a low understanding of cars,(other than perhaps the bling value) and as a population have a low percentage of people who do.

BTW I believe you do invest in a car, you pay for it and get returns ( ie transport, enjoyment etc) and hope to get something for it when your finished, otherwise your simply flushing cash down the jax

Mike: Well put, I'm worried you might know me too well, I have been saying exactly that for years.

Rob

curiosity

RobAMerc wrote:

Curiosity, I agree the car you drive very often has no reflection on the money you earn, or indeed what you know or understand about cars, but you seem to be missing my point.

That is, Irish people in general don't care about or have a low understanding of cars,(other than perhaps the bling value) and as a population have a low percentage of people who do.

BTW I believe you do invest in a car, you pay for it and get returns ( ie transport, enjoyment etc) and hope to get something for it when your finished, otherwise your simply flushing cash down the jax

Mike: Well put, I'm worried you might know me too well, I have been saying exactly that for years.

Rob

Perhaps I am. I would like to know what exactly you mean by 'understanding', though. Do you mean people who drive high end cars and who don't appreciate the technical and engineering refinements that set their car apart from most others on the road? Or do you mean a simple inability to change a tyre or check their oil level?

For me, the term 'investment' implies common sense. You invest in a house, hoping/knowing that it will still have the same value in ten years time. A business invests in equipment, people etc in order to make money. You buy a new car, drive it for 10 years, it earns you nothing, and it's lost almost all its value. You keep it for 5 years and it loses over half its value. Agreed, concepts like enjoyment are intangible.

Take a Mondeo LX vs a BMW 318d ES. Both 2 litre 4 door saloons. Both do more or less the same thing. But the Mondeo is listed at €29,165 on ford.ie and the 318 is listed at €42,400 on bmw.ie. Yet I am sure many people this year will spend the extra 13 grand on the BMW, mainly because of the image. Over the course of five years the BMW owner loses more money in depreciation. Hopefully he/she enjoys the car, but paying 13 grand for a badge is not an investment in my book, its a luxury ( and a personal choice, happy motoring to all new and old beemer drivers out there).

franksm

Ah reckon you're asking the wrong people
We here love our cars so would be in the minority in actually taking a proper interest in them. That's why there are so many "eccentric" cars evident here

What tends to happen with the general public is a strange sort of celtic-tiger-lemming mentality: once they get a whiff of money, they immediately go out and buy a BMW 3 series. And from there it's a variation on a theme - BMW 1 series - who in their right mind would buy one of these ? The only good thing about them is that they are rear-wheel-drive. Other than that, it's crappy plastics inside, and very cramped. Just a badge I think. People buying Alfas and that kind of thing - I respect them for thinking a little bit outside the box.

Squirrel

franksm wrote:

Ah reckon you're asking the wrong people
We here love our cars so would be in the minority in actually taking a proper interest in them. That's why there are so many "eccentric" cars evident here

What tends to happen with the general public is a strange sort of celtic-tiger-lemming mentality: once they get a whiff of money, they immediately go out and buy a BMW 3 series. And from there it's a variation on a theme - BMW 1 series - who in their right mind would buy one of these ? The only good thing about them is that they are rear-wheel-drive. Other than that, it's crappy plastics inside, and very cramped. Just a badge I think. People buying Alfas and that kind of thing - I respect them for thinking a little bit outside the box.

You also need to thin about the other end of that. For a company car my dad had so much money to spend, so he bought a well equipped Hyundai., not a purists car by any stretch of the imagination. Yet in the '80s he was quicker around Mondello in an Alfasud than others were in Ferraris, so clearly likes his driving

BrianD3

I agree with the previous posts. Irish people generally don't give a crap about their cars. Not only that, they don't give a crap about their driving and take no pride in driving well or with mechanical sympathy etc. They have no respect for anyone elses cars either hence the whacking of doors and hit and runs in car parks. Ever notice how many cars here have big ugly scuffs on the corners of the front bumper? Most of this is due to lazy, sloppy, parking. They swing the car into a space and scrape along the car beside them, damaging it and their own car but they don't give a crap

Also they cannot be arsed learning about how a car works then they get bamboozled when something goes wrong and they have to bring it to a garage. Then they cry "rip off" even though how do they know they're being ripped off seeing as they know **** all about cars? Not saying that there aren't garages out there who will rip people off but I have heard sob stories from people accusing garges of ripping them off when clearly it wasn't the case. Likewise they start moaning with conspiracy theroies when their POS car fails the NCT.

I agree that many 3-4 year old cars are in a shocking state - even the interiors! Fag burns, food stains, torn upholstery, scuffed and broken trim. How do they manage to wreck the interior in such a short time?

Final thing i'll say is that many people regard those who are into their cars as being a bit sad :rolleyes::mad: I think the logic is that if you are into spending some money/time on a car then you have less time/money to spend getting hammered down the pub, so you must be sad :rolleyes: I think this is a good illustration of sheep mentality. Idiots.

Squirrel

BrianD3 wrote:

Also they cannot be arsed learning about how a car works then they get bamboozled when something goes wrong and they have to bring it to a garage.

Alot of electrics are in cars nowadays, so when something goes wrong it might have to be left up to a garage

Then again, I know my mam drives with no mechanical sympathy, if the clutch went she wouldn't know what to do, my brother wouldn't be as bad, but my dad, who failed his test first time had to get the car to a garage with a ****ed clutch. The other 2 passed first time, then again, when my dad passed the gear linkage broke and he had to limp back to the test centre, so the test was reduced in time dramatically, and the tester was impressed he made it back

RobAMerc

Ok Curiosity, I am not going to get into the symantics of the term investment with you, perhaps I should have phrased it 'purchase'. It is off the topic entirely.

With regard to peoples understanding of cars.
Firstly I am not talking specifically about owners of high end cars.

By understanding I mean they don't appreciate why one car is better than another car, other than the fact it costs more and other people give them kudos for owning one. Some do rate perhaps reliability, but few know why from a dynamics point of view.

Have a conversation with an average 30 y.o. German/Fr/Italian bloke about some car, I bet they know a bit about it, or ask them about a mark 1 golf gti an Alfa Sud or Citroen ds. I bet they will have a good idea what it is your talking about, and have some appreciation for what it is.

You rarely find Irish people with the same appreciation.

Frank:
I am glad to hear of an MX5 club in Ireland, I hope to join you roofless guys soon if at all possible, I intend on having some wind blow through my hair ( read eyebrows ) soon and I want an MX5 to right a wrong I did some years ago!

Rob

RobAMerc

Brian D3,

I like the cut of your jib

I could have written a thousand words an could not have put it better.
No point in quoting parts of your post, I agree with it all!

Rob

curiosity

BrianD3 wrote:

I agree with the previous posts. Irish people generally don't give a crap about their cars. Not only that, they don't give a crap about their driving and take no pride in driving well or with mechanical sympathy etc. They have no respect for anyone elses cars either hence the whacking of doors and hit and runs in car parks. Ever notice how many cars here have big ugly scuffs on the corners of the front bumper? Most of this is due to lazy, sloppy, parking. They swing the car into a space and scrape along the car beside them, damaging it and their own car but they don't give a crap

Also they cannot be arsed learning about how a car works then they get bamboozled when something goes wrong and they have to bring it to a garage. Then they cry "rip off" even though how do they know they're being ripped off seeing as they know **** all about cars? Not saying that there aren't garages out there who will rip people off but I have heard sob stories from people accusing garges of ripping them off when clearly it wasn't the case. Likewise they start moaning with conspiracy theroies when their POS car fails the NCT.

I agree that many 3-4 year old cars are in a shocking state - even the interiors! Fag burns, food stains, torn upholstery, scuffed and broken trim. How do they manage to wreck the interior in such a short time?

Final thing i'll say is that many people regard those who are into their cars as being a bit sad :rolleyes::mad: I think the logic is that if you are into spending some money/time on a car then you have less time/money to spend getting hammered down the pub, so you must be sad :rolleyes: I think this is a good illustration of sheep mentality. Idiots.

Hmmmm, I missed the 6:00pm news so I didn't hear about your appointment as our new car minister Brian. If 'POS' means 'piece of s**t' then I wonder why you get so worked up about how total strangers to you treat their property. Do you spend your day peering into peoples cars? I'm sure you have a lovely car/cars and that you enjoy driving and owning it. Concentrate on that and stop fulminating about those of us who don't share your passion.


Rob, all those countries you named have domestic car industries. They are all on continental Europe and are all left hand drive states. Surely this means a person living there will see a greater range of cars??Also, 30 year old males generally are more interested in cars than your average person. (as a 33 year old guy I would know and appreciate all the cars you named there, for aesthetic reasons at least). And yes, reliability is important to people, and rightly so. Fat lot of good 'dynamics' are to you when your car won't start on a Monday morning and you can't get to work.

franksm

RobAMerc wrote:

Frank:
I am glad to hear of an MX5 club in Ireland, I hope to join you roofless guys soon if at all possible, I intend on having some wind blow through my hair ( read eyebrows ) soon and I want an MX5 to right a wrong I did some years ago!

Rob

Hey Rob, glad to hear it! Now's the time to buy, the market for convertibles is depressed in winter. You can pick one up in the UK cheaply enough, and even with VRT, put it on the road for 4 to 5K. Insurance is the only beeatch with MX5s tho. Have you spotted a car you want ? Or maybe have just started looking ? You can of course buy one locally but they cost a bit more.

You're welcome to come out and chew the fat with us - first Wednesday of the month at Strawberry Hall pub, around 8pm. Or first Sunday of the month at Pope's Cross, Phoenix Park at noon.

There a couple of other Merc-heads in the group too - one nut with an '88 190D (plus a Beetle, plus a 2CV (fergawdsake)), and another guy with a much more recent E-class something-or-other.

BrianD3

curiosity wrote:

Hmmmm, I missed the 6:00pm news so I didn't hear about your appointment as our new car minister Brian. If 'POS' means 'piece of s**t' then I wonder why you get so worked up about how total strangers to you treat their property. Do you spend your day peering into peoples cars? I'm sure you have a lovely car/cars and that you enjoy driving and owning it. Concentrate on that and stop fulminating about those of us who don't share your passion.

First of all, the topic is about how Irish people treat their cars not how I personally treat my own car. So yeah, I will post about how total strangers treat their vehicles.

Also if you read the post again and the POS comment that was about people who come up with all kinds of conspiracy theories as to why their car failed the NCT. When in fact the car failed because it was a ball of crap. I get to listen to these sob stories all the time and people don't like it when the truth is pointed out to them.

Finally yes it directly affects me if people don't respect their cars. Because I find that if someone doesnt respect their own property their not going to respect mine either. See comment about car park damage. You can bet that it's not car enthusiasts who are whacking their cars and doors off other vehicles in car parks.

curiosity

BrianD3 wrote:

First of all, the topic is about how Irish people treat their cars not how I personally treat my own car. So yeah, I will post about how total strangers treat their vehicles.

Also if you read the post again and the POS comment that was about people who come up with all kinds of conspiracy theories as to why their car failed the NCT. When in fact the car failed because it was a ball of crap. I get to listen to these sob stories all the time and people don't like it when the truth is pointed out to them.

Finally yes it directly affects me if people don't respect their cars. Because I find that if someone doesnt respect their own property their not going to respect mine either. See comment about car park damage. You can bet that it's not car enthusiasts who are whacking their cars and doors off other vehicles in car parks.

1. The next time someone bends your ear about why their car failed the NCT, don't listen!!! Just laugh to yourself about their misfortune.
2. Do not generalise about other car owners. Lack of respect for other peoples property goes across all car types.

mike65

Shesh, lighten up.

Mike.

Max_Damage

Don't mean to break up the 'debate' here, but I would have to agree with the poster of this thread. I being a temporary car valter (between college), I see first hand the condition of cars, and the majority people don't care about there cars whatsoever. Even a '00 or '01 car would look like something that's well over 15 years old. Just go over to the States, and cars from the 70's and 80's are still regualrly seen, some even before that. Here, seeing a car on the old Irish plates nearly turns heads at this stage, because they are becoming quite rare.

I myself have a 16 year old Micra, and looking around at the other cars, I have one of the oldest machine on the road, and most other cars of that age are in fairly rough condition.

I guess it's all a mater of personal interest.

ds20prefecture

In my experience Irish people (and it's a big generalisation) do not so much like cars as what their car says about them. Otherwise more people would buy the an RX8 instead of a 320ci, or a Fiat Panda instead of a Yaris, or a Citroën C6 instead of a S320. In all of these cases, the "alternatives" are cheaper, better engineered, more interesting and more stylish cars. Nobody is taught to aspire to a Mazda, a Fiat or a Citroën and sadly - like all nouveau riche - we car more about appearing to "have arrived" than enjoying the journey itself.

maidhc

Max_Damage wrote:

Just go over to the States, and cars from the 70's and 80's are still regualrly seen, some even before that.

I spent a while in the states, and I dont know if they are an example of how to mind cars. They cannot park over there (a fact readily admitted by my colleagues there!), and the rear colour coded bumper of any car over 6mths is destroyed!

I dont think the Irish are all that bad at minding cars, but they dont have much pride in what they drive and dont appear to get any pleasure from it. You can get some beautiful cars in the secondhand market if you are in no rush about buying though. Top of the range cars and anything with a decent engine seems to depreciate like hell.

bazz26

I have to agree with the OP.

I was half thinking of trading up my own car. My current car is 3 years old and approaching 80k miles. Was looking at 2005 cars as I am moving house towards the end of the year so don't want to be wasting money on a new car.

Anyway I was going around a few places today (which were closed) just having a look, without being approached by salespeople. Some of the 05 cars I was looking at were in terrible condition, these had alot of scratches, scuffs on the bumpers, alloy wheels and doors and some of the interiors were just shabby. They had a lack of care look all over them. Even though my own car has covered almost 80k miles, while not getting ridiculously overprotective about my car, I do try to look after it, get it serviced on time, careful how/where I park it and wash/polish it regularly. It is in better condition than some of the 2005 cars I was looking at today.

Obviously not all cars are like this but it got me thinking that I might stick with what I have.

maidhc

bazz26 wrote:

I was half thinking of trading up my own car. My current car is 3 years old and approaching 80k miles.

80k is nothing!

I am always careful about where I park, but on 2 occasions in the past 5 years i have come back to find a door bent in from some idiot in a 4x4 trying to park (and it was a 4x4 by the paint marks)... and that is without mentioning the time scumbags jumped on my bonnet, and kicked in the wing.

bazz26

maidhc wrote:

80k is nothing!

I am always careful about where I park, but on 2 occasions in the past 5 years i have come back to find a door bent in from some idiot in a 4x4 trying to park (and it was a 4x4 by the paint marks)... and that is without mentioning the time scumbags jumped on my bonnet, and kicked in the wing.

I know that but the average mileage for a 3 year old petrol car is around 40k-50k miles.

I have a small little dent on my front passenger side door alright where some muppet obviously hit it with theirs. Judging by the position of it I would say it was a 4x4 or van. Thankfully though it didn't break the paint so it was better to leave it alone.

RobAMerc

ds20prefecture wrote:

In my experience Irish people (and it's a big generalisation) do not so much like cars as what their car says about them. Otherwise more people would buy the an RX8 instead of a 320ci, or a Fiat Panda instead of a Yaris, or a Citroën C6 instead of a S320. In all of these cases, the "alternatives" are cheaper, better engineered, more interesting and more stylish cars. Nobody is taught to aspire to a Mazda, a Fiat or a Citroën and sadly - like all nouveau riche - we car more about appearing to "have arrived" than enjoying the journey itself.

Ds, my sentiments exactly, unfortunately though buying a panda or C6 while at the time would be considered the 'thinking mans' choice, would result in tears when it came to changing car as your average Irish car dealer would beat you with it like a big stick !

You would have a more involving time owning it though.

Squirrel

RobAMerc wrote:

Ds, my sentiments exactly, unfortunately though buying a panda or C6 while at the time would be considered the 'thinking mans' choice, would result in tears when it came to changing car as your average Irish car dealer would beat you with it like a big stick !

You would have a more involving time owning it though.

That's why you keep it in good condition so it doesn't need to be replaced after 3/4 years

kluivert

Ok as no one has answered i may as well the one to.

A V8 refers to the number a clyinders the has ie 8, the V relates the arrangement of these cylinders in a V shape ie four and four "V",

For all you BMW drivers BMW tend to perfer a "straight" 6 cylinder combination, while Lexus i think go for a V6 arrangement.

The nicest sounding engine IMO is the Flat box engine, such as those found in the Subrau which means the cylinders are layed flat rather than upright as with most cars.

8V refers to the number of values the car has for all cylinders. So if the car is a four cylinder are then it has 2 values per cylinder, 1 is the inlet value and the other is the outlet value.


IMHO i think people should have to take a mechanics course before learning how to drive a car.

mike65

You needed to tell us that?

Mike.

ds20prefecture

kluivert wrote:

IMHO i think people should have to take a mechanics course before learning how to drive a car.

Dude - I couldn't agree more. What's a value?

@RobAMerc - I hear what you're saying, but it has got to the stage where anything that isn't german or japanese loses value at an alarming rate. This just makes the German/Japanese ownership proposition a self-fulfilling prophecy. If the people that chose these cars were to chose among the more interesting alternatives, the alternatives would have a stronger resale value.

Cause and effect.

junkyard

The main reason people buy Japanese or German cars is that in general they don't brake down or fall apart.(With the exception of the 1.3 million Mercs recalled last year and the VW/Audi duds out there);)
I don't think we will ever see people buying Citroen's and Peugeot's here unless we see a DIY culture starting here in a big way as it would be the only way to keep them going.

PauloMN

ds20prefecture wrote:

What's a value?

Must be the yolks in the clyinders he's talking about....

A V8 refers to the number a clyinders the has ie 8, the V relates the arrangement of these cylinders in a V shape ie four and four "V"

PauloMN

bazz26 wrote:

Some of the 05 cars I was looking at were in terrible condition, these had alot of scratches, scuffs on the bumpers, alloy wheels and doors and some of the interiors were just shabby. They had a lack of care look all over them. Even though my own car has covered almost 80k miles, while not getting ridiculously overprotective about my car, I do try to look after it, get it serviced on time, careful how/where I park it and wash/polish it regularly. It is in better condition than some of the 2005 cars I was looking at today.

I have found the same when looking at "newer" cars. It's also got me thinking why should I give the spotless car I've looked after for years to some garage for peanuts while buying a scruffier - albeit newer - car for lots of cash????

I suspect my now 5 year old will be gracing my driveway with its presence for some time to come...

ds20prefecture

junkyard wrote:

The main reason people buy Japanese or German cars is that in general they don't brake down or fall apart.(With the exception of the 1.3 million Mercs recalled last year and the VW/Audi duds out there);)
I don't think we will ever see people buying Citroen's and Peugeot's here unless we see a DIY culture starting here in a big way as it would be the only way to keep them going.

In general, cars don't break down or fall apart. Particularly Peugeots and Citroëns. Take a visit to Africa, and count how many Land Cruisers are broken down compared to, say, Peugeot 404s. My Citroën has neither broken down, nor fallen apart. Has yours?

Keep charging with the herd, Junkyard

RobAMerc

junkyard wrote:

The main reason people buy Japanese or German cars is that in general they don't brake down or fall apart.(With the exception of the 1.3 million Mercs recalled last year and the VW/Audi duds out there);)
I don't think we will ever see people buying Citroen's and Peugeot's here unless we see a DIY culture starting here in a big way as it would be the only way to keep them going.

Good to see we don't make sweeping generalizations here !

I'd rather have a 10year old car that put a smile on my face everytime I look out the window or drive it and caused me the odd bit of grief than the brand new "we forgot to put the character into it" recycled biscuit tin that some companies sh*t out.
Soul-less junk that robs people of the experience of owning a car as and being so boring people forget what it is they have.

Maybe thats it, the reason people buy so many drudge buckets here is not because theres no appreciation for cars, but because people have been robbed of the joy of having a good car !!(and perhaps a quality road network) and this has happened because they have been convinced a non event is a good thing.

It's safe to come out now my rant is over.:)

RobAMerc

ds20prefecture wrote:

In general, cars don't break down or fall apart. Particularly Peugeots and Citroëns. Take a visit to Africa, and count how many Land Cruisers are broken down compared to, say, Peugeot 404s. My Citroën has neither broken down, nor fallen apart.

Keep charging with the herd, Junkyard

Hey Ds, funny I was gonna put in my last post : Junkyard your gonna get it when Ds20 reads that
You were letting him have it while I edited it out lol !!
Your right though, basically they are more than 4 cylinders a steeing wheela and 4 tyres which means many folk are way outa their dept with them.

junkyard

I'm all out of Citroens....at last. I'm not sure about Toyota Landcrusiers breaking down, as far as I know they're the most dependable vehicle in Australia and I know which I would prefer to travel across Australia in and no, it wouldn't be a Citroen. And yes Alfa's for one do fall apart, its common knowledge, but I think we'll beg to differ on a few opinions. Oh and Moooo by the way.:)

unkel

ds20prefecture wrote:

In my experience Irish people (and it's a big generalisation) do not so much like cars as what their car says about them. Otherwise more people would buy ... a Citroën C6 instead of a S320

Nouveau riche, peut-être, but the reason they ain't buying a new C6 is because they're not insane

ds20prefecture wrote:

there'll be no one but an insane few to buy them new

curiosity

RobAMerc wrote:

Hey Ds, funny I was gonna put in my last post : Junkyard your gonna get it when Ds20 reads that
You were letting him have it while I edited it out lol !!
Your right though, basically they are more than 4 cylinders a steeing wheela and 4 tyres which means many folk are way outa their dept with them.

Oh dear, the butchering of the English language.

Carb

I like cars, it just sometimes hard to give a sh*t when you go to get it washed and by time you get home, it 's back the to the exact same way as before, because you've had to drive through an inch of muck for a couple of miles stuck behind a lorry. Or if you're on the way home from getting the car serviced and after about 10 potholes, you're wheel allignment is back the way it was. Caring for a car in Ireland is an endless battle because of the state of the roads.

junkyard

I was beginning to think I was the only one concerned about the condition of the roads in this country so much so that I bought a jeep as my regular car. We have paid millions here over the years for roads but as far as I can see this money hasn't been spent on roads in the south of Ireland anyway. I was in Dublin recently and I thought the roads were great. It really annoys me to have to put up with this crap treatment and then to have to pay for toll roads on top of it.:mad:

Kersh

I agree with whats been said here.
As in, the car you drive reflects neither your interest in cars, nor your wage.
I know some people with M5s, gallardos, 360s, and they just use them as posemobiles.
And I know some with ferraris/porsches etc, who dont have huge wages , but have the cars.
I think the second type is called an enthusiast , the first is a ... emm, well you know.:)

ds20prefecture

unkel wrote:

Nouveau riche, peut-être, but the reason they ain't buying a new C6 is because they're not insane

Touché. Way to quote out of context

My point still stands. If people cared more about cars than image, the C6 would have rock solid residuals.

Alfasudcrazy

I agree with Robamerc that in general Irish people don't find cars interesting. This can be seen from the number of new corrollas and Anensis on the roads.

I also think that some people are almost afriad to get any car that stands out for fear of being branded a show off. A variation of this thyeme may be a kind of macho disregard for their cars by leaving them dirty. I have often heard people say they don't like being seen washing their cars - why? Again its a strange fear of being regarded as too materialistic - a sub conscious catholic religion thing I suspect.

It just hits you immediately how different Nothern Ireland people are with their attitudes to cars - up there it seems to me there is a very strong interest and pride taken in cars. I once drove my Fiat 128 3p up there and these cars were rare in 1987 and was amazed by the attention it got whereas down here it was never looked at.

My old man is the typical Irish car owner. I once came home to find him using the 1.4 Astra (a perfect car I had searched very hard to find him) trying to pull up a wooden railway sleeper from the ground with a rope tied to the hitch. I was appalled especially since he had the choice of two tractors but was too lazy to get them out of the garage.

I had to buy a van for everyday hacking as I always found my main car would be ruined in no time with door dings.:rolleyes:

bazz26

Alfasudcrazy wrote:

I agree with Robamerc that in general Irish people don't find cars interesting. This can be seen from the number of new corrollas and Anensis on the roads.

Here's a strange thought - maybe there are people who like driving their Corolla, Focus, Golf, etc just as much as so called "interesting" cars.

Not everyone likes Alfas or BMWs, etc. This doesn't mean however they have no interest in cars, it just means their interest is different from someone else's perseption of "intesting" cars.

There are plenty of Alfas and BMWs out there are just as badly treated as any other make. Just as there are plenty Toyotas or VWs out there that have plenty of tlc. I wouldn't assume that because of what type of car you drive automatically determins what type of owner you are.

The guy who goes out every Sunday afternoon and spends a couple of hours cleaning and polishing his 10 year old Micra/Starlet maybe more interested in cars than the guy who owns his €100k BMW or Merc across the road.

I love cars probably just as much as anyone else on this forum, so just because I drive a different car to someone else's idea of an interesting car does not change the fact that I still enjoy it.

Alfasudcrazy

bazz26 wrote:

I love cars probably just as much as anyone else on this forum, so just because I drive a different car to someone else's idea of an interesting car does not change the fact that I still enjoy it.

Do you know what it is - Id like to know? - just joking.:p

An interesting case in car ownership was ex broadcaster Gay Byrne. He loved cars and had the money to buy them if he wished yet he drove around in a pretty medium spec Vectra.
In the final late late show Joe Duffy even asked him about this and as far as I recall he said he just liked the simple life etc - bull**** - he had the same 'don't want to be seen as a show off' phobia as many Irish people.;)

I see Irish people's lack of car knowledge in my job every day where I am trying to get the make of car some suspicious caller was using. It seems a lot of the younger Gardai also can only describe a car by its registration plate and are immediately lost if they are asked to name the brand or model type.:rolleyes:

RobAMerc

Alfasudcrazy wrote:

It just hits you immediately how different Nothern Ireland people are with their attitudes to cars - up there it seems to me there is a very strong interest and pride taken in cars. I once drove my Fiat 128 3p up there and these cars were rare in 1987 and was amazed by the attention it got whereas down here it was never looked at.

To be honest this is exactly one of the driving ( excuse the pun ) factors behind me starting this thread.
I recently collected my 'new' classic car in the uk and drove it 150 odd miles to the ferry port. In that time I was asked, and complimented about the car at least 3 times, with most of the people having a genuine interest in it, appreciation for it and shocked me with the level of knowledge they had.

I have had two experiences displaying the complete opposite attitude here and in the roughly 5 months I have the car here I have had not one person ask me about it or anyone show any interest in it at all. ( And I don't have it because I want attention: before ye start)

Two things that have happened to highlight this are:
1: Turned up to meet a few buddies, one looked at the car and asked me how much I gave for it almost scoffing because it's old and the other to answer for me “sure thats worth nothing, it's old”

2: My colleague sent me outside to show me a car just like mine outside, it turned out to be a 1988 R107 300 SL (a small convertible). Mine is a 1974 w114 280ce. ( neither small or convertible)

But in general I am just shocked at the lack of interest, understanding and respect Irish people have for any cars compared to Europeans.

Alfasudcrazy wrote:

I also think that some people are almost afriad to get any car that stands out for fear of being branded a show off.

Funny that: My brother in law asked me to suggest some modern classics he might like after having being badgered by some 'experts' into buying an Astra, which he hates. I suggested perhaps a Porsche 968, but his girlfriend errupted into laughter and told him he'd look like a 'proper knob' driving a Porsche. Why ??? I presume she meant exactly what you stated Alfasudcrazy its some how a show off's car.
Ther must be an awful lot of knobs out there and I would really like to be one:)