For the benefit of Cardshark ~ and so I can improve my knowledge

Iago

This is from a thread I posted in the abyss that is bad beat/moan venting and mentions one of a variety of hands in which I lost a lot of money last night.

I won the vast majority of it back, but the only comment I've seen so far is from Cardshark who says that I played this really badly. I don't dispute this for a second, but I would like to gain understanding of why, and what people would do differently. Thoughts?

6 Max .50/$1 Table

Hero BB ($100)
UTG ($165)
BUtton ($86)

Dealt to Hero 6h4h
UTG limps
Button Limps
SB folds

Pot =$3.50

Flop: 3s 5d 7c

Hero Checks
UTG bets $6
Button raises to $25
Hero calls $25
UTG calls $19

Pot = $78.50

Turn: As

Hero bets $10
UTG raises to $74
Button calls $60 and is all-in
Hero calls $64 and is all-in

Main Pot: $258.50

Side Pot: $28 Hero and UTG

Hero has 6h 4h
UTG has Ad Ac
Button has Ah 7h

River: 5c

UTG wins $258.50 with Full House Aces over fives
UTG wins sidepot $28 with Full House Aces ove fives

Hero loses with a straight 34567
Button loses with two pair Aces and sevens

Hand is over


edit: Just to give my thinking on the hand. I was never raising with 6h4h preflop. When the flop came down so perfectly I wanted to get money from the hand. I figured if I bet here then nobody bites. When UTG bet I was planning to raise but with the raise from the button I re-evaluated. UTG could conceiveably be holding anything, so was the raise from the button a ballsy steal attempt or a real hand? Either way there are very few cards that will put me in trouble on the turn so I was happy to flat call and hope that UTG comes along.

On the turn I led out hoping to get raised behind me, with a bit of luck one of the players might have Ax and another an overpair or maybe a set and they'll push as a result. As it turns out I was almost right, and I was ahead when all the money went in. I think I was just unlucky on the river, but is there a more optimum way to play this hand? Is it better to take a small pot in this situation? How scared would you be on that flop? or turn for that matter...

RotalicaV

Dunno why people bother playing the real money games, you've the best chance on winning money in the 9 player buy in tables, or heads up for 25/50 dollars.

Thats where i've made my money.

willis

you didnt play it badly as you got all the money in ahead.ul

5starpool

I don't see what more you could have done that would have affected the outcome. Once UTG limped with aces to let you see that flop you weren't going away. Flop you slow played. Overbetting here would have possibly won the pot, but AA might well have stayed around too, but I think most people here would tend to slow play at least til the turn.

After the turn, I would have gone all in, trying not to give correct odds to sets/two pair/higher straight draws, but it is doubtful if utg would have gone away.

I look forward to seeing other thoughts on how this could have been played though.

5starpool

RotalicaV wrote:

Dunno why people bother playing the real money games, you've the best chance on winning money in the 9 player buy in tables, or heads up for 25/50 dollars.

Thats where i've made my money.

Helpful post I am sure all will agree.

Samba

You played the hand perfectly, milked the pot, suckered em in and he sucked out on you.

One argument would be to raise the flop, you might lose AA here if he is anyway half decent. however......YOU WANT AA HERE EVERY TIME!!!

Runner runner boat... harsh...

ianmc38

Well for cardshark to say you played it wrong is ridiculous. Your call on the raise on the flop was perfect as it kept everyone interested. Your bet on the turn is a little small for my liking. I prefer about 1/2-2/3 of the pot here, though the weak looking bet got lots of action which is what you wanted.

Played it perfectly and got a horrible suckout. Simple as that.

Gholimoli

play looks fine .i would have deffo recommonded a lead on the turn which you did.you got unlucky this time thats all.

Samba

It wasn't cardshark who had the AA was it?

cardshark202

Lead on the flop, bet more on the turn. You've flopped the nuts in a multiway pot, so you should lead out. You could have got it all in on the flop(if you were re-raised) when you were a bigger favouriite. having said that, both your opponents played their hands pretty badly too and you were unlucky.

EDIT: You bet 10 into a pot of 78. You might as well have checked.

cardshark202

Samba wrote:

It wasn't cardshark who had the AA was it?

lol no

Gholimoli

Samba wrote:

You played the hand perfectly, milked the pot, suckered em in and he sucked out on you.

One argument would be to raise the flop, you might lose AA here if he is anyway half decent. however......YOU WANT AA HERE EVERY TIME!!!

Runner runner boat... harsh...

there is no argument.
you want all the AAs KKs and other crap here.
as you said your self

Iago

cardshark202 wrote:

Lead on the flop, bet more on the turn. You've flopped the nuts in a multiway pot, so you should lead out.

Well as I mentioned above my problem with betting the flop is that I'm likely to be miles ahead here, how many hands on that flop will call me? Only a set is going to stay around, whereas if I check I might get someone bluffing at the pot or picking up enough of a hand to see a turn. I was trying to maximise the money I made out of the hand, but perhaps leading out would have had the same result. I normally lead out if I'm strong on a board that could concievably have given someone a very strong 2nd strongest hand, but I didn't think this flop had that potential.

EDIT: You bet 10 into a pot of 78. You might as well have checked.

This is very true, to be honest I was trying to underbet. I wanted to be raised and I figured the best way to do that was to make a bet that looks like I can't play the game. If I check it still smells a little of a trap, particularily after calling a 25*raise on the flop.

If however I bet an amount that makes no sense then maybe I'm just out of my league and I'm trying to be clever reprsenting a hand that I don't have...of course maybe I analyse too much as well, they probably weren't paying attention to me

cardshark202

Iago wrote:

Well as I mentioned above my problem with betting the flop is that I'm likely to be miles ahead here, how many hands on that flop will call me? Only a set is going to stay around, whereas if I check I might get someone bluffing at the pot or picking up enough of a hand to see a turn. I was trying to maximise the money I made out of the hand, but perhaps leading out would have had the same result. I normally lead out if I'm strong on a board that could concievably have given someone a very strong 2nd strongest hand, but I didn't think this flop had that potential.

You should lead or at least check-raise. With that much action you have to figure both players have a decent chunk of the flop (In this case neither did though!). I prefer to lead, hope to get raised and probably then re-raise and try to get as much money in the pot while I'm miles ahead. If someone has a set here you'll still get action, as you will from two pair or maybe even an overpair.

Iago wrote:

This is very true, to be honest I was trying to underbet. I wanted to be raised and I figured the best way to do that was to make a bet that looks like I can't play the game. If I check it still smells a little of a trap, particularily after calling a 25*raise on the flop.

If however I bet an amount that makes no sense then maybe I'm just out of my league and I'm trying to be clever reprsenting a hand that I don't have...of course maybe I analyse too much as well, they probably weren't paying attention to me

I think you're reading too much into it with that bet. I'd at least bet half the pot here and hope to get re-raised.

RoundTower

Iago wrote:

Well as I mentioned above my problem with betting the flop is that I'm likely to be miles ahead here, how many hands on that flop will call me? Only a set is going to stay around

Iago wrote:

with a bit of luck one of the players might have Ax and another an overpair or maybe a set and they'll push as a result.

I like the way you can only be called on the flop with a set, but on the turn they'll put it all in with one pair, or an overpair to the board (I think you could rule this out safely enough).

I don't think you played it terribly but I like to bet this flop. There is no indication that anyone else will bet for you, and the pot is very small that it will be hard to get someone all in with just two more rounds of betting. You want to stack someone here, not just pick up an extra $5 from someone who takes a shot at it with middle pair or overcards.

Pokerguru

There is $34 in the pot after the button raises on the flop. That is 34% of your $100 stack. I would be taking the pot down there and then with an all in re-raise. If he's dumb enough to slow play AA from the button, and dumb enough to call your re-raise on flop, and then outdraw you with runner runner, you will get his stack eventually anyway.

fuzzbox

Personally I often lead the flop, and either call a raise and check/raise the turn-allin.
I also might just push when the action gets back to me if I have checked.

I think your cold call of a bet and a raise indicates monster, and then you lead far too weak at the turn.

However, saying all that, you didnt play it badly at all (other than the turn lead I think).

On a side note, I dont like how you played your QQ (one of your other bad beats). I think you could have saved some money there.

Iago

fuzzbox wrote:

On a side note, I dont like how you played your QQ (one of your other bad beats). I think you could have saved some money there.

Well that wasn't so much a bad beat as bad play on my part, I started behind, finished behind so that was more of a moan at myself for getting into that situation. Mind you 1st hand on a table and with the cards that were played out the only way I think I could have saved money was by flat calling his flop bet and then folding to a significant bet on the turn. I honestly thought he was holding AJ or maybe TT. But yes, bad play on my part :mad: