Long runs slow you down

Patto

This is a variation on Clubber Lang's post on "weights slow you down".

Another more recent dressing room mantra "train slow be slow" i.e. long runs and endless laps make you slow.

Any opinions?

dangerman

nope. no opinion.

but it recalls this scientific american article, discussing the different muscle fibers between long distance runners and sprinters.

http://www.athleticquickness.com/page.asp?page_id=56

p.pete

variety is good.

t-ha

That's a good link dangerman.

My opinion - long runs and endless laps aren't going to make you fast.

Clubber Lang

for a football perspective i know most teams have moved away from long distance runing in pre season which was the norm for years. I know some players from one top league of ireland team and they've been back training a few weeks they started of with stamia running the longest distance which was a mile! and are already back working on there short distance speed. From a GAA point of view the nearest thing to long distance running is interval work where a slow jog is followed by a sprint and back to a slow jog and so on.
As mentioned by Transform in the weights slow you down thread SAQ is now a big part of training in both league of ireland Soccer and inter countyGAA. But i find at club level in GAA its really only taking off but with Jim kilty running more and more SAQ courses around the country its only a matter of time before its considered the norm for all club teams too.

Gaillimhtaibhse

Patto wrote:

Another more recent dressing room mantra "train slow be slow"

Any opinions?

My TKD master instructor believes "Train fast, be fast." He doesn't endorse running...believes that it works against flexibility for kicking.

t-ha

If you have an interest in actually being able to prevent yourself from being beaten up, then surely running would be top of the list of things you should be able to do?

Not working the limbs through their full range of motion (as in running & cycling etc.) will decrease your flexibility if that's all you do - but that's what stretching is for.

Transform

Slow runs at the lower end of HR zones eg 30yr old fit guy running at 140-150bpm for 40mins serves to clear lactic acid that would have been produced from interval/sprint sessions.

They serve their purpose but again its very specific to the individual e.g. one player who is already overtrained will only get worse from high intensity sprints

Pherekydes

Transform wrote:

Slow runs at the lower end of HR zones eg 30yr old fit guy running at 140-150bpm for 40mins serves to clear lactic acid that would have been produced from interval/sprint sessions.

They serve their purpose but again its very specific to the individual e.g. one player who is already overtrained will only get worse from high intensity sprints

Would you be doing 40 minute runs so soon after a interval session?

thirtyfoot

I found an extensive tempo session is a much more efficient way of recovering from a high intensive speed session. Continous or intensive tempo runs are also a more efficient at increasing aerobic capacity. Couple of years back Jim Kilty always got his athletes doing tempo runs early season, reckoning they were so much more beneficial than a 25-40 minute run. Having said that, Clyde Hart, coach to Michael Johnson, used to included 5km runs in early season. Each to their own, but I found tempos the most beneficial. An example of a tempo run would be 10x200 at 60% with 45-60secs recovery.

Patto

Transform wrote:

Slow runs at the lower end of HR zones eg 30yr old fit guy running at 140-150bpm for 40mins serves to clear lactic acid that would have been produced from interval/sprint sessions.

They serve their purpose but again its very specific to the individual e.g. one player who is already overtrained will only get worse from high intensity sprints

Transform, I aggree with your second point but I have to say I'm with Tingle on your first point. Just from personal experience, and I'm no expert if I may add, I find tempo running much more effective and a hell of a lot less boreing for building an aerobic base and blowing out lactic acid. By tempo running I mean 15X100M at 65% I use the HR to judge recovery i.e. when my HR goes down to 120 (usually about 60-80 seconds) I go again. This averages out with a HR of about 150 over the session. The same as the 150bpm 40 min run but more effective imo.

Just wishing to tease this one out as I say I'm no expert. See the link below:
http://www.serpentine.org.uk/advice/coach/fh55.php
"Gerschler outraged the running fraternity by announcing: ‘Steady running is wasteful of effort and inefficient.’"

t-ha

Patto wrote:

Transform, I aggree with your second point but I have to say I'm with Tingle on your first point. Just from personal experience, and I'm no expert if I may add, I find tempo running much more effective and a hell of a lot less boreing for building an aerobic base and blowing out lactic acid. By tempo running I mean 15X100M at 65% I use the HR to judge recovery i.e. when my HR goes down to 120 (usually about 60-80 seconds) I go again. This averages out with a HR of about 150 over the session. The same as the 150bpm 40 min run but more effective imo.

Just wishing to tease this one out as I say I'm no expert. See the link below:
http://www.serpentine.org.uk/advice/coach/fh55.php
"Gerschler outraged the running fraternity by announcing: ‘Steady running is wasteful of effort and inefficient.’"

Exercise at any intensity has it's benfits and areas where it should be used. Someone who already does alot of training at high intensities could stand to gain alot from low intensity work. It can also, as Transform mentioned, not only not be damaging to recovery times but actively improve them.

It still won't make you quick though.

Cake Fiend

I remember reading somewhere about studies that showed that a body more used to aerobic excercise will have decreased efficiency in anaerobic exercise, and vice versa. I'll try to dig it out.

To be honest, most sports are going to need a balance of both types of fitness. A football game goes on for 45 minutes a half for example, but you still need to be able to give a burst of speed on a regular basis. A fight on the street might last only seconds and be decided by who can hit first or fastest, but a sparring match will last several minutes, and a tournament several hours. I'd say most people don't do narrowly aerobic- or anaerobic-specific sports (marathon running, sprinting, etc).