Hi-Fi Separates

Amoebo

Hi,
I am looking to get myself a new music system. I am quite partial to sparates but the ones i have are very old at this stage. Basically i'm just looking for a cd player and an amplifier. I have a relatively small budget of around €500. Does anyone know where i can get this kinda stuff in Dublin? Or am i better to shop online? Also can anyone recommend any models? I am doing my best to read up on the technialities so i don't get ripped off, however i am still very new to the area. Any help would be much appreciated.;)

Amoebo

Anyone?:(

Evil Sausage

If you HAVE to buy in Dublin, Harvey Normans in Airside have a very good selection of separates.

I bought myself a Marantz PM7200 AMP from richersounds a year ago. I got some Monitor Audio Bronze 2's to go with it. Absolutely cracking setup and have had no problems. Went with a Marantz CD5001 CD Player there just before Christmas.

Bought them all through RicherSounds online. Cant say good enough things about them. They were very helpfull and even helped me pick out the speakers to match the amp.

pH

Bought them all through RicherSounds online. Cant say good enough things about them. They were very helpfull and even helped me pick out the speakers to match the amp

And you can now Skype them!

Amoebo

Super...nice 1 lads.

commited

Dont buy anything without demo'ing a whole load of stuff first. A friend of mine tested the PM7200 and didnt rate it at all compared with stuff in it's class.
I spent about 10hours demoing stuff before I bought all my gear.

Amoebo

hmmmmm....i'll have to have a rethink so. I'd more or less resigned myself to going with the PM7200 beause of people recommending it and the What hi-fi review. I've really only got Harvey Normans as an option in terms of demoing stuff.....so other than that i'm going by recommendations and reviews. Do you think it is better to spend more on the amp or the cd player?
Again, any help would be very much appreciated.;)

commited

Dont bother reading the what hifi reviews - they're all BS in my opinion

Are you willing to buy second hand stuff?
What's wrong with the setup you have? My fathers amps are 25years old, nothing under €5-10k could touch them for quality.

There is no set formula for how much to spend on cd/amp. That's why demo'ing is important - you might think a €200cd/€300amp sounds better than a €300cd/€200 amp and vice versa. Why arent you buying a pair of speakers also?

Can you go up north - I dont like the shop, but Richersounds have easonably priced kit.
You could try ringing cloney audio to see if they have any old CD Players/amps in stock.
Have a look at the cloney audio forum also - lots of excellent second hand stuff there.

Amoebo

don't really want to get 2nd hand stuff... now that i have the cash to spend i'd prefer to get new ones. the stuff i had was very cheap when i bought them around 10 years ago and are not working properly anyway.
i know what you mean about demoing being important. i'll see can i get up to riicher sounds in the north..
ye i'm looking at speakers too...more expensive than i thought they would be to be honest...i'd like a pair of floorstanders but the price is putting me off. still i dont want to spend lots on a good amp and cd player and then have a ****ty pair o speakers.. no point really.
the more i consider this the more undecided i get! ah well.. nice 1 anyway...keep the help coming if ya can.

Amoebo

after giving it some consideration, i think i can stretch to a budget of €750/800.....including speakers. There must be something decent for that money! i still like the sound of that marantz combo, though not fully convinced.

commited

If you went with second hand amps (the safest second hand choice and the most fruitful in my opinion), you'll end up with 10x the sound quality. I would only buy used stuff now, as its the only way for me to achieve the sound quality I want for my budget.

Why do you want floorstanders? How big is your room - if it's more than 12 sq ft, you'll get away with them.

What is your old stuff? What sort of music do you listen to?

€800 is a fair budget - not amazing, but you should get a nice setup for that.
Richersounds is worth a sniff, but I personally dont like their range!
Why not head into cloney audio in Dublin and see what they have on offer - second hand and new.

From Cloneys, worth a demo:

CD Player:
Tivoli Model CD €299.00
Yamaha CDX-396 €209.00

Amplifier:
Yamaha AX-396 €325.00
Rotel RA-01 €395.00

Speakers:
System audio SA 505 €299.00
B&W DM303 €289.00
B&W DM600 S3 €319.00

Re the budget - you could upgrade slowly maybe?

Amoebo

ye i suppose... second hand would give me more flexibility. i prefer floorspeakers but my room is not actually very big so im gonna go with shelfspeakers. to be honest i dont know what make my old equipment is. its not with me at the moment so i cant check. I actually just had a ghettto blaster hooked up to a small amp. Its definitely time for new stuff anyway. I listen to mostly jazz and blues....i like a bit of classical too. i go through phases of listening to drum n bass, and the odd band that catches my attention. so i suppose my taste is quite diverse.
Ye im gonna go check out cloney audio. i live near enough to it. i hadnt considered it originally bacause i was told there stuff was porofessional equipment etc and so very expensive. Still if they have second hand stuff ill defo check it out.
cheers for your help.

commited

Check out Cloney - listen to more expensive brands, like Arcam - if you find you like the sound, should be able to find similar used stuff for much less!

DublinWriter

Mmmmm Marantz. I still have my trusty CD-52 mk II from circa 1993 and it still sounds lovely (took a week to 'break-in', can't understand why as it's all supposed to be digitial?).

Don't touch Hardly Normal. If you're stumping up that kind of cash I'd go somewhere with a proper listening facilities, like Richer Sounds.

Check out Cloney Audio - I know their stuff is pretty high-end, but they're a friendly bunch and all hi-fi nuts, and I'm sure they can point you in some interesting directions.

Getting the amp/speaker match can be tricky. Products that get rave reviews on their own may not sound great when put together.

TempestSabre

Theres seems to be a lot of 2nd hand stuff on ebay UK. But its too much of a gamble as you can't hear it.

commited

There is second hand stuff in Ireland too, but the range in the UK is amazing.

You're right about the gamble part, but most hifi stuff is very well cared for, that's why I only buy from hifi forums etc

TempestSabre

Well anything online is gamble. I kinda meant its a gamble if you'l like the sound. Personally I've been looking for a cheap but reasonable amp and speakers and not finding much. I put in a wanted request for this before and all hardly any replies back. The replies I got back where either too difficult to get too or looking for almost new prices for stuff.

commited

TempestSabre wrote:

Well anything online is gamble. I kinda meant its a gamble if you'l like the sound. Personally I've been looking for a cheap but reasonable amp and speakers and not finding much. I put in a wanted request for this before and all hardly any replies back. The replies I got back where either too difficult to get too or looking for almost new prices for stuff.

Generally companies have an "in-house" sound. Ie - if you go and demo some brand new arcam stuff, an older arcam setup will have a similar type of sound - this is especially true for amps in my experience.

I replied to your thread before and you never followed it up

A personal favourite of mine is the Arcam Delta 290. It can be had from ebay for less than £125 incl delivery to Ireland, which is basically €200. It is internally pretty much identical to an Arcam Alpha 9 amp. If you like the Arcam sound, then you'll love this amp.

Speakers are probably the most difficult choice - I like B&W and System audio, although I'm using a set of Missions at the moment which are ok. Go and demo some stuff - it'll give you an idea of what you like.

TempestSabre

I was actually referring to a different thread. For some reason I lost the subscription for that thread. But thanks for getting back I'll respond on that now.

Amoebo

right i've been looking around on ebay and i came across a couple Arcam models, the Arcam A75 and The Arcam Diva A65...which seems to be in around what im expecting to spend on an amp at around €200/300.
Those Ssystem sudio speakers you mentioned cloney do seem to be quite neat anyway.. though ive yet to hear them. As regards speakers do you think it is better to buy a new set or do they last well?

Amoebo

Also those yamaha models you mentioned that cloney do... are they fairly decent? they definitely look the part anyway. By looking at the pictures though they dont seem to have tone control (though i may be wrong)...i love to be able to mess about with the bass especially...

commited

Amoebo - go in and demo some stuff in cloney - it'll give you a better idea.
The Arcam Delta 290 would wipe the floor with those Arcam amps you mentioned though (was €1000 new or something)

I've never really liked the Yamaha stuff myself. Dont buy for looks - if you consider looks to be important, dont buy separates. You should never ever want to mess with the tone controls - you are spending nearly a grand to buy a good system to reproduce the music as it should be heard, dont distort the sound with that stuff. Leave that to 12year olds and their sony flashy light systems!

Re speakers - neither my father nor myself have ever owned a new set of speakers (excluding a Mini system when i was 10 and a pair of cheap aristons I bought). I'm currently using 16year old speakers, my fathers using 10 year old speakers and we have 25year old speakers in another room. The 25year old ones did sound a little "dead" compared to my old 602s but still excellent! Basically - buy a pair of speakers that you like - dont care about the age! Just make sure that they've been taken care of.

Re CD Players - Try to buy one from the last 5years, that's when the great leaps in quality versus money stopped happening in my opinion.

Amoebo

ok. i really appreciate your help. you certainly opened my eyes to a few things and made me think a lot harder about it. i'll definitely head to cloney sometime this week, and even if they have nothing that i like in my price range, at least i'll have a better idea of what i want exactly.
Later.;)

commited

No problem - let us know how you get on - listen to a few different brands and see what kind of sound you like.
Dont forget to bring CDs that you know well and like with you!

Amoebo

will do...thanks again.

Hifi

I Currently have a Harmon Kardon Home Entertainment system consisting of AVR130 Amplifier, DV22 DVD Player, 5 Speakers,2 Pairs of floorstands & either a Harmon Kardon Subwoofer or the option of a B&W AS1 Subwoofer.This super system also comes with a 3 tier Glass Unit.In addition to this I also have a personalized MX850 remote control which eliminates having all the remotes.This system will not be long going but for €1500 its a steal at less than half price

Amoebo

Thanks for the post, but i'm not looking for any home entertainment stuff...purely hi-fi separates for music is what i'm looking for.
Incidentally...i was on Cloney audio the other day...they had no second-hand stuff in my price range at the moment, although they are getting something in tomorrow and they are going to ring me...so fingers crossed its something suitable for me. they had a pair of B&W 602's which are slightly damaged (but not affecting the sound) and i must say im loving them! may have to go for them.
keep the posts coming boys..always open to opinions and advice.

Amoebo

Cloney have an arcam alpha 9 amp going for €279, im booked in on saturday to demo it and a couple of other things.....anyone got any opinions on this model?

Amoebo

anyone got anything to say on the Rotel CD-02?

Amoebo

Just to let you know how i got on.

Went down to Cloney to see what they had on offer.
I had a listen to the B&W CM1's and i loved them i have to say...the fact that the sound was great and also that they were so neat. After seeing these and a couple of purposely quiet weekends later i decided my budget was going to increase. I listen to them again another day and decided that there was definitely somthing missing however. The B&W 602's were excellent but they also had something missing for me. I eventually decided on the System Audio 1530's and i absolutely love them to bits!
As regards the amp....they only had a couple of used amps, so i started off with an Arcam Alpha 9....i liked it i have to say, and i listened to it with both the Arcam CD73 and the Rotel CD-02 (the only players there within my budget)..... i couldnt really decide until i hooked them up to the Musical Fidelity XA-1. WOW. Instantly it all just seemed to come together....hairs stood up on the back of my neck! It just gave so much more life to the music than i found with th Alpha 9. I decided on the Rotel too.
So all in all:

System Audio 1530
Musical Fidelity XA-1
Rotel CD-02
Nordost Dreamcast cable
Some other fancy used cable


Extrememly happy.:D

commited

Wow - your budget went up a lot

sounds like you got a great system for your money. I've heard the Rotel can be a little bright though.

A good investment made though

Amoebo

ye it ws a tough choice between the arcam and the rotel.....i swapped them over so many times to try to help me decide...i listen to a lot of jazz these days and being a piano player myself, jazz piano is what i listen to most......i found the piano a lot clearer on the rotel for all the cd's i brought with me. ye it maybe a little too bright and sharp on some instruments such as the saxophone, but i don't mind that too much...although things like that can play on you and grow to bother you more and more is suppose, but overall i'm fairly happy with it. the hi-definition cd capability could be a nice extra too....though i havent any cd's at the moment with that capability.
ye i got a bit o' cash knocked off cos 1 o' the lads is a friend of a friend so it worked out nicely.
anyway appreciate all your inputs and advice.
take it easy.
ken.;)

commited

Sounds good Ken

I like the speakers - I'm thinking of a pair for myself when I pay off the car loan!

Mark

Amoebo

hehe...damn loans spoil everything!
ye i'd recommend them to anyone willing to spend a bit on speakers. Personally i never in my life thought i would spend €795 on a pair of speakers but now that i did i'm thinking its the best purchase i ever made! after listening to the B&W CM1's and the 602's (both were really good in their own way imo), the SA's seemed to combine the best bits of both.....and are also very nice on the eye. went for the cherry finish.....not big fan of black speakers (especially that size), and the maple is a bit too pale for my liking.
anyway.
later man.:)

commited

I had 602s for 5 years. I was always happy with them and they are fantastic for their price, but side by side with a pair of 802s and they instantly sound crap!

I'm currently using a DVD player with a custom external DAC (amazing, best sounds i've ever heard) with a class T amp which is no party amp, but the quality is amazing, and a pair of Mission 763s. I'm looking for a better CD transport and a new set of speakers (too bright at the mo) and then I should be in audio nirvana

Amoebo

wow that sounds extrememly sophisticated to me....well i'm off the mark now in terms of buying my own stuff instead of sniffing around for hand-me-downs, so ive got it all ahead of me...:D . I think it will be a while before i improve on what i have though, as the balance seems just right for the moment and there is absolutely no point in upsetting that. maybe a look into better interconnects in a few months time would temporarily satisfy my appetite for achieving the elusive musical 'nirvana' as you put it. sounds like you have something savage there though...i can only imagine the quality and to be quite honest i'm so happy with what i have at the moment i wouldnt want to hear anything better.
i finish work at five and i can tell you im gonna race home as fast as i can to experience my music collection as i havent done before...cheers buddy;)