different play at 5/10??

clint_silver

ok, I posted recently about me playing 3/6 online and how I was doing just about ok. i posted some of the hands I played and the general feeling was that I shouldnt be on the 3/6 table. however, over the last 3 weeks, I started to do a little better then ok and managed to get my account up to about 4k. So Im thinking jeez Im not too bad at this, why dont I try a little foray into the 5/10 table and see how my game holds up. I got absolutely crucified, but the manner in which it happened is the thing thats getting me. Within 30 minutes I lost 2 full loads (1.5k) by going all in with the nuts postflop (top card trips both times) after the villian raised me with nothing. He rivered me both times (2 str8s).
My grounding is to always congratulate the winner no matter how bad the beat but other players asked why did he call and his reply was that you needed balls to play this game and the money involved meant nothing to him.
I changed table to another 5/10 and held my own for a while, made a little back so im happy with my game but my stack took a serious dent.
I know someone is going to take his money off of him but a lucky fish is a dangerous fish and should be avoided IMO.
Questions for here is 1) should anyone be sitting down at a table with this type of player? And 2) do you encounter this type of player more often at larger blinds tables because I dont see it too often at 3/6 where Ive been happily residing since.

ocallagh

If you were given odds of 10/1, would you stick your life savings on AcAd holding up against Kc3d?

fuzzbox

You should desire to sit down with players who raise you with nothing, when you have the nuts.

I suspect, however, that he did, indeed, have something (at least a strong draw).

5/10 tends to be more aggressive than 3/6 which is more aggressive than 2/4 and so on and so on. Thus, the swings are bigger (5/10 is nearly double the size of the 3/6 game). You need a solid bankroll in order to cope with the swings that you will invariably encounter at this level (and at any level really).

In order to play 5/10, the recommendation is that you have a 20k bankroll (20 times the buy-in).


I find that the hardest thing about moving up, is that the amount of money you are now playing for is much bigger each time (usually the stakes double), and it takes some time to adjust to this new amount.

RMcG

In a flash.

ntlbell

ocallagh wrote:

If you were given odds of 10/1, would you stick your life savings on AcAd holding up against Kc3d?

in a flash, the tenner would come in handy, running out of smokes...;)

clint_silver

If you were given odds of 10/1, would you stick your life savings on AcAd holding up against Kc3d?

No, and Ive folded with AA against allin bets preflop. Ive read enough bad beats and had a few of my own to know the odds. But Im not asking how to bet here.
The 2 hands went very similar, I had JJ, bet 4xBB, only villian called, flop came J85, i raised 200 to get rid of villian, he raised that by 200 so i had no choice at stage, of course he had 9 10 and got the Q on the river for the str8. The other hand was even worse when it went practicaly the exact same way, when (afair) i had QQ, flop came something like Q 10 7 villian only had J 8 suited and the 9 came on the river.
Id raised 200 each time after flop which should have indicated I had a decent hand, especially after the first time!!! So this isnt a rant on bad beats, its not a question on gambling and on what I can afford to lose, Im asking on the type of player one might experience on a 5/10 table and whether its worth stayin with one so indifferent with his money that "all bets are off" so to speak when it comes to playing your usual game. Should you then fold after he reraises? Would anyone?

Culchie

ocallagh wrote:

If you were given odds of 10/1, would you stick your life savings on AcAd holding up against Kc3d?

great question.

not me.

fuzzbox

clint_silver wrote:

No, and Ive folded with AA against allin bets preflop. Ive read enough bad beats and had a few of my own to know the odds. But Im not asking how to bet here.

You should NEVER fold AA preflop in a cash game. NEVER. If you have folded AA preflop then you are making a very big mistake.

The 2 hands went very similar, I had JJ, bet 4xBB, only villian called, flop came J85, i raised 200 to get rid of villian, he raised that by 200 so i had no choice at stage, of course he had 9 10 and got the Q on the river for the str8. The other hand was even worse when it went practicaly the exact same way, when (afair) i had QQ, flop came something like Q 10 7 villian only had J 8 suited and the 9 came on the river.
Id raised 200 each time after flop which should have indicated I had a decent hand, especially after the first time!!! So this isnt a rant on bad beats, its not a question on gambling and on what I can afford to lose, Im asking on the type of player one might experience on a 5/10 table and whether its worth stayin with one so indifferent with his money that "all bets are off" so to speak when it comes to playing your usual game. Should you then fold after he reraises? Would anyone?

In both of these pots, villain had quite a few outs ... he was semi-bluffing you with at least a straight draw (I suspect that he had a flush draw as well as a gutshot in hand 2). You would have to fold a lot of hands that you didnt have, and if you did have a set, or were stubborn with a pair, well then he might get lucky (which he did).

You got your money in with the best hand, but you got outdrawn. Thats poker.

ianmc38

ocallagh wrote:

If you were given odds of 10/1, would you stick your life savings on AcAd holding up against Kc3d?

Not a chance in hell. As much as I like a gamble, my life time savings are pretty significant and I'd have no interest in that bet, in spite of knowing that i was getting tremendous odds.

cardshark202

ocallagh wrote:

If you were given odds of 10/1, would you stick your life savings on AcAd holding up against Kc3d?

Yup.

ollyk1

ocallagh wrote:

If you were given odds of 10/1, would you stick your life savings on AcAd holding up against Kc3d?

Yes I would. A not insignificant sum (I like to think:o ). Where do I sign up?

Your life savings aren't as secure as you like to think boys and girls (sh1t happens) and an 85% chance of a tax-free double up seems like reasonable odds to me. And your giving 10/1 as well???? I'd do it for even money...

Would you take it if you had a 99.9% chance of a double up?? Whats the pain threshold for you? Personally anything where I have over an 80% chance with the payout being evens or better I'd lump on. If you are offering me 10/1 on my money I'd drop down to a 55-60% chance and gamble everything!!

P.S. The fact I have reasonably secure employment and an income stream may colour my thinking here but not that much I think as I reckon I could make a few quid anytime - cos I have skillz!

denachoman

ocallagh wrote:

If you were given odds of 10/1, would you stick your life savings on AcAd holding up against Kc3d?

Absolutely. And if I got outdrawn I'd borrow as much money as possible and stick that on the same bet again.

Culchie

denachoman wrote:

Absolutely. And if I got outdrawn I'd borrow as much money as possible and stick that on the same bet again.

Who'd lend you the money?

cardshark202

clint_silver wrote:

No, and Ive folded with AA against allin bets preflop. Ive read enough bad beats and had a few of my own to know the odds. But Im not asking how to bet here.

Don't take this the wrong way, but you really really really shouldn't be playing 5/10 or 3/6 or 2/4 or any poker for that matter if you fold AA preflop in a cash game.

denachoman

Culchie wrote:

Who'd lend you the money?

I'd sell 1% stakes in myself to Boardsies!!!

Rodge

cardshark202 wrote:

Don't take this the wrong way, but you really really really shouldn't be playing 5/10 or 3/6 or 2/4 or any poker for that matter if you fold AA preflop in a cash game.

Your blind adoration of AA is going to cost you a lot of money in the long run.

stephenoleary

Culchie wrote:

Who'd lend you the money?

I'm a student and I've been offered a 100% mortgage based on my part time waitering job.... anybody can get money in this country for anything!

denachoman

Rodge wrote:

Your blind adoration of AA is going to cost you a lot of money in the long run.

Saying he would never fold AA preflop in a cash game (nor would I) hardly amounts to blind adoration. It is a fairly fundamental poker statement I would have thought.

Drakar

fuzzbox wrote:

You should NEVER fold AA preflop in a cash game. NEVER. If you have folded AA preflop then you are making a very big mistake.

Of course a statement as categoric as this is incorrect. As in this instance when you are playing out of your bankroll (since the situation stipulated that you are betting your entire lifesavings), remember for most people the marginal utility of people's last remaining income his way higher than that for any extra income they get. Unless we know the utility equations for the people involved we can't categorically make this decision.

To make a clearer example, if you were asked would you call an all in for all your life savings on a 50.00001/49.00009 shot? Most people wouldn't (except for those with gambling personalities). Sure the expectation is that you would win more often than you lose, but the change in utility from losing is way bigger than winning. Would you call a 52/48? etc ... the figure that people would switch to calling would be different for most people (it's fair to assume many people [not everyone] would call a 99/1 shot). So some people would be correct to call, some people would be incorrect, it depends on their utility equations. [People should be aiming to maximise their utility not their money - see the 50.00001/49.0009 example above.].

Obviously, if you have a bankroll of $10k, and you are playing for your entire buyin ($10) at a 0.05/0.10 table, then it's obvious that many people should of course call with AA.

CoD

I was actually on the same table as clint that night.
The guy in question was not even LAG he was just crazy. He started off sucked out got up to over 1k, then back down to 300-400, then he went up to 2.4k. I kept out of his way when he reraised me etc. just waiting on a great hand to make sure. Ended up he spewed the 2.4k in about 6 hands across 3 allins when he finally didnt suck out on gutshot str8s.

clint_silver

Don't take this the wrong way, but you really really really shouldn't be playing 5/10 or 3/6 or 2/4 or any poker for that matter if you fold AA preflop in a cash game.

Do you not think it depends on the cash involved and how tight you play and how many bad beats youve had with similar in the past?

Say youve started with 750$ on a 5/10 table, worked that up to 1300 over 4-5 hours with really solid tight play coz thats your game, some guy jumps on the table with 1500, you get AA, he goes all in preflop, you go all in. he has nothing, say 67 os, but flops 2 pair and beats you and takes your hard earned money. You reload 750, 2 minutes later he goes all in again when you have AA. Do you go all in again?

I didnt take your point the wrong way, I know preflop AA is the strongest hand, but for me, theres just too many outs to risk all in. My 2 beats in my example were where i went all in postflop, the other player had 2 draws which is IMO awfully risky to keep going all in with.

anyway, the thread has been hijacked somewhat. fuzzbox gave me a good answer, thanks mate.

Culchie

whodini wrote:

I'm a student and I've been offered a 100% mortgage based on my part time waitering job.... anybody can get money in this country for anything!

Cool, you should take it then if it's being offered to you. Very nice Bank.

clint_silver

I was actually on the same table as clint that night.
The guy in question was not even LAG he was just crazy. He started off sucked out got up to over 1k, then back down to 300-400, then he went up to 2.4k. I kept out of his way when he reraised me etc. just waiting on a great hand to make sure. Ended up he spewed the 2.4k in about 6 hands across 3 allins when he finally didnt suck out on gutshot str8s.

Should have stuck around to see it. thanks for the update CoD. Was due to happen, I didnt think i was gonna get better then the hands I did have at the time so felt all in was the way to go, and even now would have played the hands similar. Im sticking at 3/6 for now to restore my confidence so maybe a while before you see me back up there .

Mr. Flibble

clint_silver wrote:

No, and Ive folded with AA against allin bets preflop.

If this was in a cash game, this means you are playing at too high stakes.

My answer to Q1 is yes, only if you have the bankroll to take the swings, because there are going to be swings unless you get lucky.

clint_silver

Quote:
Originally Posted by whodini
I'm a student and I've been offered a 100% mortgage based on my part time waitering job.... anybody can get money in this country for anything!

Cool, you should take it then if it's being offered to you. Very nice Bank.

ive heard of thread hijacking, but come on!!!

Norwich Fan Rob

Clint, u can never play your best poker if u are afraid to lose whats in front of you at the table. If this is the case, u should not be there, plain and simple.

AA pre flop is a clear favourite over any other hand, it wont always win, but it will win more often that not. This is clearly what u want to be playing , especially against a poor player who will chase draws, or call loosely pewflop.

In the long run u will win, and win big against guys chasing draws, without the odds to do so.

However, poker is not absolute in the short run, there are swings, and u need a substantial bankroll to get through these.

You must be able to laugh off a bad outdraw, and clearly mark your opponent down as one to take on, and bet big into with a hand, if he is this willing to chase poor odds draws, This will be a long run winning strategy.

From everything you have posted, u clearly have no business on those 5/10 tables. And this is no way indicates u are not a good player, just that u are playing is a game when u cannot play optimally.

fuzzbox

The whole point of a game of poker is that you try to get your money in as a favourite Vs your opponent. (and sometimes try to get your opponent to lay down his hand when he is favourite).

If you lay down AA preflop, then you are not playing the game optimally, because you are 100% sure that you are at least as strong, and most normally somewhere between 3:1 and 5:1 favourite over your opponent.
Postflop, this would be somewhat similar to having top set on a J83 two-toneflop.

But sometimes you are happy to put all your money in with 88 on an AK8 board. You are not sure that you are the favourite here, but you are reasonably confident that in the long run, if you consistently do this that you will be the favourite most of the time.

If you cannot play AA preflop for all your chips every single time, then what exactly *do* you do?

Drakar

Indeedy. You need to be playing at tables where you can be comfortable calling all in when you are ahead (in cash games). If you aren't, then you need to move down to a level where you can do so, otherwise the other players at the table can easily take advantage and you are essentially giving your money away.

fuzzbox wrote:

If you cannot play AA preflop for all your chips every single time, then what exactly *do* you do?

I hope I outlined the situation quite nicely where you souldn't call all in. But in that situation you shouldn't even be playing that level of course.

fuzzbox

clint_silver wrote:

Do you not think it depends on the cash involved and how tight you play and how many bad beats youve had with similar in the past?

Say youve started with 750$ on a 5/10 table, worked that up to 1300 over 4-5 hours with really solid tight play coz thats your game, some guy jumps on the table with 1500, you get AA, he goes all in preflop, you go all in. he has nothing, say 67 os, but flops 2 pair and beats you and takes your hard earned money. You reload 750, 2 minutes later he goes all in again when you have AA. Do you go all in again?

I didnt take your point the wrong way, I know preflop AA is the strongest hand, but for me, theres just too many outs to risk all in. My 2 beats in my example were where i went all in postflop, the other player had 2 draws which is IMO awfully risky to keep going all in with.

anyway, the thread has been hijacked somewhat. fuzzbox gave me a good answer, thanks mate.

I really have to wonder if you are joking.

clint_silver

5/10 tends to be more aggressive than 3/6 which is more aggressive than 2/4 and so on and so on. Thus, the swings are bigger (5/10 is nearly double the size of the 3/6 game). You need a solid bankroll in order to cope with the swings that you will invariably encounter at this level (and at any level really).

In order to play 5/10, the recommendation is that you have a 20k bankroll (20 times the buy-in).


I find that the hardest thing about moving up, is that the amount of money you are now playing for is much bigger each time (usually the stakes double), and it takes some time to adjust to this new amount.

Not sure which bit you think Im joking about, but the answer you gave above was a bit insightful to 5/10 table play which was what I was looking for.

There seems to more discusion on the thread about how youd play AA preflop then the questions I asked about players on a 5/10 table which is why i said thread was hijacked somewhat.

If someone plays tight, which I try to do, then there are too many outs preflop no matter WHAT I have. I have no problem admitting I am afraod to lose what I have in front of me preflop in a cash game. postflop or tourneys are different where game situations change.

Drakar

This I think is why people are suggesting you look at smaller limits. Not a comment on your skills, but you have to be able to call an all in if you know you are ahead in a cash game if your aim is to maximise cash (except for very weird circumstances).

fuzzbox

clint_silver wrote:

Not sure which bit you think Im joking about, but the answer you gave above was a bit insightful to 5/10 table play which was what I was looking for.

There seems to more discusion on the thread about how youd play AA preflop then the questions I asked about players on a 5/10 table which is why i said thread was hijacked somewhat.

If someone plays tight, which I try to do, then there are too many outs preflop no matter WHAT I have. I have no problem admitting I am afraod to lose what I have in front of me preflop in a cash game. postflop or tourneys are different where game situations change.

This is incorrect thinking. You should be looking for opportunities to get your money in as a big favourite. Holding AA preflop you have one of the best opportunities available.

It doesnt matter how many outs there are, nor how many times you get bad-beat with it, you are still a substantial favourite, and getting at least 3:1 on your money (you are getting even money on something that you will win 75% of the time).

If you make the play 100 times, and you wager 1000, and your opponent also wagers 1000, then in the long run you will win 75000, but lose 25000. That is a total profit of 50000. Thus, on average, each time you do it you will make a profit of 500.
500 per hand .... that is utterly huge.

Also - sometimes you are 4:1 favourite, or 5:1 .... folding AA is devastatingly bad. It is BEST when all the money is in preflop. It is more difficult to play it postflop.

If you fold, then you have wasted this opportunity, and essentially you have cost yourself money.

accensi0n

clint_silver wrote:

Say youve started with 750$ on a 5/10 table, worked that up to 1300 over 4-5 hours with really solid tight play coz thats your game, some guy jumps on the table with 1500, you get AA, he goes all in preflop, you go all in. he has nothing, say 67 os, but flops 2 pair and beats you and takes your hard earned money. You reload 750, 2 minutes later he goes all in again when you have AA. Do you go all in again?

Of course! The only reason you don't is if your playing at such high limits that your **** scared of losing a whole buyin like yourself.

You have to except getting outdrawn. The reason you don't is because your not comfortable losing a significant amount of money in a short space of time.

You should move down limits.

FastMachine

clint_silver wrote:

Do you not think it depends on the cash involved and how tight you play and how many bad beats youve had with similar in the past?

Say youve started with 750$ on a 5/10 table, worked that up to 1300 over 4-5 hours with really solid tight play coz thats your game, some guy jumps on the table with 1500, you get AA, he goes all in preflop, you go all in. he has nothing, say 67 os, but flops 2 pair and beats you and takes your hard earned money. You reload 750, 2 minutes later he goes all in again when you have AA. Do you go all in again?

Of course you do. 4-1 on to win with your whole stack, how can you even ask this question? If you wouldn't go all in here, when would you? You obviously don't have the bankroll for 5/10 and I don't see how you could have the ability either if you're asking questions like that. Build your bankroll up to a sufficient level and you'll make a fortune off this type of player.

Imposter

Can you let us know in advance the next time you'll be playing 5/10 please Clint?

Thanks.

5starpool

Imposter wrote:

Can you let us know in advance the next time you'll be playing 5/10 please Clint?

Thanks.

No need for the sniping......

clint_silver

In my defence your honour, I did say that this was my first time on a 5/10 table and I did say Im back down to my favored 3/6 and will be quite some time before Im back up.

I am financially able to handle relatively large down swings but would (obviously) rather not. After one largish recent downswing I decided I needed to change my game, so I made a decision some time ago to never go all in preflop no matter what I have*. Thats just me and the way I play and noone is going to convince me of different. IMO Theres more then one way of playing.
My game changes postflop, (see first post in this thread). This way of playing is serving me quite well and Im happy with it and is serving me modest returns, again see first post.

You have to except getting outdrawn.

I think Ive been misunderstood with the nature of this thread. Please let me make this clear. Im really not complaining about the beat or being outdrawn. My question, AGAIN, was are there people more likely to be indifferent with their money on the higher tables as Ive rarely if ever seens that behaviour on the tables I had been playing. Its been cleared up a litle by CoD, this guy was just crazy, methinks I was just unfortunate I hit him on first time at a 5/10 and was outdrawn twice.

*I think the only time I would go all in AA is when either stack is low or its tourney and I need to double up, but the theory behind both those cases are probably the same thing.

Culchie

clint_silver wrote:

In my defence your honour, I did say that this was my first time on a 5/10 table and I did say Im back down to my favored 3/6 and will be quite some time before Im back up.

I am financially able to handle relatively large down swings but would (obviously) rather not. After one largish recent downswing I decided I needed to change my game, so I made a decision some time ago to never go all in preflop no matter what I have*. Thats just me and the way I play and noone is going to convince me of different. IMO Theres more then one way of playing.
My game changes postflop, (see first post in this thread). This way of playing is serving me quite well and Im happy with it and is serving me modest returns, again see first post.

I think Ive been misunderstood with the nature of this thread. Please let me make this clear. Im really not complaining about the beat or being outdrawn. My question, AGAIN, was are there people more likely to be indifferent with their money on the higher tables as Ive rarely if ever seens that behaviour on the tables I had been playing. Its been cleared up a litle by CoD, this guy was just crazy, methinks I was just unfortunate I hit him on first time at a 5/10 and was outdrawn twice.

*I think the only time I would go all in AA is when either stack is low or its tourney and I need to double up, but the theory behind both those cases are probably the same thing.

Clint, you've been given some pretty good advice here on this thread. It's basically unanimous as well, which is very unusual, which really should be ringing bells with you.

You had the right idea in asking the question, I think you should take very careful note of the answers.

You're an adult, so it's your call, but as sure as night follows day, you are going bust unless you move down the limits.

cardshark202

If I was playing way above my limits with all I had left and someone put me all in and I'm holding AA it would be like a dream come true. Especially if he turns up something like A8o.:)

cardshark202

clint_silver wrote:

am financially able to handle relatively large down swings but would (obviously) rather not. After one largish recent downswing I decided I needed to change my game, so I made a decision some time ago to never go all in preflop no matter what I have*. Thats just me and the way I play and noone is going to convince me of different. IMO Theres more then one way of playing.
My game changes postflop, (see first post in this thread). This way of playing is serving me quite well and Im happy with it and is serving me modest returns, again see first post.
*I think the only time I would go all in AA is when either stack is low or its tourney and I need to double up, but the theory behind both those cases are probably the same thing.

To be honest I've never seen such flawed thinking posted on these boards before. If you think you're saving money you're not, you're losing money.

clint_silver

:eek: :eek: :eek: AAAAHH Its like noones reading my replies. :eek: :eek: :eek:

Firstly, i didnt even want to start discussing how i play AA, I wanted to discuss the type of player on 5/10. I think this is my fourth time saying this. I dont even know how would I play AA come into it?

Let me recap with what Im hoping is my last "how do I play AA preflop" reply. I play most of my game postflop. thats how i play, i may change in the future but thats how I play now. I'll stay involved with large hands preflop AA, KK, AK, QQ etc, will bet the recommended 3xBB/4xBB unless other players have been behaving differently/Im out of position/stack count low but if someone goes all in against me PF when I could lose most/all my stack, I aint doing it. now if someone calls all in and its not all/most my stack in then sure Im going with them. (maybe I didnt make that clear)

To be honest I've never seen such flawed thinking posted on these boards before. If you think you're saving money you're not, you're losing money.

I know I will win more times then not if I go all in pre with AA. I know the maths involved. Its just a play I have chosen to not get involved in due to my own fears of taking LARGE one off beats, so I dont see it as flawed, its just something I have to get over. Can we please leave the preflop play discussion at that.


culchie:

Clint, you've been given some pretty good advice here on this thread. It's basically unanimous as well, which is very unusual, which really should be ringing bells with you.

You had the right idea in asking the question, I think you should take very careful note of the answers.

You're an adult, so it's your call, but as sure as night follows day, you are going bust unless you move down the limits.

Thanks C, I take your point and its one i was aware of and took at the time of my one and only play at 5/10. But I felt the foray was worth it at the time as i was consistently doing well at 3/6. But again, methinks my replies here arent being read fully or Im not making myself clear hence can anyone else who wants to reply to this thread, please read the first post and then make replies based on the questions posed there?

thanks for everyones replies on the other topic tho, they are being read.

MrPillowTalk

clint_silver wrote:

1) should anyone be sitting down at a table with this type of player?

Short answer, absolutely any one who wants to make money should.

Longer answer, if your roll is tight then playing this player is all about your own attitude to risk/return. Personally when I am going through patches where I am losing I love to play at tables where I can gamble with players willing to play with weaker hands than they should, this represents to me the most efficient way to rebuild my roll. However there is another school of thought and many posts on 2+2 cover it far better than I will, they say you should look to be playing weak tight opponents when your roll is under pressure as these players represent the least variance and you can grind a small return out without having to make the tough decisions that good and bad lag players will have you making regularly. Given an optimal bank roll having players who overplay draws at any level is a dream.

clint_silver wrote:

And 2) do you encounter this type of player more often at larger blinds tables because I dont see it too often at 3/6 where Ive been happily residing since.

Yes you do encounter them more often at higher blind tables, click on their location they all are part of the same family in the scandanavian mountains somewhere, secret love children of gus hansen

Seriously though at 5/10 and higher the main differences are that 1) you will be forced to make a lot more tough decisions. 2) there is a certain type of player that will beat most games up to 3/6, I dont want to describe them as weak tight because they are fundamentally sound players usually, but this is the best description really. This type of player is well able to play strong hands aggresively but as the ammount of aggression at the table rises someone will get them in the end. I see this type of player fail at 5/10 all the time but consistently beat the next level down. Reading this back I havent done a very good job of explaining what Im trying to say but I hope you catch my drift. I am not advocating loosening your play up, plenty of tight players make a fortune at 5/10 but all of them to a man are more than willing to stick it in if they think they are a decent favourite, the run of beats that can happen are par for the course, in the long run..........................etc.

I hope this helps with your questions but on another note as allready said in previous posts if you are at a 5/10 table with only 4k back, you will go bust, simple as that. As for the AA comments I think maybe some low risk treasury bank bonds may be more suited to your risk appetitte I jest I jest, but maybe you should loosen up a bit.

As far as the 10/1 payout with aa vs k3 for my life savings, Id rip your arm off to get this bet on, if it was an evens payout I pass my line is somewhere inbetween.

aidankk

clint im just thinking should you give maybe 5-10 or 10-20 limit a try instead of no limit the way you are thinking on those tables.

general pots are usually just as big, but there is no chance of loosing a bankrool in one hand...

in 5-10 or 10-20 on stars a pre flop raise will usually get only one caller...

Stear clear of ppp tough limit is wild on any limit on it.....

Just think it might suit your style of play better than no limit.....

I moved to limit last year and it worked great for me...

One point tough draws will always call in limit so be prepared for more suck outs..... but conversly more calling down with second pair etc....

clint_silver

mrpillowtalk, ive saved off your post as its about as good a description of 5/10 play as I could wish for. thanks for taking the time to script the detailed, insightful reply.

aiden, I'll definitely give that a try, I actually started playing on stars last week and have been making modest returns on the 3/6 lim table. Ive actually found it hard to get used to the swings on the lim table on stars compared to lim on ppp. I might be playing for 2 hrs on stars and only be up or down 20 where that could easily be 200 on ppp!! Wassup with that?

on an aside, IMO the skin/gui on stars is horrible compared to PPP. yuck..., but as long as the money is coming in we wont let it affect us, no we wont.

Ste05

clint_silver wrote:

on an aside, IMO the skin/gui on stars is horrible compared to PPP. yuck..., but as long as the money is coming in we wont let it affect us, no we wont.

Clint you'll soon learn to Love Stars just as much as the rest of us.

But one tip for you, if you start to play Limit on Stars at these kind of Levels you should get PokerTracker and PokerAce HUD without delay.

Until recently PPP (Tribeca network) did not support PokerTracker. So you probably weren't hampered by this. However a huge majority of Stars players at this level will be using PokerTracker to analyse your play (especially in Limit) and you'll just be at a huge disadvantage if you don't have it too.

www.pokertracker.com for more info.

clint_silver

But one tip for you, if you start to play Limit on Stars at these kind of Levels you should get PokerTracker and PokerAce HUD without delay

Nice one Ste ... And right on cue...Got tracker last weekend, havent had time to use it yet, had tonight pencilled in! Didnt know about pokerace HUD, will see about it tonight too.

Ste05

here's a good starter point for PT

and here's the PAHUD website

clint_silver

christmas card in the post...