Greystones Community Group

Marcais

Charlesland residents would all have received some glossy pamphlets with e.g. a picture of some concrete slabs and large stones which they have labelled as "our harbour", promoting the marina development. They obviously don't think they can get enough reaction by posting a picture of the actual harbour as it stands.

So who are The Greystones Community Group? and who is funding this expensive campaign. The people who delivered these misleading leaflets in my door told me that they didn't know about any of the issues misrepresented in the leaflets and that "we are just getting some money" in broken English.

This campaign is funded by vested interests and this is what we are up against. The ordinary people of Greystones do not have this kind of money to have professionaly printed propoganda and pay people to deliver them.
I have no self-motivation in my opposition to this Marina and I am willing to stop on anybody's doorstep and discuss my opposition, unlike these fly-by-nights who won't even put their names on their misrepresentations.

So who do you believe, the highly financed people with vested interests hiding behing these glossy leaflets, or the 90%+ ordinary people of Greystones who are giving up their time and spending their own money to promote a sensitive refurbishment of their harbour and keep something good for the children of Greystones and for their children?

greystones c.g.

The Greystones Community Group is made up of 250 people who all live in the Greystones area and support the Harbour project. Contact can be made at Email: greystonescommunitygroup@hotmail.com or by phoning 086-2037396.
The newsletter was distributed by local people in the group born and breed in Greystones, If you would like to meet the 4 people who distributed the newsletter in Charlesland this can be arranged. We are volunteers and did not get any money from outside the Group. to say you spoke to someone with broken English who only did it for money is not true, We are ordinary people living in Greystones who believe that the truth should be told so we produced a very unbiased leaflet so people can make up there own minds.If you Marcais would like to meet any of us at any time this can be arranged. We have had hugh possitive reaction to the leaflet and any reasonable person who has read it would agree. PEOPLE ARE FED UP WITH PEOPLE WHO CANNOT TELL THE TRUTH this leaflet tells the plain facts If you would like a copy of the leaflet called "The Marina What's the deal" please contact at the above. Please contact us if you would like to support the Marina Project.
We have nothing to hide have you?

Marcais

I take some of your points HUGS.Your leaflets have been of great value to us in showing Greystones residents more cleary the scale of the planned development and how completely unsympathetic it is to it's environment. Fair play to you for spending your own money on these glossy leaflets, "build harbour now" pens and keyrings etc. We unfortuantely don't have the same spending power and have to rely on personal inkjet printers etc. but thankfully public opinion is very much on "our" side.

You are either unaware of the actual lack of support for this marina or you choose to misrepresent it. There IS at least 85% of Greystones against this development. Have the people in favour of this development been on holiday for the last 3 weeks, and where do they live?

We were outside the Burnaby last Saturday for 3 hours. We got 200 signatures opposed to the development, 6 people claimed to be in favour (3 flippantly) and 4 undecided. This is also representative of the numbers in Charlesland and Burnaby Lawns, Millbrook etc. We have at least 3,000 signed petititions and this does not include the enormous amount of people who have signed and sent their own submisssions.
I do realise that there is a small minority in favour of the tasteless marina development who have to be listened to. Of the few I spoke to who were opposed to the marina they mostly agreed that the development was unsightly but were willing to accept this because they or their spouses were members of the coast guard, rowing club, or angling clubs. Now nobody would argue that these facilities should be provided, but it is selfish to expect the community to behind this abomination so that a few clubs have better facilities for watersports (I don't include the coast guards in that).

The council have neglected their responsibilities in maintaining the harbour and it's surrounds for many years. This is a vulgar attempt to wash their hands of the responsibilities for past neglect and short-term future maintenance.

Don't let them them away with this blackmail, you, me and the Irish people have a right to demand better. There is no reason why with competent management, reasoned planning and consultation, a marina development can be designed that is self financed* and will be satisfactory to all.

*how much would a two-bed townhouse with guaranteed unrestricted views of the sea for eternity by the harbour sell for? How much could it be rented for? Multiply that times 50 or 70 and there's your financing. But that would be too much like work for our public representatives.

greystones c.g.

We have nothing to do with "Hugs" or the "Build harbour now"
At least you seem to agree our leaflet is fair if you except that we have educated the people of Greystones. Who is the "us" in your second sentance?
Come out of the woodwork and be honest
[B]PLEASE READ THE LEAFLET . IT IS FAIR AND HONEST.
you did not mention your false remarks about the people who delivered the leaflet to you in Charlesland that is if you live there at all, if you can lie about that what does that do to your facts and figures.
Public opinion is not on yourside there should be no sides just honest debate.
Copies of the leaflet can be ordered from Greystonescommunitygroup@hotmail.com

Marcais

"us" is myself and my next door neighbours in Charlesland "The Charlesland Community Group" who are campaigning against this development, not for any vested self-interest but because it is an appalling plan and we are giving any objections we receive to the GPDA. There are plenty of users on this forum who know me, not that this is a personal issue.

Now if this is about repeating ourselves as you have just done, let me reiterate, the support against the development is evidenced by the 3,000 minimum submissions collected by the GPDA and submited individually by the Greystones public.

So do you have any evidence whatsoever of your claims to public support? I have not seen any.

Greystones Rugby Club was full to capacity at the 31st January meeting opposed to the development. It is also evidenced by polls such as the one on this site and by the sentimnets on this site. I can state confidentally that this development is opposed by a vast majority. It's a shame that a plebiscite did not take place (as I'm sure you'd be in favour of!), but when An Bord Pleanala publish the number of objections received on 19th February or so, it will be clear that the people have spoken!

ps. Like I say, your leaflets were very helpful, and I showed the pictures to everyone I spoke to recently, it is only fair to point out both sides.

greystones c.g.

You are still avoiding the question.:rolleyes: Were you being truthful when you said and I Quote:
"So who are The Greystones Community Group? and who is funding this expensive campaign. The people who delivered these misleading leaflets in my door told me that they didn't know about any of the issues misrepresented in the leaflets and that "we are just getting some money" in broken English.":o
Misleading, expensive,misrepresented, " make up your mind is it or is not a truthful leaflet have you a problem with people with broken English.::(
So please just answer the question were you telling lies?: A simple yes or no will do.

Marcais

OK I'll try to calm you down.:rolleyes: and address the lesser of these issues first. I will admit that I have no evidence of you being funded by Sispar etc. or of "Build Harbour Now" being funded by Sispar, but there has been a lot of money spent in promoting this marina and if this is from private individuals, would they not be better off, supporting coastguards, sea scouts etc. But lack of evidence has not stopped the pro-marina side of the argument spread mistruths about old people being harrassed at their doors by GPDA members, calling us "hooligans", tearing posters torn down etc. (I'm not suggesting that your members did this )

Your leaflets and various other advertisements were posted in my hall door late on the night in question. Like I said I asked the individuals if they would discuss the leaflets and that was the reply I got. Now there is no indication anywhere in my posting that I have a problem with people with broken English, so please do not make such appalling accusations. I'd expect that from a tabloid newspaper as an attempt to deflect from the topic. (I should have forseen this and not mentioned that these people were not Irish nationals, and my apologies to your "250 members" if these were not the people who delivered your leaflets. All these materials appeared to have been delivered together, I am entitled to draw my own conclusions but I accept that your leaflets MAY have been delivered earlier).

Now how about actually addressing some of the issues e.g. Do you have any evidence of support?

I will add "Omission" to "misrepresentation" and "Misleading" from my initial comments

The picture of "Your Harbour" on the front of your leaflet is a picture of The Harbour? large slabs and rocks to stop erosion. MISREPRESENTATION -would a picture of the actual harbour not suffice? The harbour is in a poor enough state without you having to resort to this.

Your leaflet states that care has been taken to ensure that care has been taken to ensure that overall scenic views from Greystones are preserved. MISLEADING - it is absolutely clear that scenic views of the beach and Bray Head will be destroyed.

"The project will bring an additional 375 residential units to Greystones. This is the minimum required to make the overall development economically viable" -MISLEADING - The GPDA, (as you are well aware if you are familiar with the issue), with the aid of local consultants and architects prepared plans for the harbour area. The implementaion would cost about €30m and involve 70 residential units located further back from the harbour.

"Is there another way forward? Not Really"....."If this proposal is rejected, sadly, there is no economically viable alternative" "it really is either/or" -MISLEADING (at best) see above re. alternative.

"It is estimated that 15 large trucks will come to the site during the heaviset period of construction" MISLEADING/OMISSION - According to council figures 15 large trucks will enter AND leave the harbour every hour i.e every two minutes a truck will pass through Blacklion and under the railway bridge at the harbour during the construction phase, (no actual mention of "heaviest period) for two years and a similar volume can be expected for 2-3 years afterwards.

"Arrangements will be made to ensure that this additioanl traffic is minimised during rush-hour AND school drop offs AND collection times" IMPOSSIBLE !:D (What part of the planning application is this gleaned from?) Rush hour Greystones 7:30am to 9 am, school and creche drop offs, lunch times etc. at the various levels of education probaly half an hour of every hour in the day! Evening rush hour is 4:30 to 7PM some evenings. And a commercial developer is going to risk the enormous additional costs of having materials delayed so as not to interrupt local traffic and school runs :rolleyes: You cannot be serious! And if so how long is the proposed 5 years of disruption actually going to extend to?

"NOBODY WANTS....Our young children hanging around..with nothing to do"
-MISLEADING- How is 6,400m sq of commercial units and a 230 berth marina for private yachts providing children with something to do. Sea scouts and your othe clubs are already in place. A lot of people I spoke to said that you were "insulting their intelligence" by making statements like these. What for example might local children do tonight at a marina?

Looking forward to your reply to all of the issues raised, noting that the alternative proposal addresses all of the issues mentioned in your leaflet.

greystones c.g.

Stop moving the goal posts, when did Sispar come into the debate?
What is your proposal for the clubs? None . Not in your plan.
What is your plan for the young people to do at night ? Can not seem to find it in your proposal any where.
What are you doing for the clubs? Not in your proposal.
Next point :The leaflets were delivered by the people that wrote them you never spoke to anyone. YOU CANNOT ACCEPT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WANT THIS DEVELOPMENT. GIVE US THE FIGURES? 70 HOUSES CAN NOT PAY FOR YOUR PROPOSAL. 70 houses would not pay for the coastal protection
Let alone anything else
The Harbour is in a shocking state, the the picture tells a thousand words, go on stick your head in the sand there is plenty of it. Why not just concrete it in and make a car park out of it ?
Any way did you realy talk to foreign nationals born in Greystones or was it just a dream like everything else in your plan.
COLOR] Is there middle ground ? Not where you are coming from.
Just be honest you cannot see the wood from the trees
It is worth noting that the majority of people have chosen to support this project. What might teenagers ( children will be in bed ) do in your planned harbour. O i know wait another 100 years.
Kind regards
The Real Greystones Community.

Marcais

How is addressing the issues in your leaflet "moving the goalposts" ?

I have raised valid objections to the misrepresentaions in your leaflets and you have not been able to counter one of them. A very poor showing!

We have not made any claim that the GPDA alternative will solve the issue that the "Greystones Community Group" raised of "youths on the streets" If we did make such a claim, we would indeed be able to back it up.

I have to commend the Greystones Community Group and it's 250 members however for their work throughout Greystones over the years with the general community and in particular youth and elderly of the parish