PLO hand in the Fitz 50 Round of each game

5starpool

This is a hand that has been rattling round where my brain should be for the last week, and I'd like to think what opinions of this are.

I had stated I was leaving at the end of this round, and this was the last hand of Omaha, therefore my last hand. I was UTG in this hand.

Relevant players/positions/approx stacks

Chinese Ken/button/400
Me/UTG/400
Daisy/UTG+1/120
Dave Hall/UTG+2/240

Was raised to 8 preflop and I called with 4c5s6s8h to see the flop. 6 players in the hand, so pot ~50.

Flop 6c7dQs

I checked, Daisy checked, Dave Hall bet pot(50), Ken called, I called, Daisy called.

Turn Jd - so board 6c7dQsJd

I check, Daisy checks, Dave Hall all in for ~180, Ken calls. Me?

I am fairly sure Dave has 2 pair/low trips, or possibly even less as he has been aggressive in each pot til then. I have a huge wrap on the straight, 3,4,5,8,9 will fill my hand. 180 to call from my (then) 350 stack. ~560 in pot before I act, with one player to act after me who has only about 60 left.

What would be your action here? I felt confident that if I hit the straight in any form it would be good (back door diamonds excepted, have to expect one of the opp to have that).

All thoughts welcome. For purposes of this, ignore fact that you probably might not like playing out of position with this hand. I wanted to see a flop on my last hand if a reasonable price.

Samba

I am fairly sure Dave has 2 pair/low trips, or possibly even less as he has been aggressive in each pot til then. I have a huge wrap on the straight, 3,4,5,8,9 will fill my hand. 180 to call from my (then) 350 stack. ~560 in pot before I act, with one player to act after me who has only about 60 left.

You are getting correct odds with your outs still there, I am sure the more knowledgeable Omaha players will give you a better answer.
Many of your outs are in your hand. For this reason, I am laying it down and going home.

In fact just ignore me, I really am clueless when it comes to Omaha, I really just wanted to test out the new sig

fuzzbox

Oh dear.

Ok, I'll bite - but you probably wont like it.

Fold preflop, your hand is gapped too high, and you are out of position. Clearly you were entranced by your "last hand".
Fold on the flop, you are not always drawing to the nuts, and even if you do hit your hand, there will be plenty of redraws against you, so you might make your hand, get it all-in and still lose.
Fold on the turn, now there is a flush draw. And the QJ is out, possibly counterfeiting the 8s and 9s (which might already be counterfeited in any case).

If anybody has diamonds, which is extremely likely given that there is an all-in and a call in front of you, then a lot of your outs are tainted. Only a 3 or 4 gives you the nuts, as you can probably expect at least one other player to have some form of straight draw here, and even then its only the non-diamond versions.

I have passed this hand preflop, and so am not faced with this tough decision with a bad drawing hand, out of position in a big pot against at least one player who has a strong made hand, and the other who might be dominating my draw, or even splitting the pot with me.

fixer

I couldn't rule out 8,9,10,j with possibly two diamonds being in there, so that reduces your clean outs to the bottom end non diamonds (5-7 outs) so you don't have the pot odds to call.

careca

Like Samba, I reckon the omaha boys will give a better answer, but I would probably fold also.

I would discount the 9s as outs, although you are confident your str8 will win, its very possibly someone could have K10 in their hand or 810. That gives you 9 outs if you are excluding the diamonds (3x3s, 2x 4s, 5s and 8s). thats about 5/1 and the pot is only giving slightly over 3/1. I'm prob way out in my calculations but I would fold here.

fuzzbox

fixer wrote:

I couldn't rule out 8,9,10,j with possibly two diamonds being in there, so that reduces your clean outs to the bottom end non diamonds (5-7 outs) so you don't have the pot odds to call.

I would be very surprised if 89 didnt show up in somebodies hand at the very least. (Probably Kens)

cardshark202

Maybe you could raise on the flop to try and push out weak draws that may counterfeit your outs (i.e. two pair, lone 89, etc). as it stands I think I would fold on the turn maybe.

5starpool

cardshark202 wrote:

Maybe you could raise on the flop to try and push out weak draws that may counterfeit your outs (i.e. two pair, lone 89, etc). as it stands I think I would fold on the turn maybe.

I had certainly contemplated doing that, but Dave Hall would have been guaranteed to call, even it it got rid of Ken/Daisy. I was sure Dave had some of it but not a huge chunk. I didnt think Ken would go away either after a raise having called Dave's initial 50, and then 250 from me, which would have been called by Dave (100%), Ken would have still liked whatever hand he was willing to play for that. Ken and Dave regularly play the 100 game so this was a small hand by that standards.

cardshark202

If you thought Ken liked his hand that much then you are probably drawing thinner than your hand suggests. He could be sitting on 589T maybe which has your hand in terrible shape. I would possibly fold on the flop but almost certainly fold the turn in this case then.

5starpool

cardshark202 wrote:

If you thought Ken liked his hand that much then you are probably drawing thinner than your hand suggests. He could be sitting on 589T maybe which has your hand in terrible shape. I would possibly fold on the flop but almost certainly fold the turn in this case then.

Ken having a holding like that would have been a guaranteed raise straight off. I figured Ken for top/bottom pair or a similiar but smaller wrap than mine. Ken knew as well as me that Dave was in 'raise' mode without premium holdings. Ken had made several raises with high end wraps in the course of the game.

5starpool

cardshark202 wrote:

If you thought Ken liked his hand that much then you are probably drawing thinner than your hand suggests. He could be sitting on 589T maybe which has your hand in terrible shape. I would possibly fold on the flop but almost certainly fold the turn in this case then.

Ken having a holding like that would have been a guaranteed raise straight off. I figured Ken for top/bottom pair or a similiar but smaller wrap than mine. Ken knew as well as me that Dave was in 'raise' mode without premium holdings. Ken had made several raises with high end wraps in the course of the game. He had also stalled slightly before calling 50. These are generally players whose styles I know quite well.

biteme

Have to agree with most of the people here. I wouldn't be calling with this wrap on the flop. Unless you hit the bottom end of it your probably going to be behind. When your up against 3 others its unlikely that your wrap is good if you hit the top. And I really don't think you can call on the turn after the flush draw comes too.

RoundTower

I don't like discussing individual players in the game here, but I think you know you are not getting paid off by Ken if you make your hand. Also no one has mentioned that you are very likely drawing to half the pot. So given this lineup with only 5 nut outs I fold. I call preflop and check/call the flop though.

cardshark202

5starpool wrote:

Ken having a holding like that would have been a guaranteed raise straight off. I figured Ken for top/bottom pair or a similiar but smaller wrap than mine. Ken knew as well as me that Dave was in 'raise' mode without premium holdings. Ken had made several raises with high end wraps in the course of the game.

Yeah thats probably right but if Dave has say top two/set and ken had top & bottom, then you're best raising the flop because dave and ken could be cancelling each other out Against both those hands you'd be in pretty good shape.

I had a similiar problem last night. Sitting in the 50 all omaha, i called a small raise of about 10 from the BB with 3c5c6h7s. Flop is K24 (two spades) SB leads for pot of about 75, i re-raise all in for about 210, folded to SB who insta-calls with KKrag-rag. Turn is a 5, bye bye money. Rounded off a bad night for me in that game.

5starpool

RoundTower wrote:

I don't like discussing individual players in the game here, but I think you know you are not getting paid off by Ken if you make your hand. Also no one has mentioned that you are very likely drawing to half the pot. So given this lineup with only 5 nut outs I fold. I call preflop and check/call the flop though.

This is what I figured after a dwell. Diamonds ruled out 5 cards, I figured Ken had very similiar to me. And I wasn't drawing to the nuts in most cases, but that wasn't the part that bothered me in this particular hand.

River came 2 of spades, Dave had 2 pair and a diamond draw and won the hand. Ken had 3,4,5 in his hand. Only reason I asked is that AN Other beside me couldn't believe I folded that hand, and I just wanted other opinions.

Cheers all.

Names were used only to help those that know the game to understand my reasons for wanting to draw to non nuts. I hadn't intended, and hope I didn't say anything that upsets anyone. I know what you mean though and will try to use alternatives again.