Re: Help With Brakes, Or Lack off

johnplayerblue

Hey!
I had the pads replaced on a mk3 golf the other day and knew it was gona take a couple hundread miles for them to be 100% effective. When i got it home i noticed that the brake and clutch fluid reservoir although thight was under a lot of pressure as there was fluid all over the reservoir and master cylinder. Been lazy i got a 13 spanner and opened the first line at the bottom of the resisovor in order to drain it somewhat, to do this i had to pump the brakes a few times for it to pump out so to speak, half way through i was called away and as there was no sign of the fluid flowing under its own pressure i forgot about it for an hour or so only to return and find that there wasn't a drop of fluid left, after a bit of head scratching and foul language i went to the local garage and picked up some Dot 4 brake and clutch fluid off which the whole 250mls were needed, jumped in started the engine, no brake light this time, all looked well except i have very little brakes, and i mean very little, i know vw brakes are a little soft but my foot is to the floor before i get a reaction.
Is there air traped in the line? if so how do i bleed brakes?
or rather is it a major job?
Some help please as i need the car at 5:30am

mike65

Dear God! A little knowledge is a dangerous thing..etc.

When i got it home i noticed that the B/C fluid resisovor although thight was under a lot of pressure as there was fluid all over the resisovor and master cylinder.

I'm not quite sure what this means. It pays to be clear in technical matters.

Mike.

fletch

mike65 wrote:

Dear God! A little knowledge is a dangerous thing..etc.

Kinda scary alright reading this.....stuff like brakes I leave to people who know what they are doin.

mike65

Leaving a brake fluid job halfway through is asking for trouble. The best course of action is to start fresh, drain the whole system and make sure you have enough fresh fluid to fully bleed the system. If the job is done right there should be no problem with the brake pedal action/feel.

Mike.

murphaph

Pal, you've let air into the hydraulic lines by opening up that union. Air compresses, brake fluid does not. That's why your foot now travels to the floor and you get no braking effort. After reading what you did I'm going to say something I rarely say on here-take it to a professional or at least find a very competent mate to completely flush and refill the system with new fluid.

Your origial problem was just one of new pads taking time to 'bed in'.

murphaph

mike65 wrote:

Leaving a brake fluid job halfway through is asking for trouble. The best course of action is to start fresh, drain the whole system and make sure you have enough fresh fluid to fully bleed the system. If the job is done right there should be no problem with the brake pedal action/feel.

Mike.

Mike, from y reading of it (both in the language used and the fact that a VW doesn't have a 13mm bleed nipple, more like 8-11mm) he didn't open a slave cylinder bleed nipple like you'd do when bleeding the brakes. He opened a hydraulic union "just below the reservoir"-something you'd never really do. He is not competent to remedy this himself and I jst don't want the guy hurting himself so I'd recommend he sees a mechanic or very competent mate.

To the OP, no offence is meant here mate, by the way-I hope you wiped up any fluid that dribbled from he reservoir as it'll likely be dribbling down your painted bulkhead and it strips paint.

johnplayerblue

It goes without saying that the car ain't leaving the yard if the brakes are not what they should be, as its my own car i want to learn how to at least bleed the system, which i suppose the garage that put the pads in should have done but didn't. As its sunday and i need to get to work in the morning i need the car but as stated theres no way id take a car out that i didn't feel was right, which is why the pads were replaced. Since posting i have had it looked at and it turns out that there is air traped in the lines which would explain why the pedal is so soft, unlike liquid, air can be compressed. So when enough air fills the lines, input at the pedal merely causes the air to compress instead of creating pressure at the brake!

johnplayerblue

To the OP, no offence is meant here mate, by the way-I hope you wiped up any fluid that dribbled from he reservoir as it'll likely be dribbling down your painted bulkhead and it strips paint.[/QUOTE]

No offence what so ever! the reason for posting is to know in my own mind when to stop and get it looked at or to continue and try and sort it, boards is better than a web site as people will tell you - look you don't know what your doing leave it and pay to have it done safely.

murphaph

Fair play to you for wanting to learn, we all have to learn sometime. Did you get it sorted yet or did a mate just look at it for ya?

johnplayerblue

He just had a look and said pretty much the same as you guys, so it looks like my sis will be up at the crack of dawn also. Mid week before he has a chance to look at it so its no all bad. Ill stay with him and have a good look at the way he goes about it, he pointed me to a good easy to understand site on the matter http://www.teamscr.com/brakes.html if its of any use to anyone (like me). As for wanting to learn more about cars and mantinance i'm a late starter but i do want to learn and not always be at the mercy of garages.One good thing about the older golfs is how easy it is to work with them and loads of room to turn a spanner, anyways tnks for the warning and the help.

murphaph

No worries, hope it's all sorted soon. I had 2 MkII Golfs a few years back-those were the days when VW really was a quality motor.

colm_mcm

try getting a Haynes manual, these have step by step guides on how to fix almost everything, and have manuals on specific cars.

Henry Ford III

Bleeding a hydraulic braking system is actually easy enough to do even on your own. You need a brake bleeding kit (essentially a see through line going through a non return valve into a bottle). I got one at a Factors a coupe of years ago and it's great.

1/. Unscrew resevoir cap. Make sure it's full to the max. mark.

2/. Starting at the wheel furthest from the master cyinder, unscew the bleed nipple 1/2 a turn, and attach the self bleeder. From drivers seat slowly press the brake pedal (handbrake off too) 4 or 5 times to the floor. Release. Get underneath the car and if the line going into the bleeder is fluid only with no air bubbles, tighten the bleed nipple. If not go back and depress the brake pedal until the fluid is clear.

3/. Repeat 2/. on the other 3 wheels.

4/. Top up resevoir to replace lost fluid and that's it.

Good brakes are vital - your life depends on them working properly. If you are anything but 100% competent and confident, leave the work to a garage.

murphaph

For anyone reading this who's thinking of doing their own brake bleeding I would recommend the Gunson's Eezi bleed tool. It's pricey at 20 or so Euro but no pedal pushing and it's all very controlled and easy to do with virtually no contamination of the fluid with air as it's all done undr pressure. No need for nion-return valves at the bleed nipples or anything like that, just open the nipples and brake fluid comes out. Easy.