Self Defence Q???

john kavanagh

i've personally never been in a 'serious' situation such as someone coming at me with a weapon or someon trying to kill me in a fight. of all the regular guys i train (must be near a 100) i've never heard of any of them being in 'serious' situations either. now i'm not naive, i do watch the news (infrequently) and realise there are incidents but they seem to be, statistically speaking, rare. 99.99% of all serious situations i've heard of (guns, knives) were gang warfare related ie people choosing to put themselves in the 'line of fire'.

even when i 'did the doors' for 2 years in temple bar area i never saw anything that went beyond a couple of punches by guys who were so drunk, or bad at throwing punches, that the chance of it being 'serious' were remote. yes i heard of 'serious' situations happening around the city (glassings etc) but usually in places i wouldn't chose to go to. anything i did see was usually over before it started and like i said was really not what i would call serious. i realise this is horribly anecdotal and people can post stories of vicious incidents they have been involved in/seen and that there are rare random attacks.

so my question is this, if you found yourself repeatedly getting into 'serious' situations would you

a. go further down the 'eyes, throat, balls' road and learn how to hurt people as efficiently as possible

b. stop and think maybe i need to think about where i hang out?

c. stop and think maybe i need to work on my awareness?

d. stop and think what is it about my personality that continually attracts attention which leads me into 'serious' situations?

personally i'm a 'prevention is better than cure' type of person and would concentrate on b, c & d but am interested to hear other peoples opinions:)

Dragan

To be honest John i have to agree with you.

I don't go out to clubs and the like very often but one thing i have found is that in the messiest of places a quick smile and a nod of the head can solve most problems. Just the nature of busy night clubs means you gonna be knocking into people and from having spent a few years on the doors in Limerick i would put this down as one of the top reasons why arguments happen. Some knocks into some and spills there drink, or else is quite drunk and just knocking into people all night, eventually someone will get annoyed about it.

If you go out everyweekend and see or are involved in violence you have to question the places you are going to and the people that are there. I think the last time i was involved in any sort of an issue in the a pub or a club ( outside of door work - don't count them because i'm helping, not hurting ) was over 2 and a half years ago and it was a pretty soft "just leave it" kinda moment when someone got a bit aggro with a friend of mine. My friend and this other fella saw sense and that was the end of it. Why, for the most part the places i go to are pretty popular and well run and seem to have good crews on the door.

On the other hand, when i was living in Limerick for the first year there was a lot of violence, both on the doors and on my own nights out and this was solely down to my own attitude at the time, the people i was with and the places we were going.

After realising the path i was on i decided to sort myself out, and through application to the gym and some kick boxing and being taken under the wing of one of the best men to ever do a door things turned around.

So, who was to blame for the initial incidents? Me. Plain and simple. But by being honest with myself i was able to turn things around by looking at your B, C and D!!!

Millionaire

As ya know John. I train with the SD or Km or call itGerrys Wooie Gooie Kungie Fooie for the afore mentioned strikes. eyes , balls, etc. and 99% of RBSD top instructors train them.

Not that I want to use them, and also I detest fighting, I really really hate it.

Ok, I got into a few scrapes last few years. How???

Probably because I loved to hang around late night clubs, bars, and places like that. and I was very into that scene for a few years. ( I grew out of this in the past 4 or 5 months).

I never started a fight in my life, except once, when I was 22 in Fibbers McGees and scrumpy jacked out of. never touched the scrumpy since..its lethal!

I find in these late drinking holes, people be boozed up, ,the ego gets inflated, someone with a chip on the shoulder, gets worked up, and starts a row. and that is simply how I got picked on alot. I know it sounds weird, but its true!!!!!

As you know someone tried to stick a broken bottle in my face a few times last summer, (not different than a knife attack) and what I say above is more or less how it started. defended against him successfully, but his 5 buddies was a challenge. Crazy Monkey helped there.

Bottom line for years, I liked being out late night places. I was not going to sit home alone and watching Fair City re runs. Sometimes I was happy to tour these places solo even, espcially when I would be abroad.

So my point is , if you frequent these places alot, you may have a better chance of getting into situations than the lad sitting at home, to get ready for the soccer match the next day.

If someone started on me and i could not get away, and forced me into a situation I detested,I would drop them there and then. and no regrets. and I never took guff from anyone, even if I was alone.

I guess my personality attracted chip on the shoulder types who want to bash me. I was 110% into have fun and laughing, and loved the wimmin, so I guess sometimes, some dudes would get jealous and want to bash me.


Anyway aside from the scrapes. I had a great time! finished that life now.

I hope that answers the questions a little???

Colm_OReilly

I don't see the crrelation between hanging out at night clubs and fights, seeing as I'm out a couple of times a week and haven't had the chance to enter into hostile negotiations.

John, I don't think the type of people who regularly get into fughts aren't going to "stop and think" about it. This isn't meant to be a derogatory statement. Most people keep on repeating self defeating patterns in one or more areas of their life, and aren't aware of it. Even if they are aware of the frustrating nature of that part of their life, they're probably more inclined to blame situations and environment than themselves.

Word!

Michael O Leary

Hi all,

If you do find yourself frequently getting into these types of situations then you need to have a good hard look at yourself. However there is a maxim which states something like, "in war prepare for peace and in peace prepare for war". Rather than preparing for war in such a way that you train to deal with sloppy punches, etc I would advocate preparing for the worst case scenario and working backwards.

You might have a relatively small chance of having to use these skills however the same could be said for house, car, medical insurance. Another aspect related to me by one of my female students is that even if you never have to use your self-defence skills it removes the feeling of total vunerability that you would have felt before learning self-defence based martial arts. Once this feeling of fear is removed it has a positive effect on your "quality of life" and this surely is reason enough to put the hours in.

Regards,

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

loz

Michael O Leary wrote:

Hi all,

even if you never have to use your self-defence skills it removes the feeling of total vunerability that you would have felt before learning self-defence based martial arts.

Without wanted to start a "TMA useful as self defence ?" discussion - I think that You as instructors still have to be careful ( and have an obligation to ! ) not give a false sence of security to people that think they have learnt some actually useful techniques !

Millionaire

Colm_OReilly wrote:

I don't see the crrelation between hanging out at night clubs and fights, seeing as I'm out a couple of times a week and haven't had the chance to enter into hostile negotiations.

You do not see the correlation between people being drunk out of their minds in clubs and fights. Are ya living in a cocoon! :eek:

Over drinking, which normally happens at the end of the night, in a disco, is one of the biggest causes of violence, and other anti social acts.

so there is a massive link there. have you do not been reading the papers this past few years, re what the police, the experts and the government are saying.?

You do not see fights...say in mass at sunday morning, or in the fruit & veg section of Tesco do ya?????!!!????

Environments, and not just with violence, have a massive influence.

Just case you have not experienced any violence yet..what age are you, under 25, ..you got a lot of living to do, and someday something could happen you (I hope it never does) but you could be in wrong place worng time...it happens man. wake up!!!!

Colm_OReilly

Sorry Gerry, over simplified it there.

I get that when people have too much drink and not enough sex they tend to get pretty violent, as per this article by SBG VP Luis Guttierez

Training to Fight / The Myth of Self Defense

By Luis Gutierrez

The debate about training for the street and training for sport never seems to end. I decided to make an individual link to handle this question since it so commonly arises and to prevent any misunderstandings about my intentions when it comes to ODMA, it's active philosophy or curriculum. The following is my opinion and simply that. Please feel free to contact me if you have anything to add but I hope my point has been made clear by the time you finish reading this page. I don't see what all the fuss is about but here goes…

My definition of what is combative sport and what is fighting is as follows: If both parties agree to fight under specific rules and regulations within a specific time frame, then it's a combative sport. If any one party does not wish to participate and / or is forced to at any given time or place, then it's a fight. The primary difference is what is being fought for and the reason why. One is a job or a sport for money, honor, or prestige, and the other is sheer survival for life, well being and / or liberty. One entails specific rules of engagement; the other's only rule is no rules.

How this influences me and my role running ODMA is as follows: I train for many reasons. Self-defense is not one of them but simply a by product of them all. I believe that one on one hand to hand "fights" of honor only occur in the ring. I am not concerned with what worked in Feudal Japan nor what was honor once upon a time in a more "innocent" America. In my life, I have yet to ever see, read of, or hear of someone being attacked or robbed honorably. (Granted, I have seen a great deal of theft in boxing.) I am 34 years old with a loving family, rent, bills, debts and every working American's dreams to succeed. Responsibility, more so than any martial art could ever dream of, has readily allowed me to walk away from challenges to my ego. Now, do you actually think for a moment that a threat (not a challenge) to me or my loved ones would have anything to do whether or not I trained martial arts?! The will to action at that moment would have nothing to do with any confidence or techniques acquired through the martial arts. None! If I were alone and attacked I would rely on my track and field ability. If I'm with loved ones… the pain tolerance, endurance, power and ferocity given by God at that moment is a force of nature and has nothing to do with civilization's fighting arts. My training? Against being outnumbered or dealing with a weapon? No style will save you, only your wits. It has much more to do with your psychology and your will to survive and protect life than any manufactured technique or style designed supposedly to end it.

The myth of street fighting: They seldom ever occur on a street. Try instead, bars, clubs and places serving alcohol and selling a whole lot of mood and attitude. These ego-based displays of physical prowess usually occur around locations where single people go in numbers to socialize. Obviously mix sex and drugs together with a large number of single people and those not getting any of the first and too much of the second will be very frustrated. When you visit an establishment where the ultimate goal of most intoxicated patrons by midnight is to fight or fornicate, your chances of feeling the fight or flight response, a boot or bottle to the head, and even getting arrested is a good one. I practically lived and worked in clubs from age 17 through 28. Avoid them and you avoid 99% of the so called street fights.

The reality of assaults: Real fights are actually assaults. They can and do occur everywhere and at any time. In fact, unlike the scenarios above, statistically most assaults occur near or at your home. There are no stances, deflections, blocks or parries against strikes that come in the form of multiple led projectiles. Knife fights are called assassinations in the real world. The only knife ever involved is the one "suddenly" inside you. Movies would have it that every criminal places a gun at your stomach before making a long drawn out sales pitch or presents and twirls a knife in front of you before lunging in like an Olympic fencer. This is not the case at all. Criminals are scared too and seldom get close until they know you are secured, this at times means shot or dead. The knife is felt and not seen as it often comes from a blind side or from someone other than you are dealing with. Muggers and rapists use stun guns and pepper sprays as well as the ladies they attack. Assaults are predatory by nature and if they do not involve weapons, involve larger numbers, or at the least a much larger or stronger assailant than victim. Against these odds once they occur, no hand to hand martial art stands much of a chance and survival is more in the realm of psychological tactics, luck, and your ability gage the best moment to escape.

The grappling arts imply: "most fights end up on the ground…take them there"
The striking arts imply: "all fights start standing up…keep them there"
The mixed martial arts imply: "any fight can go anywhere…be ready and able to go everywhere" Coast to Coast Crime Statistics state: 10 out of 10 assaults involve a weapon(s), being outnumbered, being physically outclassed or any combination of the above.

Street technique versus Sport Techniques or "Just add dirt" I can hear it now from all the street fighters... "But Luis, what about eye gauges, hair pulling, biting, ripping, pinching, scrotum striking, yanking and smashing, scratching, spitting, foaming at the mouth, growling, breaking bottles, wearing boots, colon control and crapping at will?" Well, what about all that? If you can't even hit a guy with a 16oz. glove how the hell are you going to eye jab him? If you can't keep a guy from putting you on the ground and proceeding to do his best rendition of River Dance on your cranium, how the hell are you going to just kick him in the balls or bite him? And if you indeed are getting punched, kicked, and out grappled by a superior martial artist and you get the bright idea to bite him, what's to stop him then from doing the same if not worse to you…and from a much better vantage point to boot? (Pun intended.) Bottom line…if you build a foundation on movement (timing and awareness in motion) and the attributes necessary to deliver and apply efficient strikes, controls and finishes, you just need to add the foul or dirty tactics. It doesn't work the other way around.

"Be like water…then just add dirt."

My point is that I head out quite a bit, to clubs where people get langered, and I never see fights. Why am I there? The beautiful babies. In fact once after a similiar thread I started looking to see how many arguments I could witness one night in a club. I quickly got bored and went in search of something that would deliver greater happiness/benefit to me.

Since I've had four years of college drinking under my belt and it's generally people around my age (23) that frequent these clubs surely I should be in the height of fight season. If I'm wrong about the average age of people who are most likely to get into barroom brawls fill me in.

And you're dead right, I do have a lot of living to do. There's actually no way I can just type that and not sound sarcastic or condescending but trust me, that's not my intention.

Hopefully that will clear up my standpoint on this issue.

Colm

pma-ire

John,

I agree with your point about people putting themselves in the situation that causes them harm most of the time!

But one thing you have to factor in here is what people are looking for when they are attacking someone!

There can be a few reasons a person feels the need to attack another.

Situation 1. To rob them of goods.

Situation 2. They have become p!ssed off with this person for whatever reason and want blood!! (or to at least give them a slap)

Situation 3. R.A.O.V. Random Acts Of Violence

In all cases when the attacker is of sound mind, the attackee ( ) is evaluated to see if they "could have him". Weather we know it or not most of us in the martial arts have an air about us that shows that we are aware of our surroundings and stay away from places that endanger our well being.

Attackers seek out the easy target and tend to avoid us!

When alcohol or drugs come into play then attackers may not go through this thought process! This is when skinny runts attack guys built like bricksh!t houses over two foot taller than them (and sometimes get the hop on the person).

When I was a hotel porter and night manager I got attacked every weekend!! I could script out every situation...

Act 1: I would come into contact with the agressor due to them acting the maggot in some way in the hotel, and as my job was to insure that the security and safety of the guests was upheld. We were really just well paid security guards.

Act 2: Due to the fact that I would have to ask this person to stop what they were doing and often having loads of fun doing. We were put right into Situation 2.

Act 3: A lash of abuse! Which followed the same line, "you fat, short, baldy, four-eyed (Whatever)". This is where the person that ain't thinking to well has just had the idea that they will make a move to attack.

I've had people try to jump over the counter to me? Run around the back of the reception and get in the back door or just try and come at me all hands, legs and theeth going!!

Whats my point?? We can end up in situations of violence due to the job we do, the company we keep and the places we frequent. Sometimes though people just end up in places that they had not intended, and this is the reason for those people wanting to train for a low chance SD situation.

Other people want to train for comps, others for fitness and others just for something to do??

It's all an individual choice!

Millionaire

good article, read that one before on the SBG web site.

Yeah hes right about the club scene. That what i refer too also.

Still if you got someone on you, coked out of their brian, and boozed into a violent frenzy, the old job cross may just bounce off him. happened me once, I got a reasonable right cross, just bounced off the thug. thats then the other tricks come in!

dudara

If you find yourself regularly getting into scrapes, then the problem is you. Serious aggressive confrontations generally don't happen to regular people. They generally happen to people who are looking for them.

Undoubtedly such situations can be enhanced by alcohol, but it's not the major reason. Any latent belligerence in a person can be bought out by alcohol, but it has to be there to start with

Michael O Leary

loz wrote:

Without wanted to start a "TMA useful as self defence ?" discussion - I think that You as instructors still have to be careful ( and have an obligation to ! ) not give a false sence of security to people that think they have learnt some actually useful techniques !

Hi Loz

I 100% agree with you however there is a big difference between having a false sense of security and feeling totally vunerable which is what I refered to. I along with other contributers on this forum would always to seek the middle ground.

Regards,

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

loz

dudara wrote:

If you find yourself regularly getting into scrapes, then the problem is you. Serious aggressive confrontations generally don't happen to regular people. They generally happen to people who are looking for them.

I tend to find this also, plus dont' most normal minded people stay away from places with a reputation for brawls. ? - I certainly do !

Undoubtedly such situations can be enhanced by alcohol, but it's not the major reason. Any latent belligerence in a person can be bought out by alcohol, but it has to be there to start with

Partially agree - Alchohol is a funny thing and too much can make you the best of people behave very differently than normal ! friends and even family !


Ages were mentioned before - i'm 34 in three weeks times - been out a hell of a lot in my youth and still try to get out ( babysitter dependant now ) and i don't tend to see much, nor get into any ( touch wood ) trouble in town - or my locality - ( clonsilla ).

I dont think age is anything to do with it - its where you go - who you mix with - and how you present yourself that tends to matter.......

columok

Weather we know it or not most of us in the martial arts have an air about us that shows that we are aware of our surroundings and stay away from places that endanger our well being.

I disagree Paul. I've been in one violent situation before (years ago back in my TMA days) and while I didnt provoke the attack my attitude of MA superiority was probably a contributory factor. I feel that I probably had something to prove and in a funny way brought the attack on myself in some ways.

Also I've known lots of heads up their own arses martial artists who float around on such a carpet of tough smugness that they more likely invite attacks rather than avoid them.

MaxBax

tough smugness that they more likely invite attacks rather than avoid them.

i do this a bit. but my tkd friend does it much more. it definietly causes fights.
Recently, some dude, after bugging me a bit, walked up to me, and kinda whispered to me that he could "kill me if he wanted". Dunno if he was a MA guy, but instead of walking off and going about my business I had a go. Got a black eye.

ninjawitatitude

Hey John,
Very good topic. I would have to say that it goes beyond personal choice sometimes. (The cop can't choose where to arrest someone.) Many people are forced to journey through rough areas at bad times. (Service industry workers who finish in the early hours of the weekend for example) I personally have confronted, knives, glasses and syringes on what many would refer to as a 'soft door'.
So I would say learn everything you can no matter how underhanded. Just remember that these should be a last resort and train with that in mind at all times. As Stan Lee said "With great power, comes great responsibilty". The vast majority of people will never have to resort to these techniques but I do think it would be better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. Just make sure the're not a nutter when you teach them.:D

Millionaire

I think it has got too alot to do with the type of places, and indeed the country you may be in.

for example, when I was at university in Altantic Canada (east coast) there was a nightclub mainly students went too, usually it was ok, then there was a club that all the "Rednecks" would come to on a saturday night, in their pickup trucks, and some of the rednecks idea of a saturday night, was to beat someone up. (usually someone smaller). I had real long hair at the time and sometimes when I would go in their, they d call me a fag for having long hair and try to kick my butt. 3 or 4 on 1 (me!!) usually. I was doing MA at the time, and I guess this is when I started employing "dirty tricks" , I learned them myself, made them up, and HAD NO CHOICE sometimes to use them to stop the getting gang stomped on the way home. see once I got a real bad gang beating, got my head smashed into a kerb while 5 or 6 rednecks booted my head like a football, and I spent time in hospital , and swore would no longer be a victim again.

Israel too, I noticed there is an overdose of Testosterone in the typical Israeli male (maybe sometime to do with suicide bombers always having a go) , anyway the Israelis would be fairly fast at starting a row too (and I am not refering to the mass attack I got in ), just in general I noticed this.

Hang about Joys nightclub in baggot street and in there you get passing through some 40 ish hardmen types, happy to try and kick some dudes butt too. and some fancy suited crim types trying to be all respectable too.

Used to hit years back the Wicked Wolf (for example) in Blackrock and never any trouble in there , mostly nice people having a good time.

some places certain types of thug may frequent (usually in my experience something to do with them being buddies of the bouncer) ... but if a decent law respecting person like me, wants to go there too, I wil lnot let the fact there is thugs there stop me. Foolhard...Yes! but what the hell, its great to have freedom of choice!!

judomick

i work a door and bartend too, i come across agressive customers about 4 to 5 times a week workin a door it can happen 5 or 6 times a night, im comfortable in my own abilities so i feel i have nothing to prove so these confrontations rarely go beyond verbal "fights" ,

why? if some guy says hes goin to kick my ass i agree doesnt bother me i dont want to fight some guy just for the sake of proving him wrong, whereas people whom are not confident in their abilities might feel the need to prove themselves regardless of them working or just on a night out, people who dont know humility are usually the ones involved in fights, and this trait is common in closed minded personalities in my opinion and experience

i also think that the pattern they follow (regular fights) will usually lead to a turning point i.e a bad beating which will ultimately open there minds or give them a little humility which in turn will force them to follow less agressive courses

pma-ire

columok wrote:

I disagree Paul. I've been in one violent situation before (years ago back in my TMA days) and while I didnt provoke the attack my attitude of MA superiority was probably a contributory factor. I feel that I probably had something to prove and in a funny way brought the attack on myself in some ways.

Also I've known lots of heads up their own arses martial artists who float around on such a carpet of tough smugness that they more likely invite attacks rather than avoid them.

Smugness is not what I was talking about! (though there are plenty of those guys around)

We have touched on it before on the doorman thread, confidence.

It's not to be confused with "I'm deadly and I could kill your ass, so lets get it on!".

It's about not needing to be envolved in such things while also being aware of your suroundings and seeing the situation building up so you get out of the way. As I said, people size you up before they try to attack you. A lot of them will avoid people that don't give off the victim traits of lack of eye contact, avoidance and distracted.

Millionaire

I get the feeling on here, that because i honestly said, yes I got in a few situations the past few years, and had to defend myself... people here think I start fights or cause trouble or something.

just for the record. nothing could be further from the truth.

If anyone met me, I know John did once, he gave me an exellent class and demo of this skills which was great. I am a real easy going happy type, totally non confrontational...

Its just for some strange reason, thugs seem to have a go at me this past few years!!

maybe cause I be out laughing and having the craic and a good time with friends, its catches peoples attention...the wrong attention etc

Dragan

Millionaire wrote:

maybe cause I be out laughing and having the craic and a good time with friends, its catches peoples attention...the wrong attention etc

Maybe your loud????

Or like on guy who drinks in the Lep in on a regular basis you don't wear a t-shirt that says Cage Fighter on it do you??? Because that would be silly!!

Millionaire

yes I am loud( so Ive been told) ...actually I am a wee bit hard of hearing, so that must be a factor. I do not do it on purpose, I just cannot hear and get loud!!!

dont wear MA t shirts out, they make my black silk shirt open to my belly and gold chains look real stupid!!!! LOL!!!!

john kavanagh

interesting responses there guys!

the question came into my mind when i was thinking of a seminar i did with Geoff T and Peter C in the UK on self defence. i remembered Geoff asking has anyone any questions and this one guy went into a 15min monologue about this local bar he wanted to drink in but everytime he went there he got into trouble, he described some of the fights/situations etc etc and asked Geoff for his advice on dealing with these guys.

Geoff just said 'it sounds like a sh1t hole, why would you want to go there?'. the guy was stunned into silence, just sat there like he'd never actually thought of that as a solution. was probably expecting something like 'make sure to keep your back against the wall, set up your fence, hit this guy in the nuts, gouge this guys eyes, and palm heel the other guy!!! etc etc.

they say the biggest cause of violence is alcohol - i would say its ego....plus a stimulant like alcohol. why? well look at the case above (which is common) that guys ego just wouldn't let him say 'hmmm i dont think i'll go to that place' because the 'black dog' would say 'why not, are you a pussy?'. how to keep that ego in check is another thread.

so this is where the b&d from above came about. what is it about your personality/ego that would continually put yourself through this? and maybe there's a healthier outlet for that side of you.

yes i'm well aware of the people who have to face this type of aggression on a day-2-day basis such as cops, doormen, night porters etc and we could talk about what is the best way to train for such situations....but thats a different topic.

this thread is really about the vast majority of people who through reflecting on b, c, and d above would, i think, do a hell of a lot more for effective self defence/self preservation than concentrating on 'a'

vasch_ro

ninjawitatitude wrote:

Hey John,
(The cop can't choose where to arrest someone.)

There have been times when I have thought to myself discretion is the better part of valour, I 'll just get a warrant a kick the door in at 6am and arrest them another time !

So there is some choice, as a member of the our civil guardians of the peace I would always make a choice about the type of places I would frequent, it is imperative that I avoid trouble at all costs, and if I am in a pub/club and I get that on edge vibe I will leave, although one night while I was student garda, a gang of us were in copper face jacks (where else ), I was waiting outside for my friends when this drunk fella , fell out the door onto the road and promptly fell over my leg, he immediately leapt up took a semi queensbury rules type stance and said he was going to ffin kill me for trippin him up, all I kept thinking was ****e this wally is going to beat me up and I'm going to lose my job !!!
Luckily his girlfriend talked sense into him and dragged him away, much to my relief !

I do agree with John, I think a little awareness goes a long away, and remember with eye gouges etc , fish hooks , you must be seen to use reasonable force to counter any force used against you , there is CCTV every where in the city and in every town.
Awareness and a little reflection on where you hang out, spend your time and maybe even your own attitude, (in colum o keefes I am superior martial artist type sense), these are all invaluable tools and besides even if I wanted to kneee some one in the nuts, thumb strike them to the etc I couldn't because i would end up in the district or circuit court !

john kavanagh

Millionaire wrote:

dont wear MA t shirts out, they make my black silk shirt open to my belly and gold chains look real stupid!!!! LOL!!!!

LOL!:D

Dragan

john kavanagh wrote:

what is it about your personality/ego that would continually put yourself through this? and maybe there's a healthier outlet for that side of you.

To be honest John , when i went to Limerick first it was a strange release for me. Like to that point had been very sheltered and controlled, and i suddenly found myself in a world that was not being censored in anyway.

Before that i had never really been out on the piss, had no real experience of the club scene and all that. Like i said, a very sheltered life, so when i went to Limerick i didn't really cop that the guys i was hanging out with were the wrong kinda guys, and i didn't see that i desperately needed to prove myself in all the wrong ways.

I think it was because i had never been in a fight and fighting just seemed the norm to these guys. So we would go out, get wasted and fight.

How stupid can you be????? Like i said, a good guy turned things around for me, and i owe him a lot. He pretty much just pointed out to me then what you are talking about today.

I'm not saying it likes this forever one, but i really needed to see if i could survive in this type of world that i had never experienced before.

Fortunately i have grown up a lot in the years since then and now.

ninjawitatitude

Hello all,
While we're on the subject, just how much will you turn the other cheek? Walking out of a ****hole pub is one thing but will you let the scum excert their will over you in your own estate/road/house/flat?

Just a thought. Not aimed at anyone.

john kavanagh

i can certainly say having met with and trained with Millionaire that he's a cool dude in person and enjoys training hard! i've never been out on the beer so dont know what your like in that scenario but i'm guessing something the same.

however looking at this post and with out meaning to be picky...

Millionaire wrote:

for example, when I was at university in Altantic Canada (east coast) there was a nightclub mainly students went too, usually it was ok, then there was a club that all the "Rednecks" would come to on a saturday night, in their pickup trucks, and some of the rednecks idea of a saturday night, was to beat someone up..

why not just stick to the one the students went to?

Millionaire wrote:

Israel too, I noticed there is an overdose of Testosterone in the typical Israeli male (maybe sometime to do with suicide bombers always having a go) , anyway the Israelis would be fairly fast at starting a row too (and I am not refering to the mass attack I got in ), just in general I noticed this.

yes i remember you telling me about this....which made me think 'why the hell would he go out on the beer on his own in a place like this, especially with him being into self defence'

Millionaire wrote:

Hang about Joys nightclub in baggot street and in there you get passing through some 40 ish hardmen types, happy to try and kick some dudes butt too. and some fancy suited crim types trying to be all respectable too.

then why would you want to hang out at Joys???

Millionaire wrote:

Used to hit years back the Wicked Wolf (for example) in Blackrock and never any trouble in there , mostly nice people having a good time.

then that would be my regular!!

Millionaire wrote:

some places certain types of thug may frequent (usually in my experience something to do with them being buddies of the bouncer) ... but if a decent law respecting person like me, wants to go there too, I wil lnot let the fact there is thugs there stop me. Foolhard...Yes! but what the hell, its great to have freedom of choice!!

well like you say its your choice...but it certainly is foolhardy!! there is so many decent places you can go to i just cant see ANY reason to go somewhere 'certain types of thug may frequent'. personally i find it incredible that someone so into self defence would do that?

Arnagan

so my question is this, if you found yourself repeatedly getting into 'serious' situations would you

a. go further down the 'eyes, throat, balls' road and learn how to hurt people as efficiently as possible
b. stop and think maybe i need to think about where i hang out?
c. stop and think maybe i need to work on my awareness?
d. stop and think what is it about my personality that continually attracts attention which leads me into 'serious' situations?

Now, now John, ya wouldn't wanna ask a loaded question, would u?

Millionaire

Ha ha ok to answer John!

Too old for the Student Discos!

Yes, have a habit of going wandering in strange places when in good form. not to be recommended to others. this old dog hard to learn new tricks.

Joys ha ha good old joys! let me put it this way, if you have no luck in Lillies, Joys is the last chance dance!!! Your time will come for Joys! LOL!!

Anyway I have given up the night club scene, and it is a much much better choice for peace of mind living. and it took me many many years to learn that! I read me deepak chopra books now.. (anyway nothing else to do in this rural NE Thai villiage...except have spirited debates on the boards!!!!)

fianna.5u.com

All I wear, ever is MMA t shirts. Never get started on, well not in about 7 years (touch wood!!). The last time I did I got "blind sided" in the Vatican (haha) but using my ninja senses I rode the punch and all was well. I turned and look at the guy who just walked off. A few years prior to that I got punched and just let it go, it wasnt like if I did anything the punch would go away. I will go very far to turn the other cheek.

The other thing is, as soon as you htink that beef might go down, go over to a bouncer, tell them some guy is acting the bollox and harrassing the ladies over there, you probably wont finish that sentence before the bouncer will be at work.

Peace

How many more conversations are we gonna have about this stuff?

MaxBax

We will continue to converse about this until everyone admits they get in fights to impress the lady folk and the men folk and therefore increase their status within a particular social group and therefore increase their "sexual fitness" and finally, to reproduce more so they will have more descendants and therefore maintain their genetic line and "LIVE FOREVER". The gracies did it. why can't we?

THEREFORE.

Colm_OReilly

How many more conversations are we gonna have about this stuff?

They will never end. It's kind of like asking when are you going to have done enough wind sprints/cardio exercises/lifted weights/worked your sub/worked your takedowns/worked your anti clinch/worked your stand up/worked all three integrated ranges. It will never end.

Just chill, go with the flow and (final part of this sentence in PM)

Colm

Puck

d, b, c and a, in that order. If by the time I've gotten down to seriously considering 'a' as a matter of survival though I'd probably just move to a nicer place.

pma-ire

How many more conversations are we gonna have about this stuff?

Colm_OReilly wrote:

They will never end.

Not as long as they are sh!tting in our shoes and we are p!ssing in their Bovril!!

Colm_OReilly

pma-ire wrote:

Not as long as they are sh!tting in our shoes and we are p!ssing in their Bovril!!

MMA Rules!

Millionaire

Cannot we not start a row again, about those KM weekend courses, that make the average joe citizen, and dangerous lethal special forces killer in 24 hours!!!!

Colm, if I give you 495 in 3 easy payments on my visa card, please please please can you make me a blue belt in BJJ... !!!!!!! :- 0

Sensei1985

As a female self defence instructor I have to say it was very intresting to read everyones point of veiw on Self Defence.

personally i would have to agree with both michael and johns first posts as these would be my opinion too,

I do feel in order for self-defence to be effective it can be used before somone finds themselves in a potentianally dangerous situtation by making themselves confident and been aware and listening to their scenes.

I would be very intrested to know if a knife was held to anyone of your throat's what would your reaction be and do you think you would be able to over come the fright and actually use your self-defence???

I have thought may female students how to defence themselves in many ways and i myself have studied it for years but I can honestly say that i have never found myself in a very dangerous situation where I have to use my self defence to know weather i would freeze or not

be very intresting to know what everyone has to say.


regards

Sensei1985

Killme00

1066 day bump...that must be a record

yomchi

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