Getting a M-16/AR15

TomBeckett

Well All
Just wondered has anyone here got an M-16 or what would the chances
of getting one be (semi-auto obviously) as i know full-auto is not allowed:cool:
after all its mearly a semi auto .223:D

Rovi

Check out this thread-
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=260271

Not an M-16/AR-15, but similar.

So, at least one semi-auto fullbore rifle has been licenced here recently.
I'd be of the opinion that you'd need a VERY accommodating Superintendent though.

As you say, the M-16 is right out, but the semi-auto version is a possibility.
Try for one that doesn't have the terms 'AR' or 'Armalite' in the name.

.

civdef

Colt Match Target, for example.

Oberland Arms in German also make several versions.

TomBeckett

AAHHH Drulll:D
Yeah Colt make them aswell it would prob sound better than ARMALITE:rolleyes:
only thing the Colts have a tendency to jamm there a bit lighter aswell i have fired them in the states because there lighter they kick like bejesus!!
Ill see what happens anyway fingures crossed:D

Sparks

Well, if the name is the problem...
http://www.olyarms.com/


Seriously though, just remember - all it will take will be one irresponsible yahoo to have an accident with an SLR and they'll be gone (and probably a rake of others) in short order. And personally, I'd prefer to see them available than not!

Clare gunner

Hi Mr Ar15 specialist here:D
Forget anything by "Ollie Arms" being shipped to good old Ireland.They are
really Anally retentitive about shipping anything outside CONUS,and dont have a good rap that they used to in the USA.Their PR is leaving alot to be desired these days,or so I am told.
Now your trouble is here anything that looks remotely like the dreaded "Armalite" will more than likely fall under the "Idonlikdelookodat" judgement of Superintendants everywhere.
You have the following options;
1]Buy a lower with straight pull bolt action upper

2]Buy a 22Lr upper and lower and apply later for a 223 upper.

3]Aquire a 22lr version here.There are some here but they can be really stupid money due to their rarity.Do NOT buy anything by Armi Jager they are and were POS,plus the parts are very hard to get.Nor will a full calibre upper fit on one at a later stage.

4] if you feel REALLY brave and fancy a DIY project plus related hassle of importing ,and liscensing one.You can buy an AR15 "kit"in the USA[All the bits minus the lower reciver].You can buy an 80% finished lower reciver in the US as well.ATF does not classify this as a firearm and it is freely exportable.You buy a book on it and set to work to build your own AR15,easy enough,but finishing the 80%out into a workable reciver is the real FUN bit.It is a question of drilling &tapping some holes mostly,but getting them spot on is the tricky bit.

5] Only other advice I can offer is;keep the looks civillian[until you import it].
Dont bring it in bristling with carry handles,foregrips,big capacity mags,etc.
You can trick it out later to look like whatever.
Also try to keep away from names like Armalite,Bushmaster,Colt[those are actually rated in that order as the best of the Ar15/M16 makers] on your application.

6]Maybe try for somthing abit more civillian like the Ruger mini14.
[Some rate it as a more superior gun to the AR15 anyway and alot cheaper]
I have heard mumbles that such a rifle would be looked on abit more favourably than the evil AR15.Dunno if it is true or not but worth a try.
Good luck with your quest,as to get one of these type of guns into Ireland is one.Been trying for the last fifteen years.:rolleyes:

coyote6

What about a Ruger Mini-14? They're pretty plain looking, less likely to get what the Gunner calls the"Idonlikdalookodat" treatment.

coyote6

Also check out Rock River Arms. Very nice Ar's. They've developed a very good rep over here. Dunno if they ship to the republic though.

Clare gunner

Coyote,
it is a possibility,like I said.however I blive the Northern Irish police force the old RUC used to use them in the Eighties as well,in the GB configuration.So they might get the "idonlikedelokodat"ruling as well.Still worth a try.

BTW what is a mini14 in stainless going for in the US these days??

Double Barrel

Clare Gunner
A pre ban blued.....RRR $ 700 - 800 plus new
A SS mini 14 .......$550 - 650 new

Or one can go down this path....Ruger Mini-30 Ranch Rifle by Accuracy Systems, package #15, .750x20"bbl, guaranteed < 1MOA, 1:10 twist, .311 bore, 3pt bedding, satin finish, Ram Line Camo, 2.5lb trig, enhanced trig group, includes factory rings. Test fired only, optics additional. $1850.00



RRR,... AR 15 comparison: http://www.ar15.com/content/swat/200203-AR-15_vs_Mini-14.pdf

DB

Clare gunner

Thanks DB
Think I'll stick ,if I ever get one with a plain jane SS with scope and mags,and original Ruger GB folder stock.
Pity Ruger never got the .243 mini 14 going.That would have been a seller.

Babble

Here are a few AR-15 links to check out

http://www.ar15.com/
http://groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite

The name AR-15 traditional belongs to the manufacture Colt (M4 is currently the subject of a bushmaster lawsuit) So only the rifles made by Colt are AR-15's

My Armalite is registered as a LE M15 A4. Which basically means its a Law Enforcement AR-15 M4

The Ar-15 platform is definitely the most versatile. You can get a huge number of different caliber uppers all the way up to .50 Beowulf


But there are alternates that might not have the same name stigma
Ar-180 +b, AR-10, M1, M14, Mini 14, Sigarms PE90, Robinson arms XCR, VZ 58 (looks like a AK47 externally), H&K SL8 (the grey ones are really easy to dye black at home)

You could also look at Pistol caliber carbines like the Beretta Storm (only made in semi auto, has a horrible trigger) and H&K USC

But at the end of the day the AR-15 is probably the front runner.

You can even get it with pink furniture

Good luck

coyote6

The Steyr AUG has always been one of my favorites too.

coyote6

I'll try to attach a pic of the AUG.

civdef

Given the AUG is the issue rifle to the Irish Army, I think it's safe to say a lot of people here will have seen them before...

Clare gunner

[

The name AR-15 traditional belongs to the manufacture Colt (M4 is currently the subject of a bushmaster lawsuit) So only the rifles made by Colt are AR-15's

Not any more they aint.Bushmaster won the lawsuit,under the fact that M4 is a generic term not applied only to Colt.Check out www.bushmaster.com website for the full details.
Also AR15 stood for Armalite Rifle model 15.Which was Eugene Stoners company that invented the AR orginally,and then sold the patent rights to Colt inc the name.



The Ar-15 platform is definitely the most versatile. You can get a huge number of different caliber uppers all the way up to .50 Beowulf

But there are alternates that might not have the same name stigma
Ar-180 +b, AR-10, M1, M14, Mini 14, Sigarms PE90, Robinson arms XCR, VZ 58 (looks like a AK47 externally), H&K SL8 (the grey ones are really easy to dye black at home)

Big trouble is they are going to ask you for pics or technical details of the weapon,so it can be decided if it fits in the "idonlikdelookodat" category.

The AR180 will proably fall as it was used by the RA where it was known as "the Widow maker"
Ar10 due to the AR M1 nochance used by RA ditto M14,maybe in the M1a config ,mini 14 good possibility,[but has been used by the RUC and the INLA.] Robinson arms,good chance or better their M96 expeditionary model[the Stoner lookalike]
HK SL8 one known registerd one here,owner posts here on the board.

You could also look at Pistol caliber carbines like the Beretta Storm (only made in semi auto, has a horrible trigger) and H&K USC

Be better off then going for a HK mp model or an Uzi carbine failing that A Cobray mac carbine type weapon.

You are right about it's versatility though.Everything from a 22 pistol up to a single shot 50 cal.Pity our gaurdians of everything here are so anally retentive about it.:rolleyes:

Babble

There is also the Sig in Blue or Red furniture.


http://www.nfa.ca/firearms/swiss-arms-blue-star.html
This is what the smurfs use

The Armalite of today is not the original company that Stoner designed for. They sold the "15" design to colt who improved it and sold it back to them to use. (or something like that)

Oh I got to play around with the CQB version of the Sig over here, its fabulous

coyote6

Didn't know the AUG was Irish issue. Good choice. I learn somethin' new every day!:)

Babble

coyote6 wrote:

Didn't know the AUG was Irish issue. Good choice. I learn somethin' new every day!:)

I think they have been an issue firearm since the early 90's?

In Canada they are named on the prohibited list :mad:
Of course if you possesed it prior to its banning you could keep it, so thats how one of my fellow club members got to keep his.

Rovi

coyote6 wrote:

Didn't know the AUG was Irish issue. Good choice. I learn somethin' new every day!:)

Check out this thread over on www.militaryphotos.net. Lots of Irish AUGs and other goodies.
The thread was started 2 1/2 years ago, so some of the picture links have gone bad, but there's still plenty there.

They even have a thread specifically dealing with the AUG-
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=56349


.

Clare gunner

Babble wrote:

There is also the Sig in Blue or Red furniture.


http://www.nfa.ca/firearms/swiss-arms-blue-star.html
This is what the smurfs use

The Armalite of today is not the original company that Stoner designed for. They sold the "15" design to colt who improved it and sold it back to them to use. (or something like that)

The patents on the rifles ran out,which were exclusively Colt's.Hence the mass of different companies that appered producing "AR15" rifles,where they had been supplying govt contract parts or repair parts,they simply put together their own rifles.
Not to mind Colt's lousey PR during the gun ban drives of the 80's and 90's,kind of put everyone off Colt as well.

Clare gunner

[

The Armalite of today is not the original company that Stoner designed for. They sold the "15" design to colt who improved it and sold it back to them to use. (or something like that)

The patents on the rifles ran out,which were exclusively Colt's.Hence the mass of different companies that appered producing "AR15" rifles,where they had been supplying govt contract parts or repair parts,they simply put together their own rifles.
Not to mind Colt's lousey PR during the gun ban drives of the 80's and 90's,kind of put everyone off Colt as well.

Morpheus

Do Steyr make rifles for shooting?

Is it possible to get a purely semi automatic version of the Steyr Aug and shoot with it in ireland?

Im in the RDF and we shoot with it quite often, most of the time on the range its used only in a single shot capacity, ive even used one that had a dodgy gas assembly and had to recock it for every shot Its a great rifle, fantastic to shoot, would love to have my own semi version. I live out near courtlough myself.

Vegeta

its more than likely perfectly legal but a lot of supers will probably laugh at you

Rew

Morph&#233 wrote: »

Do Steyr make rifles for shooting?

Is it possible to get a purely semi automatic version of the Steyr Aug and shoot with it in ireland?

There is a semi-auto AUG chambered for .223 with the flash hider left off. Fair play to you if you can get a licence for it though! As Vegeta said its unlikely you would get a licence for it.

Courtlough wont let you shoot a fullbore rifle on there range BTW.

Rovi

Morph&#233 wrote: »

Do Steyr make rifles for shooting?

They do indeed.
And they fall neatly into the 'not cheap' category too.-
http://www.steyr-mannlicher.com/fcb/index.php?id=64&L=1

Morph&#233 wrote: »

Is it possible to get a purely semi automatic version of the Steyr Aug and shoot with it in ireland?

According to Steyr's own site (http://www.steyr-mannlicher.com/index.php?id=654), the AUG models A1, A2, A3 are all select fire, but the 9mm version is semi-automatic with 'optional' fully-automatic. I don't know if that means that the rifle can be switched to full (select fire) or if it must be purchased as full-auto.

Oberland Arms do a semi-auto replica in .223 Rem (http://www.oberlandarms.biz/index.php?category=Waffen&id=ST_1&page=details), but as others have said, good luck persuading your Super to give you a licence.

.

rrpc

You must have a load of money to burn, as using an SA will definitely have you emptying mags, just beacuse they're full As far as jamming goes, it depends on the ammo you use, and having had a 22lr SA in my yoof, I gave it up because I felt that the occaisonal jam was a safety issue.

civdef

Right now you'd have a hard job to sell a need for a semi-automatic centrefire to the Superintendent as being necessary for target shooting (I'm pretty much figuring they haven't a hope for hunting).

The criteria that it will be assessed against is "why do you need a semi as opposed to a bolt-action?", indeed this sort of assessment will become enshrined in the Firearms Act when the proposed amendments go through.

If there were service rifle / falling plates competitions taking place, or the like, there probably would be a case for using them for target shooting.

Sparks

civdef wrote:

If there were service rifle / falling plates competitions taking place, or the like, there probably would be a case for using them for target shooting.

Catch-22, eh?

Morpheus

Ok, taking the fact that i know nought about standard bolt action rifles, i know only about military weapons used by the RDF, can you recommend a decent cheapish bolt action .223 or thereabouts beginner rifle for firing at targets up to 300m range? (is it metres or yards with civvie targets? its metres in the military) so that if i do go to a gun seller, im not lead up the garden path to purchase something over priced? im interested in getting into competition shooting, indeed i hope to go for marksman and shooting team in my unit, although based on last weekends shooting i couldnt have hit the side of a barn at 3 yards with a giuded missile. The weapon had been zeroed for someone else and due to time contraints the second firing detail (of which i was part) didnt get to zero the sights, my rifle was lower than it should be a 100 and 200 hitting the bank infront of the silhouette, and over the target at 300 when it should be spot on as AUGs are roughly zeroed to 300m, but it was way way way off, not just a bit.

civdef

TBH you'd probably be as well off buying a .22lr. It'll save you lots on the cost of the rifle and ammo, allowing for more practice. To work on your marksmansip, you don't necessarily need to fire at 300m, 100m will do just fine, and ranges are a lot easier to find.

This leads into an interesting side area, if semi-autos became available, how many of the people buying them would just be doing so for the Walter factor?

There is already an element of this in the pistol area - I'm thinking of stuff like fellas carrying a revolver on their hip when shooting targets with a rifle on a range - do they expect the targets to start shooting back, or to have to deliver a coup de gras?

rrpc

Morph&#233 wrote: »

Ok, taking the fact that i know nought about standard bolt action rifles, i know only about military weapons used by the RDF, can you recommend a decent cheapish bolt action .223 or thereabouts beginner rifle for firing at targets up to 300m range? (is it metres or yards with civvie targets? its metres in the military) so that if i do go to a gun seller, im not lead up the garden path to purchase something over priced? im interested in getting into competition shooting, indeed i hope to go for marksman and shooting team in my unit

AFAIK the competition shooting in military circles at 300m is done using a .308 target rifle exactly the same as the Olympic three positional discipline except over a greater distance and with a larger calibre..

rrpc

civdef wrote:

TBH you'd probably be as well off buying a .22lr. It'll save you lots on the cost of the rifle and ammo, allowing for more practice. To work on your marksmansip, you don't necessarily need to fire at 300m, 100m will do just fine, and ranges are a lot easier to find.

Well if it's the CISM he wants to get into, the .22lr target rifle would be a very closely related discipline

There is already an element of this in the pistol area - I'm thinking of stuff like fellas carrying a revolver on their hip when shooting targets with a rifle on a range - do they expect the targets to start shooting back, or to have to deliver a coup de gras?

Eh.. civdef, you just said 'blow of fat' You might have meant coup de grace, then again you might not considering some of the portly gentlemen I've seen wearing said firearms

civdef

Lol, em, yeah.

Sparks

rrpc wrote:

then again you might not considering some of the portly gentlemen I've seen wearing said firearms

There's a reason they call it "belly shooting"

Rovi

rrpc wrote:

Eh.. civdef, you just said 'blow of fat' You might have meant coup de grace, then again you might not considering some of the portly gentlemen I've seen wearing said firearms

Freudian Slip = when you say one thing but mean your mother.
:D:D

.

civdef

Morpheus, what sort of practice have you in mind?

If you want to practice rapid fire falling plates type work, you could look into a 22lr semi, perhaps with a low power red dot type scope.

If you're thinking serious target stuff, then the suggestions by RRPC are the ones to follow.

At the end of the day, getting any rifle and practicing with it will be of benefit, trigger time is trigger time.

Vegeta

Rovi wrote:

Freudian Slip = when you say one thing but mean your mother.
:D:D

.

lol :v:

Clare gunner

civdef wrote:

Right now you'd have a hard job to sell a need for a semi-automatic centrefire to the Superintendent as being necessary for target shooting (I'm pretty much figuring they haven't a hope for hunting).

The criteria that it will be assessed against is "why do you need a semi as opposed to a bolt-action?", indeed this sort of assessment will become enshrined in the Firearms Act when the proposed amendments go through.

If there were service rifle / falling plates competitions taking place, or the like, there probably would be a case for using them for target shooting.

You could argue the fact that you are left handed or disabled and that a semi auto fits your shooting [dis]ability better.As it is a major PITA to use a right hand bolt action being left handed and not many companies make left handed bolt actions.Or to custom a right bolt to left bolt will cost as much as a semi in the first place.
Should be no reason that a semi cant be used for hunting ,apart from the inbred snobbery of the plus twos & tweed brigade,who consider anything in technology more advanced from the 1910's as "dashed unsporting" ,and seem to be incharge of deer hunting policy here in Ireland,all you have to do is block a mag to three shots,if you go deer hunting.
And it would indeed be helpful if we had practical rifle or as Civ mentioned service rifle up and running.BUT there was already a precedent set here by one poster on this board getting one liscensed here.So an outright blank refusal would be very hard to justify as well.
Morphus
Oberland arms in Germany do a civillian Aug.It is a weird looking thing.No scope/carry handle,got a weaver rail instead.No flash hider,totally semi auto,the entire mechinasim is impossible to convert in any way to FA.And it has no fwd grip,but a very weird extra bit of plastic in front of the trigger gaurd,to make it a thumbhole stock.But it is somthing like 1,750 euros.:eek: You could always ask them of the possibility of making one into a straight pull bolt action by removing the gas system,and you would be using it like your one in the army with the dodgey gas system.[Somthing that can be done with most military semi auto rifles,especially in the UK.]

scout

left handed excuse chould been cought out easaly ,when you sign something

left eye dominant however is a different story,, if you can explain what that means to a super. and justify it

Clare gunner

Ah!But I was talking about us GENUINE,left handed,devils children.Who have to struggle around in a world that discriminates against us more artistic and innovative people.Equal rights for left handers!!!!:D

Vegeta

my girlfriend is left eye dominant which is a pain in the ass as my air rifle is right handed, so if I want to bring her plinking (once in a blue moon) it makes it that bit harder for her to have fun

macnas

I'm okay now.........

Umiq88

eye dominance doesnt make that much difference in rifle shooting just get her to close her left eye im left eye dominant as well but just close it for shotgun and rifle and the opposite for pistol shooting

Babble

Clare gunner wrote:

You could argue the fact that you are left handed or disabled and that a semi auto fits your shooting [dis]ability better.As it is a major PITA to use a right hand bolt action being left handed and not many companies make left handed bolt actions.

All you need is a copy of this book www.zombiesurvivalguide.com it clearly outlines why you need a semi auto/self loading rifle.

Clare gunner

Hmm that means I am in deep trouble down here.Going by the descriptions in the zombie survival guide,it means 90% of the town I am living in are zombies..:D .Too the superintendent pronto....well,if he is one as well.Guess I neednt bother then about paperwork and liscenses.:D

Babble

Hmm do you think this would pass the "idontlikethelookofdat" test?

Umiq88

are the guns always checking to see what they look like before the licence is issued i dont remember mine being checked unless they go into the dealers and take a look the gun was in a dealers in a different county to the where i was getting the licence

Clare gunner

Babble wrote:

Hmm do you think this would pass the "idontlikethelookofdat" test?
QUOTE]
If they could find the gun in there somwhere??:D

ASFIK they dont check it for modifications at all.You can modify it as you want,so long as it isnt FA or shorter than 24ins in a shotgun barrel.

woody

coyote6 wrote:

I'll try to attach a pic of the AUG.

I used it in the army by far the best compared to the other rifles we tested :

M16 A2
HK G27(I think) could be wrong
We even looked at the Famas a great weapon.....

If my memory serves me right there was a .22LR version of an AR-15 in circulation in the mid to late 80's

Clare gunner

woody wrote:

I used it in the army by far the best compared to the other rifles we tested :

M16 A2
HK G27(I think) could be wrong
We even looked at the Famas a great weapon.....

If my memory serves me right there was a .22LR version of an AR-15 in circulation in the mid to late 80's

Hmmm,I would rate the SIG 540 as proably top of the heap,or the Isreali Gallil.The Aug has the problem of being a bullpup and ASFIK you need a new bolt to change it to left hand use?Think you mean the HK93? that is the HK .223 calibre.
There was /is a 22 version of the AR15.But it fell along with the FAMAS and the AK copies under the "Idonlikedelookodat" Doj /Garda import rules.Along with the SPAS12 shotgun.:rolleyes: