Folding Kings

NickyOD

Level 1 in a $50 SnG. I should have fold after he reraised.

Thoughts?

***** Hand History for Game 3463032526 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $50 Buy-in + $5 Entry Fee Trny:19688720 Level:1 Blinds(10/15) - Monday, January 30, 01:25:35 EDT 2006
Table Table 67290 (Real Money)
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 3: cpoeschel ( $805 )
Seat 4: pele272 ( $1000 )
Seat 5: parkwestgm ( $795 )
Seat 6: Holdemup60 ( $270 )
Seat 7: SavorIt ( $595 )
Seat 9: swinuk ( $700 )
Seat 10: AIROTCIV ( $2235 )
Seat 1: NickyOD ( $1000 )
Seat 2: superflow357 ( $1190 )
Seat 8: connyvoo ( $1410 )
Trny:19688720 Level:1
Blinds(10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to NickyOD [ Ks Kd ]
superflow357 folds.
cpoeschel folds.
pele272 folds.
parkwestgm calls [15].
Holdemup60 folds.
SavorIt calls [15].
connyvoo raises [45].
swinuk folds.
AIROTCIV folds.
NickyOD raises [150].
parkwestgm folds.
SavorIt folds.
connyvoo raises [330].
NickyOD calls [210].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 2d, 7c, Js ]
NickyOD checks.
connyvoo is all-In [1035]
NickyOD folds.
connyvoo does not show cards.
connyvoo wins 1825 chips

Vikings

Tough one, I personally would have called. What is he afraid of on that flop that he wants you off the hand?

How did he win the hand that put him up to 1410 chips?

NickyOD

IncredibleBulk wrote:

Tough one, I personally would have called. What is he afraid of on that flop that he wants you off the hand?

How did he win the hand that put him up to 1410 chips?

He doesn't want me off the hand. He's pushing becuase he hopes I have KK/QQ and will call. It was a big mistake calling his reraise in the first place but I still went on to win te SnG

ianmc38

NickyOD wrote:

He doesn't want me off the hand. He's pushing becuase he hopes I have KK/QQ and will call. It was a big mistake calling his reraise in the first place but I still went on to win te SnG

Yeah, it looks like a push that he's hoping will get paid off.

Dave

How were you sure he didn't have Queens preflop?

Vikings

Or even AJ .. like you said its Level 1 and im assuming you have never played against him before. Are your reads that good?

denachoman

NickyOD wrote:

He doesn't want me off the hand. He's pushing becuase he hopes I have KK/QQ and will call. It was a big mistake calling his reraise in the first place but I still went on to win te SnG

Just out of curiousty Nicky - did you have a read on the player in question here or would you always lay down KK in this situation? I don't play STTs at this high a stake but what percentage of the time would you say you are up against AA here?

RMcG

Hmmm calling his raise is a nice wat to trap him. If the J high flop comes down its a perfect flop for you. My chips are calling so fast here, Im allin without any hesitation.

Its also a perfect flop for AA so why does he over bet the pot and go allin...he wants you off the pot so bad, thats why he's allin...if I have AA here I bet, but I want more of his chips, I dont want him to go away with KJ AJ or QQ....he wants you off the pot, it stinks of AJ...or QQ.......with AJ and QQ there is reason to be afraid of an A, a K or Q on the turn and thats why he is allin......definite call here for me.

But even further back in the hand I am rerasing his raise with KK, here I am allin every time....cant let him spike his Ace, make him pay.

There is a very very slim chance he has AA here and if he does pay him off .....it happens.....

Gholimoli

NickyOD wrote:

He doesn't want me off the hand. He's pushing becuase he hopes I have KK/QQ and will call. It was a big mistake calling his reraise in the first place but I still went on to win te SnG

how can you be sure with one reraise that he has AA?
to be honest i would have either reraised him preflop or called his bet on the flop.
i think if he had aces he would bet some what less on the flop and then push on the turn.
his bet on the flop looks like his scared of aces and his glad that they didnt show.
if his scared of aces that mean you have him beat.
he would have reraised you pre flop with AK and QQ as well so unless you are very certain of your read on him i dont see how you know he has AA just because he reraised you preflop.

RMcG

Plus his minimum reraise looks as if HE is searching for more info....with this raise I think he he asking you do you have the aces or Kings.

Tis possible that if you are allin after his minimum reraise he folds.....but sure anything is feckin possible i s'pose

fuzzbox

RMcG wrote:

Plus his minimum reraise looks as if HE is searching for more info....with this raise I think he he asking you do you have the aces or Kings.

I very rarely see a small 3-bet made by any player unless THEY have Aces or Kings. Its usually a statement, rather than a question.

NickyOD

RMcG wrote:

Plus his minimum reraise looks as if HE is searching for more info....with this raise I think he he asking you do you have the aces or Kings.

Tis possible that if you are allin after his minimum reraise he folds.....but sure anything is feckin possible i s'pose

What minimum raise?

Dub13

denachoman wrote:

what percentage of the time would you say you are up against AA here?

I think when you have pocket Kings you will be up against pocket Aces one time every 22,its a hard one as you can easily miss read your opponent and he could have AK,QQ, etc.

ntlbell

Good fold.

like you said, looks like he's put you on QQ/KK and crying out for you to call, as proved by the responses he would of got paid from most players.

WP GF GG WD VNH


There's one thing boards.ie forgot about you Nicky, "You can dodge bullets baby"


We have a new phil helmuth

Culchie

I would have called here as well. AJ or QQ's methinks.

If AA shrug and move on.

NickyOD

ntlbell wrote:

Good fold.

like you said, looks like he's put you on QQ/KK and crying out for you to call, as proved by the responses he would of got paid from most players.

WP GF GG WD VNH


There's one thing boards.ie forgot about you Nicky, "You can dodge bullets baby"


We have a new phil helmuth

Well I have no idea if he had them or not, but I am 80% sure he had them. It's possible he had queens but most players won't play Queens so aggressively at this level. If I was in his shoes with Queens I most likely would have folded tot he first reraise. Look at my position and the strength I've shown. Would anyone here play Queens this way? I'm going to be up against Aces here often enough for putting any more chips in the pot after his preflop reraise to be unprofitable. Also even considering he might have AJ is just ridiculous.

RMcG

U raised 150 he raised to 375....its basically a minimum raise......min+1/2 min....its a info raise....or a pathetic raise.......or its an action raise....or its a who the fcuk knows raise....

Its pointless really asking for advise on such a hand...becasue it depends on what type of player he his and we dont know...so the answers to the question are just matters of opinion. Its impossible to answer correctly.

Thats why I never really bother my arse discussing topics of what should I do here and what should I do there...youre a pro now do you honestly think anyone on Boards can advise you better than you know yourself...

Unless it was a 'look I can fold kings'...post.....lololol

Wouldnt mind if it was for 10 million sterling pounds...but for $50......jebus

And dont get all arsey guys Im just havin' a laugh okay

fuzzbox

Culchie wrote:

I would have called here as well. AJ or QQ's methinks.

If AA shrug and move on.

Believing he could have AJ is incredibly silly.

careca

All things considered I think its a call. There are a lot of things to take into consideration. THe fact thats its a $50 stt means he could have anything, and I would include AJ in that. you said yourself in your blog that you expect half the poker players you meet not to be able to stand up, cos they are that bad. why would you expect any different here ? it wouldnt surprise me if he put you on AQ or AK and when none arrived just went for it.

Course as RmG states, we will never know and I suppose you did go on to win the STT so your stance is justified.

I would still have called though.

Culchie

fuzzbox wrote:

Believing he could have AJ is incredibly silly.

Cheers.

Dub13

Its only Level 1 so unless you have notes on the player its at least a call.

fuzzbox

Culchie wrote:

Cheers.

Well it is.
You would be putting him on a hand that you could beat, just to make yourself feel better about calling.

QQ could be argued, but AJ is not likely given the preflop action.

fuzzbox

Dub13 wrote:

Its only Level 1 so unless you have notes on the player its at least a call.

If its at LEAST a call, then what is it at most?

Culchie

fuzzbox wrote:

Well it is.
You would be putting him on a hand that you could beat, just to make yourself feel better about calling.

QQ could be argued, but AJ is not likely given the preflop action.

No I wouldn't arguing on that basis at all.

Unforunately, I can't see his cards, and they are probably the only two hands that I think he has now that he doesn't want to see any more action, 80/20 in favour of QQ's, either way I'd call thinking KK is still ahead.

I seen a fellah put $4000 on the line last night calling with A8 on the final table of the $100K.

Dub13

fuzzbox wrote:

If its at LEAST a call, then what is it at most?

Slight typo seems as if Nicky calls he is all in.I don't like the check after the flop,thats a good flop for Kings....if you are up against Aces what can you do.Take the hit.

careca

fuzzbox wrote:

Well it is.
You would be putting him on a hand that you could beat, just to make yourself feel better about calling.

QQ could be argued, but AJ is not likely given the preflop action.

Have a read of Nickys blog. Look at the second hand history in his most recent post. It doesn't say how much the STT is for but I would presume its the same ($50). What hand would you put the other guy on after that preflop action ? If you guessed 94h, fair play to you.

ntlbell

fuzzbox wrote:

If its at LEAST a call, then what is it at most?

wrong side of the bed this morning fuzzy!

The only reason AJ is not worth considering is no one will come over the top of you here with AJ often enough to even consider it's AJ at $50 stt level.

That doesn't mean without a shadow of doubt it wasn't, there's head cases at all levels and this guy as we know absoloutley nothing about could easily be one of those head cases.

There's no reason to be insulting!

Culchie

careca wrote:

Have a read of Nickys blog. Look at the second hand history in his most recent post. It doesn't say how much the STT is for but I would presume its the same ($50). What hand would you put the other guy on after that preflop action ? If you guessed 94h, fair play to you.

Jebus, I am silly .... what with all the preflop action, 9h 4h ... obvious really.

fuzzbox

ntlbell wrote:

wrong side of the bed this morning fuzzy!

The only reason AJ is not worth considering is no one will come over the top of you here with AJ often enough to even consider it's AJ at $50 stt level.

That doesn't mean without a shadow of doubt it wasn't, there's head cases at all levels and this guy as we know absoloutley nothing about could easily be one of those head cases.

There's no reason to be insulting!

I dont think I was being insulting, but if I was then apologies to anybody who took offence.

Norwich Fan Rob

well he defo doesnt have a set, QQ or AA seems most likely, i wouldnt go all in here with AA, but he might.
I would suggest its slightly more likely he has QQ than AA.
However, as Nicky clearly can outplay these players at this level, perhaps theres no need to take the chance at this stage. (as he did go on win)

ocallagh

Daithio here, ocallagh still logged on.

I've never folded KK preflop. 3 times I've been absolutely positive I was up against aces. I called anyway (just couldn't put them down), and once I was, the other two times he had QQ. I think that once you make your decision preflop, then you should go with it postflop. The mistake was not folding preflop if you were so certain he had them. Personally though I don't think I'd ever fold kings in a sit and go.

The C Kid

ocallagh wrote:

I think that once you make your decision preflop, then you should go with it postflop. The mistake was not folding preflop if you were so certain he had them.

I agree to an extent unless Nicky called his re-raise with the sole intention of folding unless he hit top set which is fair enough.

a-k-47

i think villian put nickyod on A,J on the flop and hoped to take him to the cleaners with his A,A, however he didnt hit a set on the flop because he put em all in, some ppl do not like slow playing AA so therefore i think the all in on the flop was the reason nicky felt he was behind on this occasion, but still i would have called him anyway

Norwich Fan Rob

why on earth would villian put nicky on AJ with that pre flop action, furthermore, if nicky did decide to play AJ there (which he wouldnt), why on earth would he check the flop.

RoundTower

The C Kid wrote:

I agree to an extent unless Nicky called his re-raise with the sole intention of folding unless he hit top set which is fair enough.

It seems this is what he did, however he would need more like 2k for this to make any sense. As it is he is committing 25% of his stack to try and hit a set. I wouldn't be able to fold here, but I think maybe you can. You more or less have to check-call the flop after you see the flop with these stacks.

a-k-47

why on earth would villian put nicky on AJ with that pre flop action, furthermore, if nicky did decide to play AJ there (which he wouldnt), why on earth would he check the flop.

did not read it properly, i thought villian acted first and hoped nicky had aj.