N7: Newlands Cross, 60kmph limit, speeding, etc.

mr_angry

Hi everyone,

I'm about to go on a bit of a rant so please excuse me.

I received a letter on January 10th informing me that I had received 2 penalty points and an €80 fine for speeding on the N7 at Newlands Cross. I was a bit surprised to get this, since I consider myself a careful driver, and I didn't ever recall doing an excessive speed there. When I read further, I found I had been doing 79kmph in a 60kmph zone, which astounded me because I didn't realise that the speed limit on that section of the N7 was so low. The offence was dated November 22nd.

I do a lot of travelling out that way to work, and so from the date I received this letter, I made certain not to exceed that speed on that particular stretch of road. Indeed, it was only at this point that I noticed the roadsigns stating the 60kmph limit. However, all the traffic, and I mean _ALL_ the other traffic would appear to be doing ~80kmph, and it is virtually impossible to do a sub-60kmph speed without causing a massive traffic jam, or some kind of accident. What astonishes me more is that this section of the road has 4 lanes per direction - thats double the size of the M1 or M50, and yet the speed limit here is halved compared with them.

Then today, January 29th, I discovered another letter at home stating that I had been given another 2 penalty points and another €80 fine for an identical offence on December 15th. Given I travel out this road on a daily basis, there's every possibility that I may have several similar offences against my name in the period before I received the first notification. At this rate, I could be well on my way to a complete driving ban within 6 months of working in the area, and for travelling at the same speed as the rest of the traffic on the road!

I understand that the speed limit is clearly stated, and it was my fault for not being observant enough to look at it, and that hence I have no grounds whatsoever for complaint. However, I am pretty damn cheesed-off at the entire situation, and I think at this stage, (providing I'm still on the road), my only option would seem to be to find an alternative route to work, because otherwise I will go insane.

Has anyone else had any similar experiences on the N7 or elsewhere?

pontovic

Ouch man sorry to hear about that. I drive that route to work also, coming off the m50, and the traffic there generally goes at about 80km/h tops. They should up the speed limit there to 80km/h I think 60 is too low.
Quick question though, would you have been zapped by a fixed speed camera ( do they have them there ?) or a gatso cam from the back of a van ? What time do you drive on this road at ?

lomb

indeed , we live just off newlands x, and my father has been done numerous times. u need to hold 50 km/h before the red cow eoundabout, and 60 after it, otherwise ul be screwed every week. my advise to u is consider seeking a full northern irish uk license immediately. u need to be proactice. u can trade your irish one for a northern one with an address there. but u will need to open some bank accounts there. do this by opening accounts with your known irish address and a week later writing them a letter with your 'new' address in the north. i dont condone doing this but the point system is crazy, doing normal motorists on underrated roads, while not doing boy racers on backroads who cause all the carnage.

ps they are all over the n7 up to newlands x, sometimes they are outside the red cow, sometimes outside bmw ireland, outside cranleys, joels, but most commonly they are on the verge at newlands x.

Nuttzz

N7 after the Red Cow is 50km/h!!! and its a 3 lane road. there are country lanes that are 80km/h. it really is a joke

Mailman

I once got caught for speeding at that spot.

I asked the garda if he thought he was saving any lives by stopping people speeding where the speed limit is inappropriately low on a three lane dual carraigeway with a central median.

He told me to "f*ck off".

This was just before the penalty point system was introduced.

Henry Ford III

Christ I drove that route on Friday, and went as quick as everybody else.

I hope I don't get a letter.

fletch

Henry Ford III wrote:

Christ I drove that route on Friday, and went as quick as everybody else.

I hope I don't get a letter.

Me 2! :eek:

Seth Brundle

mr_angry wrote:

Hi everyone,

I'm about to go on a bit of a rant so please excuse me.

I received a letter on January 10th informing me that I had received 2 penalty points and an €80 fine for speeding on the N7 at Newlands Cross. I was a bit surprised to get this, since I consider myself a careful driver, and I didn't ever recall doing an excessive speed there. When I read further, I found I had been doing 79kmph in a 60kmph zone, which astounded me because I didn't realise that the speed limit on that section of the N7 was so low. The offence was dated November 22nd.

I do a lot of travelling out that way to work, and so from the date I received this letter, I made certain not to exceed that speed on that particular stretch of road. Indeed, it was only at this point that I noticed the roadsigns stating the 60kmph limit. However, all the traffic, and I mean _ALL_ the other traffic would appear to be doing ~80kmph, and it is virtually impossible to do a sub-60kmph speed without causing a massive traffic jam, or some kind of accident. What astonishes me more is that this section of the road has 4 lanes per direction - thats double the size of the M1 or M50, and yet the speed limit here is halved compared with them.

Then today, January 29th, I discovered another letter at home stating that I had been given another 2 penalty points and another €80 fine for an identical offence on December 15th. Given I travel out this road on a daily basis, there's every possibility that I may have several similar offences against my name in the period before I received the first notification. At this rate, I could be well on my way to a complete driving ban within 6 months of working in the area, and for travelling at the same speed as the rest of the traffic on the road!

I understand that the speed limit is clearly stated, and it was my fault for not being observant enough to look at it, and that hence I have no grounds whatsoever for complaint. However, I am pretty damn cheesed-off at the entire situation, and I think at this stage, (providing I'm still on the road), my only option would seem to be to find an alternative route to work, because otherwise I will go insane.

Has anyone else had any similar experiences on the N7 or elsewhere?

Im sorry to hear about your 4 points. However, reading through your post you mentuion that you are a careful driver and that the signs are there for all to see. How then did you not know the speed limit? Seriously - you travel the road every day so how could you not have seen them at least once?
Also as I know the limits on this road and am also aware that the talivan are frequently there, I drive within the speed limit. Never once have I caused a tailback or an incident. Its a four lane carriageway so there is plenty of scope for quicker drivers to overtake me.

Incidentally you were on a dual carriageway not a motorway (like the M50) - there is a difference due to traffic lights, junctions, learner drivers, etc.

Mailman

Was travelling out there today before 7. am
Frozen over.

A madman in a fiesta was undertaking everyone on the hard shoulder at 50mph or more. All other lanes were in good condition but the hard shoulder was very icy.

Here's hoping he gets sense or else meets his maker before too long.

mr_angry

kbannon wrote:

Im sorry to hear about your 4 points. However, reading through your post you mentuion that you are a careful driver and that the signs are there for all to see. How then did you not know the speed limit? Seriously - you travel the road every day so how could you not have seen them at least once?
Also as I know the limits on this road and am also aware that the talivan are frequently there, I drive within the speed limit. Never once have I caused a tailback or an incident. Its a four lane carriageway so there is plenty of scope for quicker drivers to overtake me.

Incidentally you were on a dual carriageway not a motorway (like the M50) - there is a difference due to traffic lights, junctions, learner drivers, etc.

I appreciate your point there, and as I said in my original post, its my fault for not being observant enough and not looking at the roadsigns. I just got swept along at the same speed as the other traffic. That may not be 'careful', but at least it doesn't seem reckless.

It really is a case of just having to stick to the speed limit. I just hope that other people reading take this into account, and don't fall into the same trap. It would appear that this is a mobile Garda unit, as opposed to a speed camera. Now every time I see a white van parked by the side of the road, I get a cold sweat. I'm just hoping that there aren't enough offences waiting in the post for the interim period to ban me completely.

Seth Brundle

I reckon that it was a Gatso van - a tall transit with blacked out rear windows and in either red, green or white. Some of them can also detect speed from the front as well as the back!
They frequent a number of stretches around the city.

Saruman

I know how you feel.. no points but i remember coming off the M50 at the red cow and heading down towards woodies. I was doing 60kmph and there was a truck going slow so i overtook it before pulling back into the far left lane (for woodies). Just then a bus pulled out from the bus stop revealing a white van.. i knew it to be a gatso van.. after overtaking the truck i was doing 80. Now other cars in the other lanes where going faster than me so i can only assume if they were doing anyone that they did them instead. As i found out the next day the speed limit is actually 50kmph

_Kaiser_

I've found that a lot of the time, there's either no indication as to what exactly the limit for a stretch is, or it's very unclear.

For example, if anyone knows the back roads from Blanch to Finglas via Ballycoolin, for about a month the signs at Cappagh hospital were twisted so that it appeared that you could do 60 coming into Finglas but only 50 heading the opposite direction - contrary to what they've been for years.

I assumed that the local kids had been messing (as one was only halfway twisted) and so would always do 50 coming into Finglas (the road surface isn't great anyway) but in the last week or so the council must've been out because now you can indeed do 60 coming in, and 80! on the way out.

In my opinion these back roads are such that doing anything even close to 80 is madness, and yet they've reduced the Snugborough road (a nice, smooth, wide road for most of it) from 60 to 50??

Whoever decides these things should be fired cause it makes no sense!

stevenmu

The speed limit is based more on the obstacles you will encounter on a stretch of road than it's width or surface quality. For e.g. the back road between blanch/finglas has very few obstacles between cappagh hospital and the Snugborough rd. It's easy, and pretty safe to get up to 80 along stretches of it, as long as you slow down plenty for the bends. The Snugborough rd may be wider and smoother but it has more turn offs into industrial and residential areas, it has residential areas along the side of part of it, traffic lights (including that traffic island that seems to get every second day), and of course the road works.

Savman

kbannon wrote:

However, reading through your post you mentuion that you are a careful driver and that the signs are there for all to see. How then did you not know the speed limit? Seriously - you travel the road every day so how could you not have seen them at least once?

It's a 6 lane dual carriageway ffs!

To the OP, maybe invest in one of these

Seth Brundle

Savman wrote:

It's a 6 lane dual carriageway ffs!

...and what? The signs are clearly visible

WizZard

Savman wrote:

It's a 6 lane dual carriageway ffs!

To the OP, maybe invest in one of these

Are they any good?
Or do they only sometimes work?

Pigeon Reaper

I know the road well. I think the speed limit needs to be increased to what people actually drive on it. I have seen a number of accidents caused when a driver obeying the speed limit is rear ended by a truck exceeding the limit greatly. This has happened three times in the past year on the stretch from Citywest to the red cow.

Nuttzz

Pigeon Reaper wrote:

I know the road well. I think the speed limit needs to be increased to what people actually drive on it. I have seen a number of accidents caused when a driver obeying the speed limit is rear ended by a truck exceeding the limit greatly. This has happened three times in the past year on the stretch from Citywest to the red cow.

I agree, i have lost count of how many people drive up my rear and flash me etc when i'm "plodding" along at the speed limit

Turner

Am i the only one who thinks the speed limit there is set at the correct level. It is an extremely busy road and as somebody stated here already has 3 lanes. People tend to change lanes and there is almost always a stationary lane waiting to turn for clondalkin.

I drive at the speed limit on that road becuase i know it is policed heavilly and regualrly. Presumably because they have to deal with the numerous rear enders that happen there everyday.

People always accelerate past me up to probably 60mph and surprise surprise at the lights at Newlands X there they are right in front of me, after getting there 10 seconds ahead of me.

People tend to tailgate from the m50 roundabout and forget that lights are actually present at the crossroads, i have seen numerous crashes at the lights caused by people driving at inappropriate speed and then rear ending the car in front.

Also with the fire station nearby emergency vehicles have serious problems trying to get through the lights in emergency situations. People approach the junction too quickly and are unable to slow down or stop.

Also lights are present by the park and ride entrance, pedestrian lights also. I remember once i had to stop on the hard shoulder by DHL to close my boot properly. Im not sure what speed the cars were traveling at but all were travelling to close to the one in front and in my opinion at an inappropriate speed. It was frightening and i couldnt wait to get back into my car.

Cars are so insulated and comfort enabled that people forget that crashing at 40 or 50 mph they could end up with serious injury or even be killed.

To the OP sorry about your fines but i think the limit on the roadway is acceptable, also everybody knows it is heavilly policed even my grandad who is 92.

Plus i presume receiving the fines will ensure you drive at the limit in future.

Sherlock

On that basis shouldn't the M50 have a 60 km limit also?, its a busy road too. Lots of traffic and regular interchanges with cars joining/leaving the motorway.

Turner

Dont get me wrong im not all for reduced limits.

I think the section of the m50 joining firhouse to ballinteer should have a speed limit of 120km/hr the same as the rest of it.

Not sure why it is reduced, think i heard somebody say before that it cuts through residential areas and something got to do with noise pollution. But then again that could be a load of rollix

mr_angry

I'm not disagreeing with anything you said Chief - I now know that I was completely in the wrong. My only major gripe with the situation is that by the time I found out I had got 2 penalty points, I may well have gotten myself a full ban without even knowing. As my car is almost vital to the job I do, this is worrying me a lot. As of the first letter, I have taken great care to adhere to every single speed limit, regardless of my opinions on what it should be and why. Yet at this point, it may well be too late.

Turner

Oh dont get me wrong i think you should have gotten the notifications alot quicker. Within a few days if possible.

Maybe lodge a complaint with the local Superintendant. A simple letter would get the matter looked into im sure. Might even get them quashed. It would be worth a try.

Pataman

WizZard wrote:

Are they any good?
Or do they only sometimes work?

Yes they do work, but dont get caught with one. You can get the build in type which are invisible to the casual Garda.

TempestSabre

It will get like the UK soon. Where you see people braking suddenly for no reason, until you realise everyones so scared of speed fines, they just slam on the brakes at any suspect pole or van.

Have you seen those warning signs that detect your speed then warn you that you are speeding. I though they were great. They should have to put those up for week before they change the speed limits on a road.

Johnny Storm

mr_angry wrote:

.... My only major gripe with the situation is that by the time I found out I had got 2 penalty points, I may well have gotten myself a full ban without even knowing. ...

100% agree. I was done (73 in 60 zone) in the same place in mid-November and got the letter in mid-Jan so there was no deterrent effect for two months after I committed the "offense". Any number of points could be working their way through the system towards me :eek:
PS I am not in any way denying that I broke that law or that I am in the wrong, just that I am annoyed - why does it take 2 months to send what is plainly a computerised letter?
Is it that if they sent it in a more timely way (ie in the post the next day) you might remember the details better and be more likely to dispute it?

ciscokid

Coming off m50 at the red cow you go from 120 kmph to 50 , heading into town. there is frequently a speed trap there to catch people. I try to do 50 kmph but its scary as hell. Feels like you are walking and everyone piles up behind me. One day I will get rear ended/ killed then it might go up to 60kph. When you move into the long mile road (half width and twice the obstacles) it goes up to 60kph. :mad:

Supercell

TempestSabre wrote:

Have you seen those warning signs that detect your speed then warn you that you are speeding. I though they were great. They should have to put those up for week before they change the speed limits on a road.

On the way to the Loughlinstown gym I pass one of these, if i'm below 50kph its shows nothing, above it flashes my kph, extremely effective imho. I test my driving daily by trying to get it not to flash (at 50 it doesnt flash - just shows 50kph!) and not to be crawling like a granny!!

If people realised visually like this that they were breaking the speed limit I bet they would slow down. Works very well on this particular housing estate, people just don't speed even though its not a gatso or a speed cam (though presumably other drivers like myself assume there is a garda with a camera waiting to catch my car and the speed sign showing 50+ in the same frame!!)

whippet

Chief--- wrote:

Dont get me wrong im not all for reduced limits.

I think the section of the m50 joining firhouse to ballinteer should have a speed limit of 120km/hr the same as the rest of it.

Not sure why it is reduced, think i heard somebody say before that it cuts through residential areas and something got to do with noise pollution. But then again that could be a load of rollix

I belive this is due to the shape of the road and the curve, there are international guidelines as to the speed limit v course of the road.

samo

ciscokid wrote:

Coming off m50 at the red cow you go from 120 kmph to 50 , heading into town. there is frequently a speed trap there to catch people. I try to do 50 kmph but its scary as hell. Feels like you are walking and everyone piles up behind me. One day I will get rear ended/ killed then it might go up to 60kph. When you move into the long mile road (half width and twice the obstacles) it goes up to 60kph. :mad:

I was approaching a Speed camera van last year on that exact stretch at approx 60kph (which felt about right coming off a motorway ramp!) and then spent the rest of the year worrying I'd got points for it especially when I found out it was in fact a 50kph and not a 60kph....it seems such an unnatural speed to enforce there I agree, I'm assuming though its probably to do with the breakers yard to the left hand side of the road.

Saruman

whippet wrote:

I belive this is due to the shape of the road and the curve, there are international guidelines as to the speed limit v course of the road.

I have it on good authority that it is in fact the noise level... As in i was told by a resident that they all complained and the reduced speed was a compromise..
Could still be bull but he was a resident there!

Anyway that 30kph stretch off red cow is just so hard to follow... ESPECIALLY if you are trying to merge with traffic that is all going faster, you hav eno choice but to exceed the speed limit

Ginger83

There are digital signs along the N7 clearly stating what the speed limit is and most of them do have radar units attached reading all vehicles speed!

Seth Brundle

Are you sure they are radar and monitoring speed?

Pataman

No just traffic advisory

Seth Brundle

Thats what I suspected!

mobpd

Ginger83 wrote:

There are digital signs along the N7 clearly stating what the speed limit is and most of them do have radar units attached reading all vehicles speed!

and the one by the new Kill bridge going southbound is frequently wrong ...eg even when stuck in the obligatory rushhour stationary traffic queue it was saying YOUR SPEED is 35 KPH ....I wish it was! You wonder if this uses the same technology as the cops speed guns...

imho they should be targeting the idiots driving in the dark mornings / evenings with poor or no lights on

Ginger83

They are radar and do monitor speed, I know this because I work for the company in charge of them and set some up:rolleyes:
The small black box at the bottom of the roadsign are radar speed detectors but ARE NOT set to read reg plates, only areas of severe accident blackspots request that setting.
One main problem with them being unaccurate is that there are set incorrectly, normally if the limit is 60km/h they are triggered at 65km/h but the clients requests vary a hell of a lot!

I wouldn't worry too much about them but do please remember they are there for a reason (I don't work in the pissings of rain for the good of my health)

Our man in Havana

Johnny Storm wrote:

100% agree. I was done (73 in 60 zone) in the same place in mid-November and got the letter in mid-Jan so there was no deterrent effect for two months after I committed the "offense". Any number of points could be working their way through the system towards me :eek:
PS I am not in any way denying that I broke that law or that I am in the wrong, just that I am annoyed - why does it take 2 months to send what is plainly a computerised letter?
Is it that if they sent it in a more timely way (ie in the post the next day) you might remember the details better and be more likely to dispute it?

In the north or the UK if you don't get the letter in 14 days your home free.

Has anyone sucessfully agruged that 2 months delay is an abuse of process? I am sure there is plenty of scope for such a defence.

mr_angry

I was spitting feathers in the car on the way to work this morning. Do you know what they've gone and done? They've raised the speed limit going down to Newlands Cross to 80kmph! That would have nullified my offences if it had been the case for the past couple of months!

Does anyone think thats grounds for appealing the penalty points, especially since the points haven't actually been applied to my license yet (although I've paid the fine)?

Seth Brundle

The fact that they have changed the limit now has no relevance to your offence. Putting it simply, you exceeded the stated limit and its against the law to do that.
Can you rob a bank now as you reckon they will change those laws in a few months time?

BrianD3

Ginger83 wrote:

They are radar and do monitor speed, I know this because I work for the company in charge of them and set some up:rolleyes:
The small black box at the bottom of the roadsign are radar speed detectors but ARE NOT set to read reg plates, only areas of severe accident blackspots request that setting.

Are you saying that some of these units do read (and presumably record) number plates at accident blackspots? That's the first I've heard of that and find it hard to believe TBH. How exactly are the plates read?

Ginger83

I'm not sure I can answer your question truthfully as I only do the delivering and setting up of these units. Its an automatic program to start the radar but one of our guys set the program up, we have an over-ride system where we switch the program on and set the required limit, if a vehicle exceeds that limit by lets say 5-7km/h this will trigger the system. Normally this will only show the constant speed of all vehicles but if the screen flashes the same figures quickly it has picked up on that vehicle exceeding the limit.

Each sign has its own modem and memory for remote access to all information stored.(I must point out in the time I have been with this company I have not heard of any driver receiving fines for this offence)

mackerski

stevenmu wrote:

The Snugborough rd may be wider and smoother but it has more turn offs into industrial and residential areas, it has residential areas along the side of part of it, traffic lights (including that traffic island that seems to get every second day), and of course the road works.

The Snugborough Road is 2km long. Over the course of the 1.8km stretch from the Hospital roundabout to the lights at Ballycoolin Road it has the following "hazards":


* Uncontrolled T-junction serving Waterville estate but well away from any actual residential units.

* Signal-controlled T-junction into Corduff, well away from any housing.

* Signal-controlled T-junction into National Aquatic Centre. Well-calmed.

* Uncontrolled T-entrance into Industrial Estate with merge in/out lane.

* Uncontrolled and hardly used T-entrance into Abbotstown.

Sight lines on the road are excellent, it's wide (soon even wider) and the only housing anywhere near it is on the other side of a 2m wall. I had assumed that the (inconsistently posted) 50 zone is just for the duration of the road works. To my mind, even 60 is needlessly slow.

Dermot

Victor

Savman wrote:

It's a 6 lane dual carriageway ffs!

So what, so was O'Connell Street!

Its a suburban dual carriageway wtiht traffic lights, what do you expect?