Settle an argument

Druid

Ok can some of the guru's here settle an argument I have with a UK friend.

is MMDS (in Ireland) dvb-c or dvb-t ?

Cheers

- Dru

watty

I don't know 100%, but since it seems to use the same Sagem boxes that Chorus use on Cable and same LNB (down convertor) as Analog, I'd say it DVB-c.

Also the Analog is ordinary AM Video as on Cable, not the FM hat is better on a microwave system.

Analog MMDS is junk. Digital MMDS seems also to be engineered to be cheap rather than excellent.

COFDM vs PSK/QAM is not such an issue at 2.5GHz rather than at UHF though.

Druid

Perfect!
Thanks Watty.

Im amazed chorus/ntl are still supplying Analogue MMDS (?)

watty

Probaily get turned off soon so that Digital MMDS can be changed from 66 chanells to about 100.

Only still on due to lack of finance and the "multiroom" nature. Now that Chorus & NTL are bought by someone with a bit of cash perhaps stuff will improve.

JohnC.

Druid wrote:

Perfect!
Thanks Watty.

Im amazed chorus/ntl are still supplying Analogue MMDS (?)

NTL don't have analogue MMDS. Only Chorus have stuck with that.

steveon

Hi Guys,
Just read your tread regarding Chorus Analog Mmds, I am a chorus installer and I can answer this as follows, the simple reason chorus supplys Analog Boxes still is

1. Analog Boxes will work in some areas where Digital MMDS will cause problems, Digitial MMDS suffers when the direct line of sight is into trees etc, and will breakup and distort, whereas Analog will suffer by being a little grainy, I often fail areas for Digital but will pass them for Analog.

A second reason is that many people dont want digital installed as it often means bringing a cable down the outside of the house and drilling a hole into the sitting room or room where installation is required, whereas for Analog Internal cables can almost always be used.

Thirdly many elderly people have difficulty in using the Digitial Boxes due to the many menus and other functions available to them, and so often request a Downgrade from Digital back to the Analog Service.

So the simple reason Chorus Uses Analog Boxes is that it still makes them a lot of money, old technology but they charge almost the same price as they do for the digital service and they get it.

Hope that helps,
Steve

Lennoxschips

ah, analogue MMDS, those were the days

watty

Kahless wrote:

NTL don't have analogue MMDS. Only Chorus have stuck with that.

I was being pedantic. It's the same company now.

Compared with ease of use of some non-Sky Digital Satellite boxs and low cost (300 Euro a full install = 30 Euro a month for 10 months, once off payment), the channel line up on FREE satellite makes Chorus/NTL analog MMDS or Cable look very poor and bad value
See ICDGopedia
http://bytelive.com/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=Free+To+Air+on+Sky

I'd say the new owners will ditch analog MMDS.

If the signal does not work for Digital, the Analog must be truly terrible.

I think ALL MMDS/Cable should meet a minimum quality of service ro the customer should get it free. Presently there is no real incentive to give a quality service. Since moving here in Feb 1983 I have never seen decent analog cable in Dublin or Limerick, nor decent analog MMDS. The quality of Digital Chorus in Limerick is much higher, but still overall much poorer than a cheap non-Sky free satellite system.

bungeecork

steveon wrote:

... many elderly people have difficulty in using the Digitial Boxes due to the many menus and other functions available to them, and so often request a Downgrade from Digital back to the Analog Service...

Many middle aged people do too :eek: I know I'm pushing 40 an' all but hooking up the Chorus Digital Cable box and a VCR/DVD player combo using only scart leads nearly did my head in the other day.

watty wrote:

.....the channel line up on FREE satellite makes Chorus/NTL analog MMDS or Cable look very poor and bad value....

Once analogue cable is switched off will that clear the way for more digital channels?

bk

bungeecork wrote:

Once analogue cable is switched off will that clear the way for more digital channels?

Well NTL Digital cable already carries around 120 channels. This is far more then free satellite, but less then Sky pay satellite (however NTL does have all the most watched channels, most of the extra channels on Sky are cack shopping and religous channels). So it isn't bad even now.

However you are right, when analogue cable is switched off, they will have far more room for more digital channels. However it is more likely that they will use the extra space to carry High Definition channels and higher speed BB (gigabit ethernet speeds are possible on cable with analogue gone).

watty

My dad is 75 and has had no difficulty with DVD, NTL digital TV and BB, Sky, digital camera and a Creative MP3 player he uses to make live microphone recordings with and slow down on his PC later (learning accordian). Well only a few long distance phone calls. My mum has Sky Digital too and is a total technophobe. Though she had Sky Analog, she only discoverd "Five" after getting Digital Sky. She used to hide the remote when my sisters kids visited though.

Mind you we had a B&W TV at home before we got our first fridge.

watty

bk wrote:

Well NTL Digital cable already carries around 120 channels. This is far more then free satellite, but less then Sky pay satellite (however NTL does have all the most watched channels, most of the extra channels on Sky are cack shopping and religous channels). So it isn't bad even now.

However you are right, when analogue cable is switched off, they will have far more room for more digital channels. However it is more likely that they will use the extra space to carry High Definition channels and higher speed BB (gigabit ethernet speeds are possible on cable with analogue gone).

Actually ONE dish position of Free satellite has more channels than NTL. The limit per satellite position is about 1500 channels. About 20 satellite positions can be received in Ireland.

Satellite + a TV aerial gives all the most watched channels FREE!

See
http://bytelive.com/wiki//tiki-index.php?page=Free+To+Air+on+Sky

I get 1500 FREE TV and 1400 FREE radio on a system costing less than a years typical Sky or NTL subscription. MUltiroom? I have 3 receivers on the Sky position and a fourth that is motorised. The PC records direct from Dish on 4 different satellite positions.

If you are in a City and want PAY TV and phone and BB cheap then Digital Cable is the best deal around.

If you can have your own dish +TV aerial, or don't want a phone line and BB then NTL is less attractive.

If you live outside cable area then NTL is worthless.

paulm17781

watty wrote:

My dad is 75 and has had no difficulty with DVD, NTL digital TV and BB, Sky, digital camera and a Creative MP3 player he uses to make live microphone recordings with and slow down on his PC later (learning accordian). Well only a few long distance phone calls. My mum has Sky Digital too and is a total technophobe. Though she had Sky Analog, she only discoverd "Five" after getting Digital Sky. She used to hide the remote when my sisters kids visited though.

Well my Dad is 68 and he can barely manage to record stuff off sky even though I have given him detailed instructions more than once.

You can't say "If one person can...." I would also think your Dad is a minority case.

watty

Some people have wished fervently that this is indeed true.

bk

Watty, different people have different tastes.

You say that there are 1000's of free channels on satellite, the reality is that there are only about 20 channels that most Irish people would be interested in (BBC, ITV, Sky News, CNN, a couple of Music and kids channels).

For me personally FTA satellite is useless, most of my favourite channels aren't available. It is easy for me to check, I can just check my season passes on my TiVo:

1) C4/E4 has the most season passes
2) Sky One
3) RTE One/Two
4) Living Tv (CSI)
5) Paramount Comedy

I also watch lots of docs on the Discovery channels, but I don't season pass them.

I have no season passes on any ITV channel and I only have Top Gear on the BBC channels.

So for me, most of the TV I watch is on NTL and not on FTA.

What I find is that BBC/ITV are more aimed at an older audience with soaps, UK drama, etc. while C4, Sky, etc are aimed at a younger audience with US imports.

Now I'm not saying FTA satellite is bad, in fact I'm currently trying to get it for my parents, but it isn't for everyone.

In fact I'm getting it for my parents because they have only the bog channels at the moment and it might add a little extra choice, however if they could get NTL, they wouldn't even bother with satellite.

watty

As you say it depends on taste. I do have a sky sub at the moment, but
in the last month I haven't watched Paramount, UK Gold, Sky1/2, Living, C4/E4, RTE at all. Either stuff I'd never watch or repeats I know off by heart.

I think it is time to cancel Sky sub again. Sky3 I'll get even after cancelling.

I'd agree that if you want Pay TV, and can get NTL digital it is a good deal with phone and BB too.

However the BASIC analog Chorus/NTL look poor compared with Free channels.

The only US imports I liked in recent years was the 10th Kingdom, Crusade and Babylon5.

bungeecork

watty wrote:

...I get 1500 FREE TV and 1400 FREE radio...

That is amazing.

watty wrote:

...in the last month I haven't watched Paramount, UK Gold, Sky1/2, Living, C4/E4, RTE at all...

This is way off topic, sorry, but just out of curiosity but if you don`t watch any Channel4, E4 or RTE at all (which amazed me too) what are your favorite TV channels?

watty

Oh I do watch them, but not often, or not often at the moment.

I don't really go for pure soaps, sport, silly quizzes, celebraty programs or "reality TV", these have become more common on TV. There are less good drama, documentaries, Gardening, DIY, Wildlife, music etc, the quality on them has dropped too. Much of what is billed as SciFi is really "horror" genre or just a soap set futuristically. (I like "classic SciFi / Fantasy" such as Bradbury, Wyndham, Asimov, McCaffery, Bova, Harrison, Dick, Le Guin, Fiest, Brooks, Hienlien, "Doc" Smith etc.)

I have been rewatching some old prgrams on ITV3 and ITV4. The Slightly Fantasy, mostly Drama BBC1 "Life on Mars" is good, though last Moday's episode was a bit too "gritty".

Earth Report on BBC World TV is good. I catch the odd recent film/DVD release on NCTV @15W.

We look out for classic or reduced price DVDs of stuff we like and watch a lot of our DVD/VHS back catalog. So we hardly watch TV films at all, as we are likely to have bought the DVD or VHS of it months or years before it was on TV. But we don't rent Video Library any more as they have small back catalog now and concentrate on new releases, a minority of which we would ever watch. The Internet and Digiguide has good film and TV reviews / details so we don't waste time watching stuff we don't like.

We watch much less live TV in in early 1980s with only BBC1, BBC2, UTV and C4.

I watch the odd drama on Polish TV with English Subtitles, Arriang TV (english) Sotu Korea, Thai TV.

News / Current affairs from BBC World, Nile TV International, MSNBC@ 15W, IBACh33 (Israel), Tunis TV7 teletext news, CNN occasionally, DW TV. Russia Today is best new news channel (7x 24 English @13E).

I watch Nature/ Science/Documentary occasionally on the Knowledge mix pack when I have Sky sub. Otherwise I get nature/environemental etc on Terranova, BBC UK TV.

I don't have Favorite channels. I look on Digiguide for programs I want to watch.

So I have as many European "extra channel" stations on Digiguide.

Occasionally I catch programs on FranceX, Arte, Br, TV5 etc.

Sometimes I do watch the od Motor Rally on Racing World, and previously on Motors TV before it left FTA.

Occasional proframs on Classic FM Tv and Performance Channel.

I caught a good Corrs Concert on Turkish Viva @42E.