subliminal messaging

DrIndy

although its not christmas, this is one of those subliminal messages that seem to be hidden into common songs.

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/flash/jinglebells.html

Pet

**** off Indy, I'm not falling for that again! Those things are so last year.

sinjin_smythe

emm got me, cant believe you got me

snorlax

that is one really disturbing song.

Thirdfox

Nearly got me, but not quite... us lawyers aren't fazed by much you know!

John

I can't believe he says "Indy sucks pole" when you play it backwards

DrIndy

:d

Pet

I just realised, that smiley looks like someone licking their lips. I would too, if I earned as much as Indy.

DrIndy

Pet wrote:

I just realised, that smiley looks like someone licking their lips. I would too, if I earned as much as Indy.

Not as much as dentists do, their salary is ridiculous

Nietzschean

don't they have the huge suscide rate to go with it?

snorlax

apparently 1/3 of junior doctors are bullied http://www.irishhealth.com/index.html?level=4&id=8432

and suicide rates are high amongst docs too (more particularly female doctors in ireland) http://www.irishhealth.com/?level=4&id=8150

ApeXaviour

snorlax wrote:

and suicide rates are high amongst docs too (more particularly female doctors in ireland) http://www.irishhealth.com/?level=4&id=8150

That's not really the case. Male doctors would have a higher rate of suicide than female. It's just that women don't tend to (successfully) commit suicide as much as men anyway. So a female doctor might have more chance of killing herself than your average woman, but not more than a male doctor. Not necessarily even as much as your average man.

In our age bracket (16-25) men are 5 times more likely to end their own lives than women.

snorlax

i know you are right in that in the general population more men commit suicide as they tend to use more lethal means (like hanging etc), where as women more frequently use overdoses etc. however it differs in the medical profession probably because some women have families too. (btw sorry for going ot, but i v just done a bit of suicidology in health psychology:D!) it's interesting because it will probably become more of an issue with the increased numbers of females entering the profession.

that extract above i think may be in part based on this review from PubMed.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15569903&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum

Suicide rates among physicians: a quantitative and gender assessment (meta-analysis).

Schernhammer ES, Colditz GA.

Channing Laboratory, Department of Medicine, Brigham and Women's Hospital and Harvard Medical School, 181 Longwood Ave., Boston, MA 02115, USA. eva.schernhammer@channing.harvard.edu

OBJECTIVE: Physicians' suicide rates have repeatedly been reported to be higher than those of the general population or other academics, but uncertainty remains. In this study, physicians' suicide rate ratios were estimated with a meta-analysis and systematic quality assessment of recent studies. METHOD: Studies of physicians' suicide rates were located in MEDLINE, PsycINFO, AARP Ageline, and the EBM Reviews: Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews with the terms "physicians," "doctors," "suicide," and "mortality." Studies were included if they were published in or after 1960 and gave estimates of age-standardized suicide rates of physicians and their reference population or reported extractable data on physicians' suicide; 25 studies met the criteria. Reviewers extracted data and scored each study for quality. The studies were tested for heterogeneity and publication bias and were stratified by publication year, follow-up, and study quality. Effect sizes were pooled by using fixed-effects (women) and random-effects (men) models. RESULTS: The aggregate suicide rate ratio for male physicians, compared to the general population, was 1.41, with a 95% confidence interval (CI) of 1.21-1.65. For female physicians the ratio was 2.27 (95% CI=1.90-2.73). Visual inspection of funnel plots from tests of publication bias revealed randomness for men but some indication of bias for women, with a relative, nonsignificant lack of studies in the lower right quadrant. CONCLUSIONS: Studies on physicians' suicide collectively show modestly (men) to highly (women) elevated suicide rate ratios. Larger studies should help clarify whether female physicians' suicide rate is truly elevated or can be explained by publication bias.

and this one http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11297646&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_DocSum

a systemic review
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=8833679&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_DocSum

[SIZE=+1][/SIZE]

Stresses on women physicians: consequences and coping techniques.

Robinson GE.

University of Toronto, Women's Mental Health Program, University Health Network, Toronto General Hospital, Toronto, Ontario, Canada. gail.robinson@uhn.on.ca

We review current data on types of stressors acting on women physicians, the consequences of these stressors and methods of coping with them. We undertook a systematic review of original articles published in the last 15 years and registered mainly on Medline and on the internet websites focusing on these issues. In addition to the pressures acting on all physicians, women physicians face specific stressors related to discrimination, lack of role models and support, role strain, and overload. The depression rate in women physicians does not vary from that of the general public but the rates of successful suicide and divorce are much higher. Women in academic settings are promoted more slowly, have lower salaries, receive fewer resources, and suffer from a range of micro-inequities. They often lack mentors to provide advice and guidance. They must cope with the pressures of choosing when to have a child and conflicts between being a wife and mother and having a career. Despite these pressures, they report a high degree of career satisfaction. Although women physicians suffer from a variety of stressors that can lead to career impediments, stress reactions, and psychiatric problems, generally they are satisfied with their careers. Personal coping techniques can help women deal with these stressors. Pressures will continue until attitudes and practices change in institutional settings. Some institutions are initiating changes to end discrimination against women faculty. Copyright 2003 Wiley-Liss, Inc

and this http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12768652&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum

ApeXaviour

Okay, that's all well and good. I don't doubt female physicians can suffer a variety sociologically induced problems. Neither do I doubt that they do a hari-kari a lot more than the average woman. But I don't see anywhere that it says "female physicians commit suicide more than male physicians" or anything that would imply that. Infact it indirectly implies the opposite. So my point does still stand.

DrIndy

Doctors know how to kill themselves better than most people and so when they do it, it tends to be successful.

Unlike people who simply overdose, such as someone I met who tried to kill himself by taking his wifes hormone replacement therapy tablets!

ApeXaviour

DrIndy wrote:

Doctors know how to kill themselves better than most people and so when they do it, it tends to be successful.

Quite perceptive!

DrIndy wrote:

Unlike people who simply overdose, such as someone I met who tried to kill himself by taking his wifes hormone replacement therapy tablets!

lol.. I shouldn't laugh but omg...

That reminds me of a local lucan girl there a few years back who tried to commit suicide. She went to the texaco garage with a box of matches and covered herself in diesel... :rolleyes:

snorlax

well the definition of rate ratio is it "indicates how many times suicide is reported in one population group compared to another."

and it did say it was higher for females in the first article although you are right in that there could be confounding variables like publication biases that may have influenced the results that may have influenced suicides being reported more for the females then the males but there are other articles that suggest female doctors are more susceptable to depression etc on the job (and i haven't done enough research into the matter to confirm or deny that as i would have to critique all the articles/ systemic reviews). i ll do a proper search when iget home tonight

Nietzschean

was that not females who were doctors vs the general population? i didn't see any statistic comparing them to men in the first one at all..

ApeXaviour

snorlax wrote:

that may have influenced suicides being reported more for the females then the males. i ll do a proper search when iget home tonight

Well I wouldn't say that now. I suppose I'd better elaborate:

If you accept the ratio of male to female suicide deaths in the general populous as being 4:1 (the apparent ratio in the US, Im sure it's something similar here). Then accepting the figures from your references, the ratio of male physician to female physician suicides would be: 4 x 1.4 : 1 x 2.3. Which gives 5.6:2.3 or approximately 2.5 male physician suicides for every female physician suicide.

But these are absolute figures, gathered from your relative ones. It's not to say that men have more problems being physicians. It's likely the contrary, which is what you are concerned with right? Hence the relative figures you're presented. I just thought it could do with some perspective

Nietzschean wrote:

was that not females who were doctors vs the general population?

Females who were doctors vs the general [female] population. And vice versa.

snorlax

yeah i understand you now i thought it was comparing to the whole population rather then to male and female ratios seperately.

btw the stats may be higher for men as they use more non reversible means of killing themselves such as hanging(most common method amongst men). also some overdoses/ suicides(most common method) by women may not be reported as such, they may be reported as accidental. also most doctors would be above the 25 year age bracket so the stats would not be as different between the sexes.