Coolant Question

murphaph

Hey all,
Ok, I'm used to two types of keeping a motor cool;
Water & Anti-Freeze (a la my old mkII Golfs)
G12 Volkswagen Specific coolant (pink stuff, premixed, must use in all modern VW cooling systems)

Now, I have to look after this Renault Megane I recently bought for the mother. I would like to put coolant (as opposed to water and anti freeze) into it. Now, Renault original coolant is €20 a gallon in GSF and I reckon this car will take about 6 liters (pricey!). The Renault stuff is made by Elf and is called "Type D Coolant". Is all cheapo premixed coolant this "type D" or is it something like VW G12 that has to be specially obtained (from VW, Otto or GSF). Any help guys, ths is doing my head in. The Renault manual is useless and my Haynes hasn't arrived yet.

colm_mcm

I would tend to bring it to a mechanic, if you make a bags of it, you're in trouble.

lomb

afaik G12 is dilutable with water 50/50, i just use it neat which is fine as the cars we have dont lose more than a few ml every few years , but i thought it was dilutable.
G12 is life long coolant and doesnt need to be drained and refilled according to the manual.
as far as renault goes, u can persuambly dilute the stuff? not really sure about whats special about g12, maybe its just longer lasting stuff?

BrianD3

I would advise you to use the Renault coolant. This stuff is premixed so you just lash it in The Megane will take about 5 litres.

All coolants are not the same and they are more complex than they seem. Eg different coolants use different chemicals for rust inhibition. I believe Renault Type D uses carboxylic acids whereas other coolants can use borates or silicates. Using the wrong coolant or mixing of different coolants may reduce rust inhibition properties.

murphaph

colm_mcm wrote:

I would tend to bring it to a mechanic

I don't think sooooooooo

..if you make a bags of it, you're in trouble.

So the trick is to educate one's self as to the correct way of going about a task and then execute said task properly. I have done many more difficult things on cars than changing the coolant. I just need to be sure of this Renault spec and I'm good to go Having blind faith in mechanics has been the motoring downfall of many's a person.

murphaph

BrianD3 wrote:

I would advise you to use the Renault coolant. This stuff is premixed so you just lash it in The Megane will take about 5 litres.

All coolants are not the same and they are more complex than they seem. Eg different coolants use different chemicals for rust inhibition. I believe Renault Type D uses carboxylic acids whereas other coolants can use borates or silicates. Using the wrong coolant or mixing of different coolants may reduce rust inhibition properties.

AFAIK the Renault coolant is available in 5L premixed and 1L concentrate packages. Do you buy it from GSF Brian? How much are you paying for yours?

BrianD3

murphaph wrote:

AFAIK the Renault coolant is available in 5L premixed and 1L concentrate packages. Do you buy it from GSF Brian? How much are you paying for yours?

I've bought if from both GSF and Renault dealers. IIRC GSF was about 20 euros for 5L and Renault was about the same. I read on the internet about these 1L concentrate containers that you mention however I've never seen one of them. Any of the 1L contaioners I've bought have had the same premixed stuff as is in the 5L containers, so I'm dubious about the "1L concentrate" story.

murphaph

BrianD3 wrote:

I've bought if from both GSF and Renault dealers. IIRC GSF was about 20 euros for 5L and Renault was about the same. I read on the internet about these 1L concentrate containers that you mention however I've never seen one of them. Any of the 1L contaioners I've bought have had the same premixed stuff as is in the 5L containers, so I'm dubious about the "1L concentrate" story.

Do GSF sell the 1L packs? I asked the guy in GSF today about the 5L Renault stuff-you're right, it's €16+VAT, just under a score. I'm leaning towards buying this to be honest. I'd like to be able to buy the 5L pack and if I need a drop more just to be able to buy a 1L pack instead of another gallon! Any idea how much the 1L pack is?

AMurphy

BrianD3 wrote:

I would advise you to use the Renault coolant. This stuff is premixed so you just lash it in The Megane will take about 5 litres.

All coolants are not the same and they are more complex than they seem. Eg different coolants use different chemicals for rust inhibition. I believe Renault Type D uses carboxylic acids whereas other coolants can use borates or silicates. Using the wrong coolant or mixing of different coolants may reduce rust inhibition properties.

Something along these lines. There is the generic coolant, (Water + Glycol) and it may be green, pink or red... color is not the issue.

There is a new type, I have not researched the difference, but one of the mail problems I have heard of if the new formulation is required and not used is seal and gaskek problems. Something to do with the formulation of the rubber in the seals and their compatibility with the coolant.

So, the way I would look at is this, Whether it is G12 or F16 is try determine the chemical composition. I would expect the container has to have the chemical composition these days... reason, what if someone drank it. So emergency folks can treat them... So you'd be looking for a Glycol or some other composition.
Once you have the composition required for your engine..... price is all that matters.

BrianD3

murphaph wrote:

Do GSF sell the 1L packs? I asked the guy in GSF today about the 5L Renault stuff-you're right, it's €16+VAT, just under a score. I'm leaning towards buying this to be honest. I'd like to be able to buy the 5L pack and if I need a drop more just to be able to buy a 1L pack instead of another gallon! Any idea how much the 1L pack is?

Not sure if GSF do the 1L but IIRC the 1Ls are about 5-6 euros from Renault. I haven't got the figures in front of me but I think the E7J engine holds 5.5 litres coolant but you won't get quite that much in as there will be some residual old coolant left after draining. So I'd say 5 litres will be sufficient.

murphaph

Cheers lads. I was in GSF today and they don't sell the 1L packs but he's gonna get some in on Thursday for me I bought the 5L pack anyway, I'll figure out between now and the next time it needs doing if a cheaper alternative can be found. I searched the websites of big non-brand manufactruers like Comma and they have stuff that might do it but wasn't explicit enough (and I don't know who stocks comma here!) and didn't mention Renault (did mention VW G12 etc.).

IrishRover

murphaph wrote:

I don't think sooooooooo


So the trick is to educate one's self as to the correct way of going about a task and then execute said task properly. I have done many more difficult things on cars than changing the coolant. I just need to be sure of this Renault spec and I'm good to go Having blind faith in mechanics has been the motoring downfall of many's a person.

Well said!

AMurphy

colm_mcm wrote:

I would tend to bring it to a mechanic, if you make a bags of it, you're in trouble.

Well..... there may be some truth in this this statment, but it also depends on your level of expertise.

I have first hand from a person; They decided to top off the fluids themself. After 3 buckets of water, it still was not full.
Main reason being the person was addind the water via the oil filler.

So work within your "comfort zone", otherwise seek help..... I didn't say you have to pay for it, just seek it at least.

murphaph

Well I flushed out the cooling system on the megane today and it was pretty clean thank God. Ended up sticking the genuine Renault stuff in-it took 4 litres or so (there would have been a little clean water at the bottom of the rad by the way the bottom hose connects to it from above). I'll defintely try to identify a compatible coolanr for next time but even 20 bucks every 2-3 years is grand really.

murphaph

Was in a factors today that had 'type D' compatible colant made by Bardahl. I thought it would be cheap but it was actually almost exactly the same price as the Renault stuff from Reault themselves. Glad I found it and it seems I wasn't ripped off by the main dealer.

BrianD3

That's good to know about the Bardahl stuff.

AFAIK the Type D spec. is an organic acid coolant and needs to be changed every 4 years. It is not a "lifetime" coolant like some coolants claim to be. The VW G12 might be one of these. I think these coolants have a higher conc. of organic acids.

grk_car

Yeah, it's definitely a lot safer to let an auto professional do the job.

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unkel

You were warned before about dragging up old threads and your shilly sig, grk_car. I won't warn you again. You're banned for a week