Hypothetical Question...

SwampThing

OK - so, I have a basic Sky subscription.... Billy orders Multiroom - Billy receives a second decoder and card, right?

Hypothetically - and I want to stress, this is a hypothetical question before I get my ass kicked - if that second box was connected to an already-installed dish at another site, would it work independently?

Also, Multiroom requires a dual lnb - correct?

Finally, if Billy ordered Multiroom, can Billy just get the kit and do the installation himself, or does the installation have to be carried out by Sky installers?

Thanks...

Tony

hypothetically you are forgetting that both boxes must be connected to the same phoneline precisely so stop what you are proposing

SwampThing

Is that just for activation?

Tony

SwampThing wrote:

Is that just for activation?

no

SwampThing

OK, thanks for your help Tony.

rogue-entity

Before you kick my ass on this or accuse me of a wrongdoing:
I know someone that has multiroom, and only the main box in their sitting room is connected to a phoneline, the box in their bedroom is standalone and just connected to the dish. In addition they ONLY need to keep the box connected to the phoneline for the minimum contract period, if they fail to keep it connected then they are just billed for the full price of the box. So theoreticaly, if I was to bring there bedroom box to another site and connect it up to the dish it would remain active until the sub on the "parent" box or the multiroom service, was canceled. No this is just a theory, I would not suggest you try it at all because woe betide you if you are caught (assuming that Sky would do more then just cancel your sub). And futher to this, I do not condone, encourage or support people doing this if it is breaking the law.

SwampThing

Not sure I understand there rouge. When you say 'they ONLY need to keep the box connected to the phoneline for the minimum contract period, if they fail to keep it connected then they are just billed for the full price of the box.' - what d'you mean?

If they don't connect the second box to the phone, they get billed for the physical box or what? What is the minimum contract?

What about multiroom if Billy don't want the kit, just the service and the card?

andrew3

rogue-entity wrote:

Before you kick my ass on this or accuse me of a wrongdoing:
I know someone that has multiroom, and only the main box in their sitting room is connected to a phoneline, the box in their bedroom is standalone and just connected to the dish. In addition they ONLY need to keep the box connected to the phoneline for the minimum contract period, if they fail to keep it connected then they are just billed for the full price of the box. So theoreticaly, if I was to bring there bedroom box to another site and connect it up to the dish it would remain active until the sub on the "parent" box or the multiroom service, was canceled. No this is just a theory, I would not suggest you try it at all because woe betide you if you are caught (assuming that Sky would do more then just cancel your sub). And futher to this, I do not condone, encourage or support people doing this if it is breaking the law.

It Doesn't work like this - both boxes must be connected! - the second box does do some sort of communication with the other -- try changing the prefix in the installer menu - it dials into the second! --plus you'll get an ass load of postal reminders from sky -please reconnect your second box to the phone line or we'll charge you an additional sub!

I have two - one for Wexford and one for Dublin, when Im up from the country I plug the second box back into the phone line
This beats the having to have the additional sub for the house in wexford

watty

They don't dial each other. it's a bit more subtle. Sky can take 3weeks to 3 months to complain if boxes are not on SAME pnone line.

andrew3

watty wrote:

They don't dial each other. it's a bit more subtle. Sky can take 3weeks to 3 months to complain if boxes are not on SAME pnone line.

They do, do some communication between each other - cause the second wont dial unless the first one is on the line?

byte

I agree with watty, I don't think they dial each other. When Sky do callbacks, I'd imagine both boxes are made call within a few minutes of each other, so if one fails, the other will be told to ring. Then the CLID's are checked and cross referenced to make sure the numbers match.

Tony

SwampThing wrote:

OK, thanks for your help Tony.

Pleasure, hope it works out for you.

Tony

andrew3 wrote:

They do, do some communication between each other - cause the second wont dial unless the first one is on the line?

The second one wont dial if the first one is not connected to save time, theres no point in the second one dialing if the first is not connected as the callback test has already failed and sky can move onto the next customer to check. There is no communication between the two boxes.

Charlie

My two boxes are always communicting with each other, about all sorts really. They usually have s good nark with each other about the crappy software they're given. I think I overheard them today talking bout how duck told them dog is gay.

hawthorn

So that would mean, in my case, that i would have to pay the installer to bring the phone line to the sitting room (its in the hall) and again to living room/bedroom wherever. I thought it was just the Sky+ box that had to be connected.

K

SwampThing

andrew3 wrote:

I have two - one for Wexford and one for Dublin, when Im up from the country I plug the second box back into the phone line
This beats the having to have the additional sub for the house in wexford

Can you elaborate on that a bit more Andrew - sounds promising...

Pal

I plugged out the phone line some years back.
Once my 12 month thing was up.

If I go multiroom, do I need to plug it back in again ?

watty

For mirror sub yes (proves your mate hasn't got the card instead). If you simply distribute the SAME signal to all the rooms, then no more digiboxes needed.

Or you can have two different ordinary non mirror subs and no phone lines (cost more obviously, by 7 euro for cheapest Sky pack).

Or add FTA receivers for the other rooms. 99% of what we watch is FTA, so I have 3 other digital receivers with no sub as well as the 2 mix packs.

I might even cancel the mix packs next month!

Tony

Pal wrote:

I plugged out the phone line some years back.
Once my 12 month thing was up.

If I go multiroom, do I need to plug it back in again ?

yes of course

Pal

sod that then. I will stay with FTA.

andrew3

I noticed this on a couple of installs if you press - services 0 1 select new installation and try call back without the first box connected the second box sits there and just keeps giving call back failed!? ( i could go perform an indept analysis on what happens but do I care what it does -simple answer -no-

Ok so like alot of young people out there - I usually stay at the folks house during the week - so clever thing - I got the sky multiroom at home in Dublin and then when I go home at the weekends/holidays etc I just take the second box down the coast! - saves me payin an extra subscribtion and allows the boxes to communicate with each other completing my contractual obligations!

Tony

Andrew maybe you did not read or are simply ignoring the facts, the boxes do not communicate with each other (they cant). You were very quick to criticise an installer on another thread without knowing the facts so perhaps you think its ok to ignore them, its not. Lots of people rely on this forum for information so you would do better to stick to the factually correct .

andrew3

Tony wrote:

Andrew maybe you did not read or are simply ignoring the facts, the boxes do not communicate with each other (they cant). You were very quick to criticise an installer on another thread without knowing the facts so perhaps you think its ok to ignore them, its not. Lots of people rely on this forum for information so you would do better to stick to the factually correct .

Have you tried it? - there is some tactic involved -merely reading the call ids wouldn't work because if two lines had the line id withheld the system wouldn't work - the second box does signal the first to call back....

As for the installer that took 2 hours to find a broken wire---
why was he in the attic? -couldn't he have started "tracing the cable" back from the digibox?


Tools:
MultiTool Cable Tester
Find faults in cables up to 2500 feet long.
Identifies and locates the distance to an open or short in seconds.
Measures cable length in a box, on a spool, or in a wall.
Traces hidden cable runs with its transmit tone signals.
(don't leave home without it)

Its no-wonder it took him hours to find the fault! - what if the fault had been small and un-noticable - a break in the inner conductor of the coax?

Say this job -
first check fault - 4-5mins
check dish signal -15mins
check with different box to eliminate box failure - 15mins
pull new cable through/repair break -30mins?

bringing the tv from that room down to the reciever to make sure it wasn't the tv tuner,

why was he lugging Tv's around? -when the TV guide menu comes on screen from the box - does this not indicate that the TV is hooked up correctly?

I didn't criticise the other installer and I did read the other posts --(Example - I had to panasonic boxes near each other (not near enough that the remote could operate both at same time) - I changed the second box so it would dial "9" to get an "outside line" what I noticed was that this box paused and the green "online" light on the first switched on -hence there is something communicating between both boxes to tell sky they are infact on the same telephone line. if you look at the line between them on an oscilloscope you will notice ******** ******** ******. This enables Sky to police the boxes without reliance on Telephone I.D.

watty

andrew3 wrote:

Have you tried it? - there is some tactic involved -merely reading the call ids wouldn't work because if two lines had the line id withheld the system wouldn't work - the second box does signal the first to call back....
.

A little knowledge is dangerous. I can write a program for two PCs with modems:

1) They get told when to phone home by Wifi
2) I can tell if they are on the same line WITHOUT CLI by two methods. If one method always fails and the other succeeds, then they are on different lines.

Simplest.. 1) If they EVER succeed in calling home with an OVERLAPPING call, then they are on different lines.

2) Also a box won't dial if line is in use, ergo they can tell if the other box is online. This is not signalling between boxes. Easy also in homebrew modem SW.

Andrew. Don't post opinion as fact.

Personal directed critisim is not allowed either.

Tony

As Watty says a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. A digibox can only dial in to sky it cannot dial in to another box. As for the installer dont judge a man unless you have walked in his shoes.

Pal

so if one gets multiroom, can they plug out the phone line after 12 months and then take box #2 away with to another location ?

watty

You can unplug phone lines ANYTIME, you just have to pay for two susbscriptions. You may also have to pay value of any subsidy if it is within the year.

The "Any subscription" and "additonal cards that do same sub for 15 Euro per box" is a called a Mirror Sub. All the digiboxes on the same mirror sub need to be on the same phone line forever, to prove you are not reselling a 65 Euro sub to a friend across town.

(There are special arrangements for ISDN users in the case where either the number shows up different or both can dial at the same time. I don't know what it involves. Possibly sending Sky an Eircom bill showing your numbers. I'm guessing. No idea really).

Tony

Pal wrote:

so if one gets multiroom, can they plug out the phone line after 12 months and then take box #2 away with to another location ?

if you want to pay full sub on both then yes but not much point as you could sign up again at new location.

andrew3

watty wrote:

A little knowledge is dangerous. I can write a program for two PCs with modems:

1) They get told when to phone home by Wifi
2) I can tell if they are on the same line WITHOUT CLI by two methods. If one method always fails and the other succeeds, then they are on different lines.

Simplest.. 1) If they EVER succeed in calling home with an OVERLAPPING call, then they are on different lines.

2) Also a box won't dial if line is in use, ergo they can tell if the other box is online. This is not signalling between boxes. Easy also in homebrew modem SW.

Andrew. Don't post opinion as fact.

Personal directed critisim is not allowed either.

Then by your method - I could unplug one of them completely and never worry about sky calling me about the second box?-- funnily enough the second box I had installed was stolen by some mal content during the summer months and we couldn't pin point when exactly he'd done the robbery - no security camera's on the system at the time - a quick phone call to sky and they told me - yes both boxes dialed back on 18th june then both on 20th July but we got no call back from 7th of August from the second box..... I know the boxes can tell when the line is busy but when the line is busy it normally doesn't illuminate the green light on the front of the box. therefore when a manual call back is performed on the second box why does the green "online" indicator on the front of the first also illuminate?


The modems in the boxes don't work on digital exchanges - ended up having to share with the analogue fax

SwampThing

So, the answer to my original question is....... no?

That the second box must be connected to the same phone line/number as the main box or Sky will charge Billy for two full subscriptions - yeah?

Thanks.

andrew3

na your boned mate - unless -there is one method -- Peats do these "wireless" telephone extenders whereby you plug this adapter in beside the phoneline this then modulates the a signal over the mains frequency so you can plug in another adapter into any socket in the house and get your phone line .... also since -"usually" the ESB supply the same phase to every third house on your road you can plug your adapter in their sockets too and also get the phone line! neat eh!

watty

andrew3 wrote:

Then by your method - I could unplug one of them completely and never worry about sky calling me about the second box?--

Obviosuly if both boxes don't report one is unplugged or brooken, Too obvious to state.

Tony

SwampThing wrote:

So, the answer to my original question is....... no?

That the second box must be connected to the same phone line/number as the main box or Sky will charge Billy for two full subscriptions - yeah?

Thanks.

Your understanding is correct