Another question of right-of-way.

seamus

OK, a realistic one this time (I came across it this morning).

You have a three-lane carraigeway (or two lanes + a bus lane). There are vehicles in the far left and far right lanes, and the middle lane is empty. Both vehicles in the extreme lanes are at the same point in the road (i.e. one vehicle isn't ahead of the other). Both indicate to enter the middle lane.

Who has the right-of-way for the middle lane? My gut tells me that the guy in the right-hand lane technically has right of way because he is (technically) completing an overtaking manouver, whereas the guy in the left-hand lane is beginning an overtaking manouver.

This morning I just accelerated ahead of the other vehicle and pulled in in front of him.

stevenmu

I'd say whoever indicated first should go in, before you even indicate to change lane you should be checking to see it's clear to move over, at that point you would see someone else indicating in and let them move in before you do. In practice many people don't check before indicating though and only look before moving (if they even look at all), in which case whichever car actually starts moving for the spot first effectivly get's right of way. All that being equal then I'd agree that the car in the overtaking lane should get right of way.

Idleater

Interesting one,

Would another example of this be for example a slip road which is merging into a two lane carrigeway? I.e. if you are on the slip road, you want to join the carrigeway "centre" lane and there is someone in the "overtaking" lane that wants to move into the "normal driving" lane after completing an overtaking manouver?

In this case, drivers on the carrigeway are supposed to allow cars from the merging lane to merge so the person in the overtaking lane should not move into the driving lane until either the merger has merged and is ahead or behind them.

If on the other hand it is a straight 3 lane road, the driver on the left that wants to overtake should be aware that drivers from the far overtaking lane could come across and as a result they should not begin their overtaking manouvre until they are sure that none of the overtakers are going to move into the centre lane.

Seamus, which driver were you?

stevenmu, who decides who indicated first? What if one did not see the other indicating first because they were checking their mirrors and therefore (wrongly) preumes that it was themselves that indicated first? Indicating is a signal of intent and does not confer right of way.


L.

prospect

In the point by the OP, unless the person in the inside lane was a bus or taxi, they would certianly NOT have the right of way, as they shouldn't be in the bus lane.

nereid is correct regarding the person merging onto a motorway

In a normal 3 lane road (e.g. Citywest to newlands cross) it is hard to call as the outside lane is an overtaking lane, but becomes (at some unmarked point) a 'prepare to turn right' lane.
Would the 'yield to the person turning left' rule apply?

seamus

In my case, I was a bike in the outside lane, and it was a taxi in the bus lane. As it was, neither of us had indicated yet, I had a "feeling" that he was going to do it, so when I did the lifesaver, I clocked him right in the eyes, knew he was going to move, so just accelerated ahead. There was no contention, or beeping or pushing. The issue of right-of-way only occured to me afterwards.

pontovic

I think you have to give way to traffic on the right. I heard someone in work saying this. The car in the far right lane would have right of way. Just like cars already on the road have right of way over cars merging onto that road from a slip road.

WizZard

nereid wrote:

Would another example of this be for example a slip road which is merging into a two lane carrigeway? I.e. if you are on the slip road, you want to join the carrigeway "centre" lane and there is someone in the "overtaking" lane that wants to move into the "normal driving" lane after completing an overtaking manouver?

There's some joker that comes off the UCD slip road onto the N11 (heading for Donnybrook) every evening that stops at the end of the slip road before merging! nearly caused 3 cars to crash the other night.

Vehicles coming from the right have right of way, AFAIK, especially as you were finishing an overtaking maneouvre.

Balfa

In Texas, it's actually stated in the rules of the road that the person in the outside lanes always have right of way over someone in inner lanes. I agree with that. I always treat outside lanes as higher priority. Talking about looking over your shoulder or who was indicating first doesn't help, because you have to take into account the possibility of both drivers looking over their shoulder at the exact same time and indicating at the exact same time.

I didn't know that thing about giving right of way to someone in an on-ramp attempting to merge with the flow of traffic. I would have thought it would be the opposite (although I can understand, because they're rapidly running out of road and I'm not) and I think it is the opposite over here.

Is that in the rules of the road? And does it apply to the general case of, say, a three lane road reducing to two?

NUTLEY BOY

QUOTE " There's some joker that comes off the UCD slip road onto the N11 (heading for Donnybrook) every evening that stops at the end of the slip road before merging! nearly caused 3 cars to crash the other night. "

Shocking though it may sound that joker is perfectly correct in what he does. His obligation is to yield to traffic on the main road and to check that it is safe and or clear for him to enter the N11 before he does so.

Must look out for you next time I am driving a fire engine past that location

---

Alun

Shocking though it may sound that joker is perfectly correct in what he does. His obligation is to yield to traffic on the main road and to check that it is safe and or clear for him to enter the N11 before he does so.

Yielding isn't the same as automatically stopping whether it's necessary or not. Granted, there may be the very occasional situation when it might be necessary to stop, but there is an endemic problem in Ireland of drivers who have absolutely no concept of the principle of matching their speed to that of traffic on the main carriageway before merging.

johnnyrotten

Give way to traffic on your right!

colm_mcm

johnnyrotten wrote:

Give way to traffic on your right!

doesn't that only apply at junctions etc?

Anan1

"Shocking though it may sound that joker is perfectly correct in what he does. His obligation is to yield to traffic on the main road and to check that it is safe and or clear for him to enter the N11 before he does so"

Nutleyboy - the idea of a slip road is to allow drivers to match their speed to the speed of the traffic on the road they are joining!! Anyone who finds themselves at a standstill at the end of a slip road is not fit to be driving. We do our checks while driving down the slip road...

WizZard

Anan1 wrote:

"Shocking though it may sound that joker is perfectly correct in what he does. His obligation is to yield to traffic on the main road and to check that it is safe and or clear for him to enter the N11 before he does so"

Nutleyboy - the idea of a slip road is to allow drivers to match their speed to the speed of the traffic on the road they are joining!! Anyone who finds themselves at a standstill at the end of a slip road is not fit to be driving. We do our checks while driving down the slip road...

Even worse when he had matched speeds and then bottles it.

Not good when there are a few cars behind him.

Balfa

Speaking of stopping on sliproads, I encounter the junction in the attachment every day on my way home. In this case the red car (SUV, usually) doesn't even have to match speed because they have their own lane to continue into directly in front of them

Yet invariably every day I get there, there's some muppet stopped in the middle of the road staring over their shoulder to make sure there's no traffic in an adjacent lane! And just to take the piss, when they do start moving, they just stay in the right hand lane and don't attempt to merge into the middle or left lane :rolleyes:

seamus

Balfa wrote:

Speaking of stopping on sliproads, I encounter the junction in the attachment every day on my way home. In this case the red car (SUV, usually) doesn't even have to match speed because they have their own lane to continue into directly in front of them

Yet invariably every day I get there, there's some muppet stopped in the middle of the road staring over their shoulder to make sure there's no traffic in an adjacent lane! And just to take the piss, when they do start moving, they just stay in the right hand lane and don't attempt to merge into the middle or left lane :rolleyes:

There's a very similar one on the M50 northbound at the N4 exit. The entire sliproad for going west is separated by a concrete island (which has a traffic light for the rest of the junction, but occasionally people stop and almost cause an accident), and then it has its own dedicated lane, just like in your illustration. The lane is a tiny bit smaller (by maybe 6 inches) than a normal lane, but I've seen people actually stop in this lane and try to merge into the lane on the right. Regularly people panic when they get into this lane, as if they're going to be crushed :rolleyes:

Seth Brundle

Seamus I have seen that many many times.