RTEs Stardust drama

Fools Gold

As many of you will be aware RTE are showing a two part drama about the stardust disaster to coincide with the 25th anniversary in February. Theres been alot of talk on radio and in the papers over the last couple of weeks regarding this drama. I basically wanna know what people think of this drama being shown. Do people think its insensitive? Do they think it will be helpful/educational? Do people under 25 even know what happened?

Fools Gold

Fools Gold wrote:

Do people think its insensitive?

Don't think we'll know how sensitive it is until it's aired. But just about every tragedy is now the subject of some programme or other, I don't think we can watch stuff about say the Vietnam War or Hillsbrough and then claim our disaster is off limits.

Fools Gold wrote:

Do they think it will be helpful/educational?

Hopefully, but again we won't know until we see it.

Fools Gold wrote:

Do people under 25 even know what happened?

That's a good question. This country should never forget, and even though I was a kid at the time I think anyone who was old enough to realise the enormity of the tragedy will ever forget where they were as news filtered through that morning. Had an older brother living in Artane at the time, and he was never out of pubs and clubs, so remember the parents waiting by the phone and the relief when he called to say he got drunk somewhere else...

simu

I imagine it will all be rather cringy. A documentary would do the job.

mike65

I'm not a big fan of this kind of drama but that does'nt mean it can't be well made and 'sensitive'. Certianly no-one should be able to say "dont make this".

Mike.

TerrorFirmer

Can someone please explain what Stardust is? Thanks. Never heard of it before...

dregin

Google:
"The fire at the Stardust Club in Dublin in February 1981 was responsible for the
deaths of 48 people."

mike65

The Stardust was a disco (well a coverted warehouse) in which a fire ocured on Valentines night 1981, all the emergency exits were padlocked 48 younsters died.

Needless to stay "Disco Inferno" by The Tramps was rearly heard on the radio after that.

Mike.

TerrorFirmer

Oh yes, although I was a fair few years away from existance at the time I remember reading about that, in school actually I believe.

Horrible stuff. Think I will watch it out of curiousity. Thanks for the info

Nevyn

MobileInfantry wrote:

Can someone please explain what Stardust is? Thanks. Never heard of it before...

^ This lack of awareness and that many of the facts never came to light and no one was ever charged or taked to court over what happed is why the production is being done.
It will be based on facts and will re enact what happened to the teens following
then getting together for a night out with thier friends so that people learn about those that died leading up to the fire and the aftermat.

Cutie18Ireland

even though i wasn't born till 1987. I've heard alot about the stardust, my mam is from coolock and one of her brothers was supposed to be their that night but missed his lift i think so yeah alot of us do know about it...

simu

Meh, it was sad and all but hardly something I'd be calling to have on the history curriculum tbh.

damienom

Grew up in Clontarf, my aunt lives directly behind it, think her windows were blown out by some form of explosion that came from the Stardust. Cousins were both turned away from the door.

Did a radio documentary on it a couple of years ago. Spoke to 4 or 5 people who were there that night, they all told the exact same version of events- even pointing to the same individuals as being responsible despite none of them knowing each other. Found it odd that nothing ever happened in terms of an investigation or conviction. People on the Northside still hold incredibly strong feelings on the whole thing.

The main problem with this is the fact that nobody had the decency to consult the families. The first they heard about it was on Liveline

monkeyfudge

Thaedydal wrote:

^ This lack of awareness and that many of the facts never came to light and no one was ever charged or taked to court over what happed is why the production is being done.

I believe Christy Moore was the only person to be taken to court over it. He wrote a song about it and that song has now banned because of accusations leveled at the Stardust owners in the lyrics.

A drama about the event could work very well. I grew up in Artane and currently live in Coolock, I was even in the Stardust earlier in the day on the day it burned down. It acted as cinema as well and I remember seeing Watership Down that day. But I've heard some pretty good stories over the years from lots of diferent people that would make for excellent dramatic material. I'd really rather see it on the BBC though... RTÉ will be interupting it for ad breaks every few minutes, which I think could be seen as a little bit insensitive.

damienom

You're right about Christy, wrote a song called The Never Came Home and was sued for libel. There's one line in the original which caused a bit of hassle.

He reworked it and has it on the boxset he released a year or two ago

simu

simu wrote:

Meh, it was sad and all but hardly something I'd be calling to have on the history curriculum tbh.

Perhaps, but then again I didn't realise the history curriculum was a good yardstick for measuring tragedy, and failure to appear in a history book certainly doesn't mean something didn't happen or that it was glib. The Titanic didn't maked the history curriculum either, now that I think of it, but I'm pretty sure it happened and many suffered and died...

damienom

damienom wrote:

You're right about Christy, wrote a song called The Never Came Home and was sued for libel.

He should have been sued for murdering Fairytale of New York. There is no defence for what he did to that classic...

nlgbbbblth

damienom wrote:

You're right about Christy, wrote a song called The Never Came Home and was sued for libel. There's one line in the original which caused a bit of hassle.

He reworked it and has it on the boxset he released a year or two ago

It was on the original pressing of the Ordinary Man LP from 1985. Not too difficult to pick up second hand.

nlgbbbblth

simu wrote:

I imagine it will all be rather cringy. A documentary would do the job.

RTE showed a Prime Time special on it around 2001 or so. Had actual footage of the ambulances outside the venue with people's hands hanging out of the toilet windows which were barred up. Harrowing to see as it brought back memories of the original news report in 1981. I remember Anything Goes being interrupted with a news flash that Saturday morning.

The book that came out a few years ago is good too.

simu

Deleted User wrote:

Perhaps, but then again I didn't realise the history curriculum was a good yardstick for measuring tragedy, and failure to appear in a history book certainly doesn't mean something didn't happen or that it was glib. The Titanic didn't maked the history curriculum either, now that I think of it, but I'm pretty sure it happened and many suffered and died...

Somebody was asking if people thought the show would be educational - I don't think it would. (could have other merits, though)

Terry

if it raises awareness of overcrowding in nightclubs, then it will serve a good purpose.
i have vague memories of the event itself. i was only five at the time. i have some cousins who had been there a few times and still remember their mother telling them to remember what happened in the stardust every time they were going out.

damienom

I'd be along the same lines as yourself JuleP. Found for months after reading the book that came out 2 or 3 years ago that I was sizing up the exits in places the minute I got into them

Fools Gold

Thanks for the views so far. I was interested because I worked on the filming of the drama and have been surprised at how negative alot of people have been towards it being shown. I understand how families of victims would be upset if they werent consulted and if this is the case I think RTE have made a big mistake. I think it will be beneficial to the families still fighting for justice because it raises the public profile of what happened. Ive been surprised by the amount of people who didnt know anything about it, after all it was the worst fire in Irelands history. Thats why i think it could be educational, if it informs people who didnt know about it or have little understanding of what happened. I also agree that many tragedies have been made into tv/films........Omagh,Hillsbrough,clerical abuse,bloody sunday,theres a couple of 911 films in production in the states so why not this?

fly_agaric

Thaedydal wrote:

This lack of awareness and that many of the facts never came to light and no one was ever charged or taked to court over what happed is why the production is being done.

It's not being made to entertain people (every tragedy/war/disaster must have a dramatic tv program or film made about it after a "tasteful" period of time has passed, people lap it up), draw advertising revenue for RTE and possibly make more money for RTE if they can convince the Brits or others to buy it (not their tragedy but they still my be interested in the concept at least)? All I can say is - weird.

I have some good ideas for a film about the Tsunami - is it too soon? Should I follow my muse?:)

damienom

Main difference between this and ones such as Omagh and Hillsborough were that the families in both of those were consulted and shown versions of them before they were screened. I know the latter was changed after the family raised some concerns.

The way this was managed was a disgrace to be honest

Nala

I was an extra in the Stardust film and I'd never heard of it before then. My mother was a secretary at the college that Antoinette (and Martina and Mary as well I think) Keegan attended. Antoinette Keegan survived the fire and is now on the Victim's Committee.

I do think it's terrible that Martina and Mary Keegan (who both died on the night) are main characters in the film considering their families were never consulted. Other characters are the couple who won the disco dancing competition, I think they died too but I'm not sure, one of them was Jimmy Buckley.

I can only imagine how horrific it must have been to be there that night. When we filmed the scene where everyone is in a panic running around the disco in the dark because there is a fire, it was scary. And that was a controlled fire, where we knew it would all be stopped as soon as the director said cut.

bruce wayne

the families were at a very private screening on Saturday. The actual fire scenes were quite horrific. Nothing out of the ordinary, just too much for most of the parents to watch.

There were a lot of inaccuracies in the movie. Not least that one of the central characters, Jimmy, was based on a actual person who wasn’t consulted once prior to the screening. The writer acknowledged he ****ed up and apologised. Despite the errors in some of the specific details, it is an important drama for people to watch. The stardust could happen again, because the legislation and it's enforcement is totally inadequate.

Elmo

Hopefully it will reopen an investigation into the case which is what the families are looking for.

The fire exits where locked when the fire took place and the owners recieved 600,000 punts in compensation as the fire was started maliously (sp?).

The series is based on a novel about the Stardust.

eth0_

It's funny, even after Stardust you still see horrific overcrowding in nightclubs. Not so much in Dublin where fire regulations are actually enforced, but there's one club I used to go to in Drogheda, 'Fusion', and literally every time I have been there in the last few years it has been so packed that you had to queue to get into the beer garden or out the main door. Not helped by the fact there are toilets on either side of the short corridor leading to the main exit. I've often tried to get out of the place and it has taken 5-10 minutes.

Imagine there was a fire?

I said it to the owner and he said who's going to stop him? I later found out he's good mates with the chief fire officer in the town.

So a tragedy like the stardust club could easily happen again, twentyfive years on.

Hagar

mike65 wrote:

The Stardust was a disco (well a coverted warehouse) in which a fire ocured on Valentines night 1981

Close, it happened on the night of Friday 13th Feb 1981. I'm not trying to be pedantic it's just that I was married the next day and the event sort of overshadowed things a bit. It's hard not to remember the tragedy when you are reminded of it every year on your anniversary*


* Another tragedy but we won't talk about that now

Nala

eth0_ wrote:

I said it to the owner and he said who's going to stop him? I later found out he's good mates with the chief fire officer in the town.

That's ridiculous. I hope you've stopped going there! :eek:

nlgbbbblth

Elmo wrote:

The series is based on a novel about the Stardust.

Not a novel but a work of non-fiction detailing the events and its aftermath.
A good read - I believe it's getting reissued.

ChickenBalls

Did anybody record this as I never got to see it?

vibrant

I had no idea that it was written without consulting the family - especially the family that was the main focus of the second part.

That said, I watched the whole thing and I was moved greatly. I was very young when it happened, and it never really registered on my radar until I saw the drama. I was in tears - and then I was very angry. It was terrifying to watch, and heartbreaking to see the way the victims and families were treated ... it seemed that they were never given any form of dignity or respect (my opinion on that being solely based on the drama, I would gladly be corrected on this count).

Keith123, I don't know if it will be repeated, but I understand that Prime Time are doing a special on the tragedy this evening, and they are going to bring some "new evidence" out. I hope it will bring around some sort of prosecution for whoever it was who chained up the emergency exits.

Elmo

It would be a very hard drama for RTE to repeat anytime soon.

I had no idea that it was written without consulting the family - especially the family that was the main focus of the second part.

I was listening to one interview recently when the families where brought into the first screening of the programme, the woman interviewed said that RTE had councillers available at anytime which accourding to her was more then the government had ever done.

But it still doesn't make up for not being consulted in the first place.

monkeyfudge

vibrant wrote:

It was terrifying to watch, and heartbreaking to see the way the victims and families were treated ... it seemed that they were never given any form of dignity or respect (my opinion on that being solely based on the drama, I would gladly be corrected on this count).

That was actually very poorly done. The community really did pull together to support the victims after the tragedy, and that didn't get a mention at all.

Elmo

That was actually very poorly done. The community really did pull together to support the victims after the tragedy, and that didn't get a mention at all.

Perhaps from the community but not from the Law and Government.

Pigman II

Saw the video of the programme yesterday and I thought it was poorly done. Especially the second part.

It was like a bunch of 'highlights' from anicdotes just loosely strung together under the banner of 'Stardust'. Husband and wife fight. Drunken guilty son sleeps on the road. Father has a chain, father has a gun, father has a heart-attack. Why? Eh cos they lived thru stardust and it's really 'affecting' them!

Didn't help much that the parents of the (Keegan?) family central to the story were portrayed as people I couldn't really feel any sympathy for. The wife came off like a sour little bitch and the husband as a vigilante.

Probably nothing close to the truth of them but characters like this I have no time for no matter how awful their loss.

loyatemu

yeah, I only saw the second part but its seemed very poorly made - no scene lasted more than 20 secs and they mostly consisted of people saying one or two words and then bursting into tears or shouting. It was very difficult to follow what was going on.

A documentary would've done a better job, but I suppose they'd already done that a few years ago and they had nothing new to add to it.

Freelancer

Fools Gold wrote:

I understand how families of victims would be upset if they werent consulted and if this is the case I think RTE have made a big mistake.

As I understand it, the production company consulted the writer of the book mentioned a few posts ago, who assured them that he had spoken and was working with the family support group of the stardust survivors. What he failed to mention is that there are two family support groups, having split several years ago, over an issue arising from the campaign (I'm vague on these details). RTE and the Production company are guilt of incredibly shoddy research, and since the production company has either folded or gone to ground, the blame is entirely focused on RTE.

You can understand how one camp of the families is going to be outraged since only one side of the story is being told.

Furthermore, if you look at Omagh, an RTE/C4 co production. Several meetings with all involved before shooting started (including the justice campaign and people who did not want to be a part of it) channel 4 had councillors, and therapists in Omagh during the filming, at the private family screenings. They took a great deal of care to protect the families. RTE appears to have learned shag all from this co-production and acted with scant regard for the victims and their families.

I think it will be beneficial to the families still fighting for justice because it raises the public profile of what happened.

Well yes and no, people generally see these things as the one true version of events, and for one side at least it seems the other version of events, is being written in stone.

What RTE just have not grasped is for many of these people the state has betrayed and ignored them, and RTE as the state broadcaster, is part of these institutions. When it takes 10 years for even a simple memorial to be built, when the owner of the stardust got a thousand times more compensation than any victim.

Ive been surprised by the amount of people who didnt know anything about it, after all it was the worst fire in Irelands history. Thats why i think it could be educational, if it informs people who didnt know about it or have little understanding of what happened. I also agree that many tragedies have been made into tv/films........Omagh,Hillsbrough,clerical abuse,bloody sunday,theres a couple of 911 films in production in the states so why not this?

I don't think it's a question of should it be done but more than manner of it's execution thats got people's back up, the poor way the state has behaved towards the families of victims and the survivors, the fact that until now, little attention has been paid, but because there's some TV movie, we're all talking about it, and the general vibe among some people is "why haven't you done something about it, before now!"

mickymg2003

Watched the drama and the Documentry that was on last night(Tuesday) The documentry was good but the drama seemed pointless imo. Just looked like an attempt to rake in some cash on a big thing like the stardust disaster.
The documentry brings new evidence and exposes the failures of the tribunal to investigate it properly.

Elmo

Watched the drama and the Documentry that was on last night(Tuesday) The documentry was good but the drama seemed pointless imo. Just looked like an attempt to rake in some cash on a big thing like the stardust disaster.

It is generally hard for RTE to make money back on any Drama they produce. Unless they release it on DVD (I cann't imagine that they will) RTE won't make much money on this, I cann't see very many internation TV Broadcasters looking to buy it either.

It was like a bunch of 'highlights' from anicdotes just loosely strung together under the banner of 'Stardust'. Husband and wife fight. Drunken guilty son sleeps on the road. Father has a chain, father has a gun, father has a heart-attack. Why? Eh cos they lived thru stardust and it's really 'affecting' them!

As I said before the second episode could easily have been 5 episodes long and episode for each year after the Fire.

Didn't help much that the parents of the (Keegan?) family central to the story were portrayed as people I couldn't really feel any sympathy for. The wife came off like a sour little bitch and the husband as a vigilante.

I was with the father when he attacked Eamon Butterly, he was dead right IMO.
Ger Ryan (The Family) is one of Ireland's best actresses and IMO did a wonderful job of protraying a mother who had lost her two daughters.

magnumlady

I thought the drama was very well done. I found it heartbreaking watching it and I felt so sorry for all the families involved.
I really hope they get some answers, it seems to me like there are loads of back handers going on.
I can't believe Butterly got compensation, for what? For over crowding and keeping fire doors locked and killing innocent people?
It sickens me.

tvnutz

Apparantly 1.5 million people watched it...thats big!

lilmissprincess

He got nearly 600,000 ponds compensation, the families got very little and his loss was repairbale. How can you put a larger price on a piece of property than on a child?
I think he should have got jail for the door thing.