The poor road signage is down to implementation, not design standards!

murphaph

I have obtained a copy of the Traffic Signs Manual. It is published by the Dept. of the Environment and costs €70, maybe it's too expensive for the NRA and the local county councils or something?! :mad:

One of the guys on SABRE had a pdf copy (it's massive, 30MB altogether) and he's given it to me. It's a total revelation. Our design standards are at least on a par with the UK (unsurprisingly as it follows the Guildford rules almost exactly).

The M50 gantry sign and most gantry signage erected recently totally fails to adhere to the design standards which are exactly the same as the UK. The manual even has plenty of example drawings for the local authorities to follow. The M50 gantry signage on the South Eastern Motorway (as we all know) is diabolical as it takes no account of the fact that there is no lane drop at any of the junctions and actually falsely indicates that there is a lane drop at some of the junctions!

I've cropped some of the text and associated figures from the design manual and posted it here. Feel freeto be surprised that w actually do have rigorous standards that are simply ignored by the people supposed to follow them!

Here's the quote from the design manual pertaining to motorway gantry signage;

Department of the Environment wrote:

Gantry Signs on Motorways
Consideration may be given to the use of gantry signs where:
(i) lane indication is necessary for the appropriate destinations
ahead.
(ii) the geometric configuration at the junction (e.g. horizontal or
vertical curve) requires it.
(iii) there are 3 traffic lanes or more in one direction.
There are two types of gantry signs:
(i) one for the "lane-drop" situation where the left lane of the
approach carriageway forms the off-slip lane and does not
continue through the junction.
(ii) One for the "non lane-drop" situation where the number of
lanes on the approach carriageway continue through the
junction.

Non Lane-Drop
3.3.25 The non lane-drop sign is similar in design to standard stack type
signs. The assembly consists of two main signs, one above the
other. The lower sign with the ahead arrow should be centred over
the main running carriageway whilst the upper sign is offset so that
the inclined arrow is not directly above the lower sign. An example
sign is shown in Figure 3.29.

Lane-Drop Signs
3.3.26 Lane-drop signs are also similar in design to stack type signs
although directional arrows are replaced by lane arrows located
below the main signs. Each route should be shown on a separate
directional panel to give the appearance of two panels side by side.
These separate signs should be aligned over the appropriate traffic
lanes. See Fig 3.30.

(see attachment_1)

It's clear as fcukin day but whoever put that rubbish up on the M50 (and N2 and so on that they didn't bother with the manual. Strangely, it can be done properly-this and this both follow the manual. The N18 gantry is different because non-motorway national routes have slightly different design standards (see attachment_2).

D'Peoples Voice

murphaph wrote:

I have obtained a copy of the Traffic Signs Manual. It is published by the Dept. of the Environment.
The M50 gantry sign and most gantry signage erected recently totally fails to adhere to the design standards

Maybe I'm imagining it, but I could have swore Minister Brennan or his predessor a few yrs ago asked Dublin city council to take down some colourful road signs which he believed were in direct contravention of what was allowed under the signage guidelines!
Now, if I workd for City Council I'd be pretty piss*d that when they deviated from the guidelines, they were made take them down, but when other county councils do it, there is no complaints from the Minister!

Calina

D'Peoples Voice wrote:

Maybe I'm imagining it, but I could have swore Minister Brennan or his predessor a few yrs ago asked Dublin city council to take down some colourful road signs which he believed were in direct contravention of what was allowed under the signage guidelines!

Those signs, if I recall correctly, were so totally in secret code they were worse than useless.

Pfungstadter

Every new bypass seems to have it's own separate specifications for road signs. It's just a bit mad. Dunno why the NRA doesn't put the foot down and implement a universal system. Maybe who ever is in charge of that is a complete nób when it comes to standard signs. They probably just think, " yep it's blue and says M50, that good enough for me"

Zaph0d

Quote from Bertie's last election manifesto

Given that one of the most common complaints made about our road system is the lack of proper signage on non-national roads, we will put in place a new 5-year plan to ensure that non-national roads are properly signposted. The possibility of implementing this programme through a Public Private Partnership will be explored.

Did this happen?

corktina

Zaph0d wrote:

Quote from Bertie's last election manifesto Did this happen?

announced on radio today.........