Omaha Genius or Numpty Play (HH)

BigDragon

Is Box England's pre-flop re-raise here a great move or a shocking display of idiot poker? I'm 40/60 on this one. Just thought it was interesting. The fact he won is not the point though.


Jan 12 22:39:34] : Hand Start.
[Jan 12 22:39:34] : Seat 1 : addler has $9.50
[Jan 12 22:39:34] : Seat 2 : thefence has $12.07
[Jan 12 22:39:34] : Seat 3 : Katpee has $81.19
[Jan 12 22:39:34] : Seat 4 : DerryABU has $17.25
[Jan 12 22:39:34] : Seat 5 : MR2DUCKS has $30.05
[Jan 12 22:39:34] : Seat 6 : Gofor has $0
[Jan 12 22:39:34] : Seat 7 : 7heavenx has $53.53
[Jan 12 22:39:34] : Seat 8 : Box England has $96.12
[Jan 12 22:39:34] : Seat 9 : BigSynergy has $141.49
[Jan 12 22:39:34] : BigSynergy is the dealer.
[Jan 12 22:39:34] : addler posted small blind.
[Jan 12 22:39:34] : thefence posted big blind.
[Jan 12 22:39:34] : Game [26714] started with 8 players.
[Jan 12 22:39:34] : Dealing Hole Cards.
[Jan 12 22:39:34] : Seat 9 : BigSynergy has 5d Ks Th Kd
[Jan 12 22:39:39] : Katpee folded.
[Jan 12 22:39:42] : DerryABU folded.
[Jan 12 22:39:43] : MR2DUCKS folded.
[Jan 12 22:39:48] : 7heavenx folded.
[Jan 12 22:39:51] : Box England called $0.50 and raised $1
[Jan 12 22:39:53] : BigSynergy called $1.50
[Jan 12 22:40:08] : addler has 10 seconds to respond.
[Jan 12 22:40:11] : addler called $1.25
[Jan 12 22:40:15] : thefence called $1 and raised $6
[Jan 12 22:40:30] : Box England has 10 seconds to respond.
[Jan 12 22:40:36] : Box England called $6 and raised $6
[Jan 12 22:40:42] : BigSynergy called $12
[Jan 12 22:40:45] : addler called $8 and is All-in
[Jan 12 22:40:52] : thefence called $4.57 and is All-in
[Jan 12 22:40:53] : Dealing flop.
[Jan 12 22:40:53] : Board cards [7d 3h 3c]
[Jan 12 22:40:59] : Box England bet $48.57
[Jan 12 22:41:01] : BigSynergy folded.
[Jan 12 22:41:02] : Showdown!
[Jan 12 22:41:02] : Seat 9 : BigSynergy has 5d Ks Th Kd
[Jan 12 22:41:04] : Seat 1 : addler has 7s Ac 4c Td
[Jan 12 22:41:04] : Seat 2 : thefence has 8s Ah Qd As
[Jan 12 22:41:04] : Seat 8 : Box England has 4d 3d 8c 2d
[Jan 12 22:41:10] : Board cards [7d 3h 3c 8h 2s]
[Jan 12 22:41:10] : Seat 8 : Box England has 4d 3d 8c 2d
[Jan 12 22:41:10] : Box England has Full House : 3s full of 8s
[Jan 12 22:41:10] : Box England wins $2.72 with Full House : 3s full of 8s
[Jan 12 22:41:10] : Seat 8 : Box England has 4d 3d 8c 2d
[Jan 12 22:41:10] : Box England has Full House : 3s full of 8s
[Jan 12 22:41:10] : Seat 2 : thefence has 8s Ah Qd As
[Jan 12 22:41:10] : thefence has Two Pair: Aces and 3s
[Jan 12 22:41:10] : Box England wins $7.33 with Full House : 3s full of 8s
[Jan 12 22:41:10] : Seat 8 : Box England has 4d 3d 8c 2d
[Jan 12 22:41:10] : Box England has Full House : 3s full of 8s
[Jan 12 22:41:10] : Seat 1 : addler has 7s Ac 4c Td
[Jan 12 22:41:10] : addler has Two Pair: 7s and 3s
[Jan 12 22:41:10] : Seat 2 : thefence has 8s Ah Qd As
[Jan 12 22:41:10] : thefence has Two Pair: Aces and 3s
[Jan 12 22:41:10] : Box England wins $36.10 with Full House : 3s full of 8s
[Jan 12 22:41:25] : Hand is over.

Marq

Numpty genius?

EDIT/ The only thing he has to fear is a re-raise from you. considering how you played the hand before the flop it looked unlikely that you would re-raise. He'll be committed to calling the shortstacks' all-ins on the flop, so all he really does here is simplify the hand so that he is heads up after the flop comes down.

RoundTower

No, he should fold his hand at every opportunity. If he is going to play, though, it makes some sense to try and keep you out with his raise. I don't understand your play in this hand. You don't have odds to flop a set, and apart from that you hit the best flop possible for you, and folded? This is push or fold preflop, you have a crap hand.

BigDragon

RoundTower wrote:

No, he should fold his hand at every opportunity. If he is going to play, though, it makes some sense to try and keep you out with his raise.

Yeah, what I was thinking. His hand selection to do this tho baffles me.

RoundTower wrote:

I don't understand your play in this hand. You don't have odds to flop a set, and apart from that you hit the best flop possible for you, and folded? This is push or fold preflop, you have a crap hand.

I agree but I made this call based on player notes (he likes 6789, QJT9o type hands) and position. The way this table was playing mosy were very bad post flop players and could not fold naked AA and the like post flop after missing in multi-way pots.

Norwich Fan Rob

only 1 of those 4 hands should have been in play, only play the KK rag rag for the minimum and bin if u dont flop a set.

to me the guy was a lunatic playing that hand for the original raise in the first place.

95% of the play i see in low level omaha is totally baffling to be honest.

Im sure that England guy plays bingo on a wednesday night also.

Marq

I forgot to mention that this guy is clearly bonkers. In my original post it reads like I think he should play the hand, but I think his hand is muck. the point I was trying to make is that if he's prepared to play the hand (which is pretty nuts) then his raise isn't awful.

His hand is awful.

BigDragon

Marq wrote:

I forgot to mention that this guy is clearly bonkers. In my original post it reads like I think he should play the hand, but I think his hand is muck. the point I was trying to make is that if he's prepared to play the hand (which is pretty nuts) then his raise isn't awful.

His hand is awful.

Hence my query.

RoundTower

BigDragon wrote:

I agree but I made this call based on player notes (he likes 6789, QJT9o type hands) and position. The way this table was playing mosy were very bad post flop players and could not fold naked AA and the like post flop after missing in multi-way pots.

I don't understand. If he is likely to have AA you should fold preflop, the stacks are nowhere near deep enough to hope to hit a king. If he is more likely to have 4 connected medium cards you should push preflop (best), fold preflop (second best), or call on that flop. Calling and folding when you didn't hit a king is pissing away money, there is no read that would make this the right thing to do.


edit: changed around push and fold preflop. I still think folding is the best option, but if you knew he had four connected cards it would not be.

Norwich Fan Rob

too much omaha get played pre flop in my opinion.

I play small stakes plo, sucessfully using 4 rules:

Always have 4 cards working
Never draw to anything other than the nuts (ie dont chase a flush unless its ace high and theres no board pair, never ever draw to a low straight, try and check down a low full house)
Never let yourself be freerolled (ie if u both clearly have the str8, and theres a 4 flush out there, dont build up the pot on the turn)
Fold bottom/middle set on dangerous boards

Simple formula but defo works, its amazing how people will pay u off with the king flush or low str8.

RoundTower

Norwich Fan Rob wrote:

too much omaha get played pre flop in my opinion.

I play small stakes plo, sucessfully using 4 rules:

Always have 4 cards working
Never draw to anything other than the nuts (ie dont chase a flush unless its ace high and theres no board pair, never ever draw to a low straight, try and check down a low full house)
Never let yourself be freerolled (ie if u both clearly have the str8, and theres a 4 flush out there, dont build up the pot on the turn)
Fold bottom/middle set on dangerous boards

Simple formula but defo works, its amazing how people will pay u off with the king flush or low str8.

I play all stakes PLO, successfully, using none of those rules.