Diary of a new installation

c ashelmore

First post so forgive me if I err! Having decided to ditch Chorous here in Naas (no French ,Spanish, channels) I set out on the path of learning all about Sat from scratch.Have spent 2 months reading guides & forums and now realise that I need a least another month.However I have chosen Grid aerial for Irish channels plus dish.Initially I wanted Motorised but now realise that you can only watch one Sat at a time, ie the kids would also have to watch it also. So I have gone for a mutibracket for 4 LNBs.First visit was too Zin...k in Tallagh.Only go there if you know exactly what you want! Everything is locked away so you can't handle anything for weight,etc. Triax bracket cost e45, a bit pricey,next time I'd go to satellite.ie.
Bought a dish,Triax TD 110 in Antenna electronics in Ardara when I went back to Donegal at Christmas.It cost €120,not a bad price I think.Twin Lnb cost €69.If you are going there phone to make sure someone will be there.They have some stuff on display,including the 1224 Supermount for €180 which I couldn't source anywhere else.Next post will be on the problems in assemblying this dish!

c ashelmore

First problem was where do thes bits go?

( Oops how do I insert images into a post?)
The vendor couldn't help me nor the Triax web site unfortunately.However after a lot of searching the following seems to be the answer:
http://www.satellites.co.uk/php-bin/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1481&d=1101576820
This site also helped:- http://www.satmax.co.nz/?page=tech&techpage=triax_mounting.php
This gives 20- 55 degrees .If you turn the U-block upsidedown it will give 5 - 40 degrees.Either way will suit Ireland I think.
The 6 bolts mounting the bracket to the dish seem very flimsy to me and are not flush with dish surface.I dont think this dish would last in the winds of Donegal.! Curiously 2 of them are Phillips the rest crossheads. Hope this helps someone.

Zaphod

Depending on the actual delivery charges, you might get the 1224 cheaper from Germany. I think I was charged around €50 for the 1224-EL.
http://www.satshop24.de/pi-1102567720.htm?categoryId=58

Sponge Bob

A large motorised dish on the west coast is a scary scary thought as is the salt issue if near the coast ....which will rust everything, especially motors, PDQ

If I was designing a system I would consider a motorised on the east wall of my house to give me the eastern sats with hotbird ( 13e) (french channels and TV5 free) westernmost and the house blocking every sat west of that BUT with the house blocking the wind from the w / sw direction as well. , if that dish was sheltered I would consider motorising it.

The spanish stuff, hispasat, involves pointing a dish INTO the prevailing wind to the sw . That would be as small as possible and static, hispasat is around 5w or further.

The receiver would have to be reasonable because one LNB feed is motorised and one LNB feed is not .

This all depends on the aspect of your house of course but that would be my general plan for the dishes and survivability .

Dish sizes.

Hotbird / Astra Motorised and sheltered dish = 80cm
Hispasat Dish , static and unsheltered = 110cm maybe 100 cm , I defer to more precise knowledge of Hispasat beams here

watty

70cm should be OK even for most of Hispasat.

I lost the reflector element of my big 10 element 144MHz yagi on chimney mounted rotator last night or night before. (looks like a band III DX aerial on Steriods).

Lots of paint keeps out the salt. I have a second hand refurbished 4.5m long 144MHz Yagi I got six months ago waiting to go up. I took it apart and polished all the corrosion off. 3 coats of exterior varnish. It still looks new now after 6months lying on shed roof. Now as soon as the temperature rises, wind drops and rain stops I'll be on the chimney.

I got a broken Sat motor of Tony (NOT a Motek!) and replaced the curved arm with a straight pipe. The controller was dead, so removed it and fitted a 2 core cable to motor in series with both diode paralleled limit switches.

It does only +/- 45 degrees. I'll fit it on my azimuth 360 degree rotator and then it will do elevation from -10 to +80. I have an old minature B&W ccd minature security camera I'll mount on it. Then with a center off two pole rocker switch I can tilt the new aerial up/down. Software will tell me Moon Azimuth.

Put moon in middle of TV screen and then I can listen for Transatlantic or Asian moonbounce signals. A guy in Cork has communicated to every continent this way, only something like 8 miuntes for moon simulatously visible near horison in New Zealand and Ireland.

You use WSJT DSP software on a PC soundcard connected to a 144MHz SSB receiver or scanner to listen.

The 4.5m long aerial should be big enough to hear 100W or 200W stations in America.

It's the ultimate in long distance passive Satellite communications.

c ashelmore

Ok,that helps a lot.So I obviously need 2 dishes as Hispasat and Astra are far too far apart to receive simultaneously on a static dish! I am waiting on a smaller dish and receiver from Maplin(€130) since Dec 8. I will try to get 13e,16e,19.e and 28.2e on multibracket initially to see if I can manage that! Then I will try to motorise.

watty

You can't get 16E this way. There isn't space betweeen the 13E and 19E LNBs.

Typically on 70cm to 90cm dish the minimum physical spacing gives about 4 or 5 degrees(Feed horns touching). 6 Degrees (13E and 19E) is a very small gap between feed horns.

A motek motor is only 100 Euro. Then just one LNB.

I do have both systems.
1) 13E,19E(on arm) and 28E (quad) on a fixed 80cm dish.
2) 80cm dish on a Motek motor. About 20 Satellites from 50W to 42E (real azimuths are different as I am at 8W approx)

I also have a separate fixed dish for moving by hand, currently at 15W.


I have tried FIVE LNBs on a fixed Dish. 10, 13, 16, 19 and 28E. Results terriable. I was only able at all because two LNBs had small horns and two used palstic spikes instead of horns.

I have a neighbour with a 1.2m fixed dish on a southish wall. His F/D of dish gives nearly twice the LNB spacing for same angle. He could easily do this (He has only 13E and 19E on it and a separate Minidish for Sky).

Zaphod

c ashelmore wrote:

This site also helped:- http://www.satmax.co.nz/?page=tech&techpage=triax_mounting.php
This gives 20- 55 degrees .If you turn the U-block upsidedown it will give 5 - 40 degrees.

The highest elevation for Ireland is about the 30 degree mark for 8W, so 5-40 would be better. If it's attached to a Diseqc motor, it doesn't matter much either way.

c ashelmore

With help from Aertech communications these appear to be suitable aerials for Irish tv reception in the Naas area using Kippure transmitter.(South Kildare could also use Mt.Leinster. 2 separate aerials are required for reception of RTE signals

The Kathrein AV06 picks up VHF i.e. RTE 1 & RTE 2 (Horizontal)
The Kathrein AON65 picks up UHF i.e. TV 3 & TG 4 (Vertical?)
RTE 1 VHF B III 183.25 MHz
RTE 2 VHF B III 207.25 MHz
TV 3 UHF B IV 799.25 MHz
TG 4 UHF B IV 775.25 MHz

These two aerials can then be combined with a VHF/ UHF combiner before being fed down into the TV.

Antenna

c ashelmore wrote:

The Kathrein AON65 picks up UHF i.e. TV 3 & TG 4 (Vertical?)

no, UHF is Horizontal from Kippure, just as that aerial is in the picture here!

http://eo.fegime.com/shopDetail.jsp?id=3810309

c ashelmore

Ok, I put up the 1.1 dish today,though I'm a bit surprised by the amount of bounce in the arm and the fact that LNB holder can move in the arm slot,-it's a push fit.I got a Sky box from my inlaws attic(being converted),5 years old but don't think it was ever used.Set the elevation for 21.3 and with the help of a sat finder from Lidl it was pretty straighforward.Signal quality is near 100 % .Having read the posts I though a dummy card in the slot would give me some channels however it justs tells me there is a problem with card or not inserted fully. Am I missing the obvious?

watty

Wrong satellite.Try next easterly sat meter peak. Alwasys adjust meter to just below half scale.

A 1.1 meter dish will very nearly get 25 satellites, some only 3 degrees apart.

It will work even with no card. BTW, you don't anything like as big as that for Sky. You might even get some 1W and 5E Nordic beams on that. (not found at all on my 80cm dish).

c ashelmore

Thanks Watty. I should have said that I appeared to be on the right sat as I was getting the Sky logo ,time etc. Later I did try 101 and got bbc1 and also some others but no channel listings,it just keeps on searching when I go to All Programmes. Perhaps the obvious is that the box may be indeed faulty and not brand new as I was told.(only the accessories were unopened.)

mjsmyth

I used to be able to get 1w on my 80cm dish in Kildare. for some reason I can't get it anymore............

MJ

watty

New Satellites with different beams. I only get the Polish Edusat, some pay TV channels and some feeds reliably. A few other channels drift in and out.


Maybe a Sky Digibox on 28e in Ireland with a 1.1M dish is overloaded. Try a wet cloth over the LNB and see what happens

c ashelmore

That trick cut the signal quality to 50% but unfortunately didn't bring up the epg. Since then I've been trying to force a software download and last night finally did it the right way! For those who don't know here's the plan: Pull mains lead out of Skybox,press and hold backup button ON THE BOX;push lead back in,wait till BOTH lights come on in box ,let go button,wait at least 10 minutes. Software version has gone from v2.. to v3.. So now I know epg is not tied to card and my box works fine!

c ashelmore

Well at last I have set up the triax 1.1 with multibracket,but not cabled yet.If the sky box was easy to set up this was a nightmare.I used a Fortec lifetime classic receiver. I pointed the dish at what I hoped was 16o and scanned... and scanned... Eventually after changing the elevation to nowhere near what it should have been I got a signal.(The pole is vertical)Unfortunately the box was telling me I was getting both Sirius and Hotbird!Eventually I did get 16o with the help of Lynsat.Fortunately I had a narrower lnb(Inverto) for the centre so I managed to squeeze in 13o and 190 on either side.(Why do Irish suppliers sell this multibracket if they dont sell the correct lnbs,ie.triax or alps,?) When I tried to add 28.2o I found that the bracket was not long enough,thus had to add on 2 inches to mount the lnb.At the other (east) end there was room to pick up Sirius at 5o.So you will get only 20o range from this bracket without modification.Note the pivot hole is not central;mount it to give max movement.ie.west side right up,this will bring one of the lnbs(here at 16o) over to normal central position.
Five lnbs,including a quad,are heavy,50% more than the 1.1kg limit,so I added 2 metal strips from half-way up the lnb arm to the dish to ease the load.I also drilled and bolted the lnb holder as it was a pushfit with far too much play.Note it is very hard to get the lnb arm bolted tightly so it wont move.On my final fit I overtighted and stripped the treads! After you have finished crying take off the arm,drill out treads from dish bracket and drop in bolt through gap,manoeuvre in arm and bolt,hold bottom with vicegrips and tighten.Otherwise disassemble dish!
Conclusions:Without a proper meter this is still do-able but with a lot of trouble.This Triax dish is flimsy,Changing elevation is not easy and means lifting or dropping the whole dish.Even with everything fully tightened there is considerably "give" in wind,from pole ,T brackets and dish itself,You will not get it rock solid.Fortec box not easy to use,skips over some frequencies,not obvious how to add freq.only modify.Get at least one narrow lnb.You could have 7 lnbs on this multibracket,but very heavy!.

byte

c ashelmore wrote:

Fortec box not easy to use,skips over some frequencies,not obvious how to add freq.only modify.

Is there not an option for Network Scan or Network Search? This method should add in frequencies of transponders that may not be listed in your box.

The OP

c ashelmore wrote:

First post so forgive me if I err! Having decided to ditch Chorous here in Naas (no French ,Spanish, channels) I set out on the path of learning all about Sat from scratch.Have spent 2 months reading guides & forums and now realise that I need a least another month.However I have chosen Grid aerial for Irish channels plus dish.Initially I wanted Motorised but now realise that you can only watch one Sat at a time, ie the kids would also have to watch it also. So I have gone for a mutibracket for 4 LNBs.First visit was too Zin...k in Tallagh.Only go there if you know exactly what you want! Everything is locked away so you can't handle anything for weight,etc. Triax bracket cost e45, a bit pricey,next time I'd go to satellite.ie.
Bought a dish,Triax TD 110 in Antenna electronics in Ardara when I went back to Donegal at Christmas.It cost €120,not a bad price I think.Twin Lnb cost €69.If you are going there phone to make sure someone will be there.They have some stuff on display,including the 1224 Supermount for €180 which I couldn't source anywhere else.Next post will be on the problems in assemblying this dish!

WTF is wrong with you? Months of research????? lol. Just call SKY - like, DUH!!!

Tony

The OP wrote:

WTF is wrong with you? Months of research????? lol. Just call SKY - like, DUH!!!

How would calling sky give the guy the info he needed?

St Senan

I agree with Tony how would calling sky give the guy info on multibrackets and triax equipment. DUH!!!!

Tony

WTF is wrong with him?

The OP

Tony wrote:

How would calling sky give the guy the info he needed?

SKY will install and set up satellite TV for him. Eh, DUH! Why mess around with it yourself (when he obviously doesn't know what to do) when you can just call a qualified installer?
lol - I can't believe this guy spent months researching this, when he could just have called 08702 404040.

c ashelmore

Oops! Time to close this thread I think. My aim at the start was to prove that is possible to begin with knowing nothing about satellite reception and still be able to progress, by reading this forum, to installing your own system.In the long run it will save me money and besides it will get me the stations I want.
There doesn't appear to be an option for Network Scan on the fortec classic.
Before I finish,does this sound ok re number of cables for the following scenario?
Choice of 4 sats in sitting room plus sky fta in kids room=3 single lnbs +1 twin + 4way disecq switch +fta box + sky(or fta) box requires 2 cables.
If you want to record while watching a different station =3 twin +1 quad lnb +2 4way disecq switches +2 fta boxes + sky boxes requires 3 cable run.
Add another cable if you want to view on Pc. or daisy chain from one of the boxes?
Run another cable if you want to install motorised dish later giving total cables to sitting room =4 and one to kids room.
Thanks everyone for your help.

St Senan

The OP wrote:

SKY will install and set up satellite TV for him.
Eh, DUH! Why mess around with it yourself (when he obviously doesn't know what to do) when you can just call a qualified installer lol - I can't believe this guy spent months researching this, when he could just have called 08702 404040.

Maybe he dont want Sky they will only set him up with sky digital and a monthly bill. If you are refering to Sky as having qualified installers then he will be getting installed from a company called Sierra which we all know about here. It would be cheaper to ring sky on an Irish no like 0818719819

watty

The OP wrote:

SKY will install and set up satellite TV for him. Eh, DUH! Why mess around with it yourself (when he obviously doesn't know what to do) when you can just call a qualified installer?
lol - I can't believe this guy spent months researching this, when he could just have called 08702 404040.

Not for loads of free Spanish, French German etc which is what he wants.

Not for 3 or for satellite receivers on one dish looking at different satellites.

Sky ONLY do a standard Pay TV install, they don't know anything about anything else or anything other than a script on their own standard Paytv setup.

Tony

The OP wrote:

SKY will install and set up satellite TV for him. Eh, DUH! Why mess around with it yourself (when he obviously doesn't know what to do) when you can just call a qualified installer?
lol - I can't believe this guy spent months researching this, when he could just have called 08702 404040.

they will not set up the equipment he was looking for and phoning sky will not give him the information he needed, if you read the thread you might have realised this instead of diving in with both feet with the "WTF" comment.
He may not have known what to do to start with but it seems he is doing alright with some help from the information hes gained along the way

It seems you have not done any research since 08702 cannot be dialled from here (its a Uk number)

If i were were you i'd get that shovel out of your hand, when your in a hole its a good idea to stop digging

snaps

enjoyed reading this thread. Takes me back to when I made the plunge and set up my 1st systems, way back in the glorious BSB/d2mac days! Great to see what can be learnt from reading forums like this one.

Tony

snaps wrote:

enjoyed reading this thread. Takes me back to when I made the plunge and set up my 1st systems, way back in the glorious BSB/d2mac days! Great to see what can be learnt from reading forums like this one.

Indeed, the BSB squarial was the first dish I ever set up and started me along the road. Had it on the back of a directors chair pointing out a window, lost signal every time it rained heavily:)