Waterford Bans Cycling

rob1891

... in city parks ...

So I've read you had signs up before banning cycling from parks. My understanding of these signs in Wicklow is that without a by-law they are meaningless. Well now Waterford City has the by-laws and the signs so you are all going to hell if you let your children ride their bicycles in the City's parks.

Any insight as to the problem the council have with bicycles in parks? Are they a safe place for children to get some exercise or a haven for good-for-nothings and ne'er-do-wells who get their kicks from jumping two-wheel'd off benches and over small grannies??

Rob


forgot the link!

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0110/waterford.html

merlante

rob1891 wrote:

... in city parks ...

So I've read you had signs up before banning cycling from parks. My understanding of these signs in Wicklow is that without a by-law they are meaningless. Well now Waterford City has the by-laws and the signs so you are all going to hell if you let your children ride their bicycles in the City's parks.

Any insight as to the problem the council have with bicycles in parks? Are they a safe place for children to get some exercise or a haven for good-for-nothings and ne'er-do-wells who get their kicks from jumping two-wheel'd off benches and over small grannies??

Rob


forgot the link!

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0110/waterford.html

I think if people only used bikes for cycling around there wouldn't be a problem. But the skaters/BMX types are causing a lot of damage to benches, etc., which they use as obstacles to do stunts on.

The council have sunk a fair bit of cash in to the park over the past few years and they are about to sink a lot more in to it, so they obviously want to keep the place in good nick.

rob1891

merlante wrote:

I think if people only used bikes for cycling around there wouldn't be a problem. But the skaters/BMX types are causing a lot of damage to benches, etc., which they use as obstacles to do stunts on.

The council have sunk a fair bit of cash in to the park over the past few years and they are about to sink a lot more in to it, so they obviously want to keep the place in good nick.

That's a pitty. I've seen dedicated public areas for skaters/BMX on the continent but councils here seem afraid to build these for various reasons that I can guess at. They're a great place to sit down and spectate.

Anyway, hopefully parents won't be discouraged from bringing their children out to the park for a bit of exercise on their bikes. It's where I first learned to cycle, and most people too I imagine.

Freddie59

merlante wrote:

I think if people only used bikes for cycling around there wouldn't be a problem. But the skaters/BMX types are causing a lot of damage to benches, etc., which they use as obstacles to do stunts on.

The council have sunk a fair bit of cash in to the park over the past few years and they are about to sink a lot more in to it, so they obviously want to keep the place in good nick.

Quire right. And bikes are the most overlooked item when safety is considered. How many of you have nearly collided with unlit bikes at night like I have? Why are bikes allowed to be sold without lights? A by-law should be introduced to ensure they all light up - and that they can be pulled (even during daylight hours) if the bike has no lights fitted. Grrrrrr!:mad:

merlante

rob1891 wrote:

That's a pitty. I've seen dedicated public areas for skaters/BMX on the continent but councils here seem afraid to build these for various reasons that I can guess at. They're a great place to sit down and spectate.

Anyway, hopefully parents won't be discouraged from bringing their children out to the park for a bit of exercise on their bikes. It's where I first learned to cycle, and most people too I imagine.

They did build a skatepark, in consultation with skaters, at a time when skateparks all over the country were being shut down because of insurance costs. WCC have been very proactive, for all the respect they have gained by it. Not sure if the skatepark is still open.

And yes, I learned to cycle in the park.

meldrew

They have signs all over the park saying No Cycling which are widely ignored as are the "Dogs must be kept on leads at all times " signs , I think it is more dangerous to have unleashed dogs roaming around the park rather than cyclists , and if you say anything to the owners all you get is the usual answer " He wont go near you "

peepsbates

merlante wrote:

They did build a skatepark, in consultation with skaters, at a time when skateparks all over the country were being shut down because of insurance costs. WCC have been very proactive, for all the respect they have gained by it. Not sure if the skatepark is still open.

And yes, I learned to cycle in the park.

as far as i know it wasnt in consultation with skaters, it was put there to shut young people up and from what i hear around it wasnt planned properly at all i.e. ramps,rails ect in the wrong place

merlante

meldrew wrote:

They have signs all over the park saying No Cycling which are widely ignored as are the "Dogs must be kept on leads at all times " signs , I think it is more dangerous to have unleashed dogs roaming around the park rather than cyclists , and if you say anything to the owners all you get is the usual answer " He wont go near you "

People who think that dogs should be on leashes at all times should be put on a leash themselves and see how they like it. Dogs need to "run", and if you don't have a huge garden, which most people don't, then the parks are the only places to let them off. I'm not saying that owners shouldn't clean up after them, but the animals should be allowed to go for a run.

People are too precious with their kids these days and end up making them scared ****less of dogs and other animals, which are harmless.

rant over.

merlante

peepsbates wrote:

as far as i know it wasnt in consultation with skaters, it was put there to shut young people up and from what i hear around it wasnt planned properly at all i.e. ramps,rails ect in the wrong place

They say it was. I'm inclined to believe them too. They just exposed the big problem with consulting with teenagers. Fashion changes overnight, the guys you were talking to 3 years ago are now off in college somewhere or pushing drugs. Nobody remembers the chat you had with the skaters, just a few years ago, and all of the plans/ideas that were discussed and implemented. And it turns out that those guys you talked to weren't "real" skaters anyway, and lost interest 3 months later. Then all of a sudden the next generation of indignant, erstwhile skaters have nurtured a whole new "us against them" complex and boycot the skate park which was built by "the man" -- all those years ago!

Most councils actually don't build things to shut young people up: normally they just ignore them completely until they get to an age where they won't change their mind every 2 months with every passing fad.

karma police

<rant>
off topic but how often do you see dog owners letting their little pet 'run free' long enough to soil the paths and play areas and then are called back to be put on the leash thus allowing the owner to avoid cleaning up after themselves.

Nope. Dogs in public parks should be on leashes all the time. If people want to let little rover run free then take it out to the countryside.

On bikes in the park: a cycle area for children should be provided. Previous posters are right in suggesting that the park has always been a place for children to learn how to cycle.
It's just so typically absurd that we have a cycling track in the middle of a park in which people are not allowed to cycle.

Our city is a disgrace as far as cycling facilities are concerned. How on earth did we end up with a new ring road that has no cycling or pedestrian access for the next year or so? At times it seems that the whole planning process revolves around creating more opportunities for the 'builder who cares' to make more money.

BTW. The little skate park sucks.

</rant>

merlante

karma police wrote:

<rant>
off topic but how often do you see dog owners letting their little pet 'run free' long enough to soil the paths and play areas and then are called back to be put on the leash thus allowing the owner to avoid cleaning up after themselves.

Nope. Dogs in public parks should be on leashes all the time. If people want to let little rover run free then take it out to the countryside.
</rant>

You're obviously not a dog owner! Once again, I am not arguing against you that owners should not clean up after their dogs, whether they are on the lead or not. That's a given. I am talking about giving the animal the exercise that it requires. Only in a public, open space can this happen: the park being perfect. (unless you are rich and have a huge garden.

As for your comments on bringing the dog out the country; where out the country? Roads are dangerous, and getting more dangerous. Every public space, including beaches like Woodstown, afaik, have the same rules are the people's park: i.e. no dogs off the lead. You can't legally trespass on a farmers land, either, to walk your dog. Plus the fact that you may not have a car anyway, and therefore may have to rely on the amenities of the city.

I don't know why people have a sudden antipathy toward dogs -- I accept the fouling issue though -- dogs have been let off the lead in parks since time immemorial and there has very rarely been any problem. (I'd be more worried about some of the humans that are roaming wild in the people's park sometimes, as opposed to the dogs)

It is quite simply cruel to never take a dog off the lead and let it run. Saying that this shouldn't be done in public parks is tantamount to saying that people shouldn't have dogs in the city, imho.

karma police

Bring the dog on the Kenneally's bus and let him run free in ferrybank

peepsbates

merlante wrote:

They say it was. I'm inclined to believe them too. They just exposed the big problem with consulting with teenagers. Fashion changes overnight, the guys you were talking to 3 years ago are now off in college somewhere or pushing drugs. Nobody remembers the chat you had with the skaters, just a few years ago, and all of the plans/ideas that were discussed and implemented. And it turns out that those guys you talked to weren't "real" skaters anyway, and lost interest 3 months later. Then all of a sudden the next generation of indignant, erstwhile skaters have nurtured a whole new "us against them" complex and boycot the skate park which was built by "the man" -- all those years ago!

Most councils actually don't build things to shut young people up: normally they just ignore them completely until they get to an age where they won't change their mind every 2 months with every passing fad.

fashion may change overnight but skating dont, a badly built skate park will not suddenly become good overnight and how do u define real skaters? the ppl im tlkin about r still skating not pushin drugs as u rekon

merlante

peepsbates wrote:

fashion may change overnight but skating dont, a badly built skate park will not suddenly become good overnight and how do u define real skaters? the ppl im tlkin about r still skating not pushin drugs as u rekon

"in college somewhere or pushing drugs" I said! :mad: I was trying to imply that they have probably moved on. :rolleyes:

Here's the deal, I don't see 30 yr olds on skateboards. There may be 30 yr old skaters, but most are around 16. The majority always seem 16 at any given time, so unless skaters have the gift of eternal youth, they give up skating after a few years. Hence it is a teenage phenomenon and is subject to the vagaries of teenage whimsy.

I would ask you how you define a good skatepark? Whoever the council talked to obviously thought it would be good. Is it because the obstacles in it are indestructible, unlike the benches on the Plaza, or that nothing in the park looks like civic art/amenities?

Bards

It obviously would have been a lot cheaper to put in a few benches similar to the ones on the Plaza and that should have been enough for you.

Instead the City council went to the bother of

1.) Consulting with Skaters

2.) Taking on board their ideas and opinions

3.) Built the park accordingly with ramps etc... costing lot more than simple benches etc.

4.) and you now have the cheek to say that the park is no good!!!!

What do you want in a park.. I have not heard from any skaters in the past year who have com on here and explain to the rest of us mere mortals what exactly would make a GOOD park

peepsbates

Bards wrote:

It obviously would have been a lot cheaper to put in a few benches similar to the ones on the Plaza and that should have been enough for you.

Instead the City council went to the bother of

1.) Consulting with Skaters

2.) Taking on board their ideas and opinions

3.) Built the park accordingly with ramps etc... costing lot more than simple benches etc.

4.) and you now have the cheek to say that the park is no good!!!!

What do you want in a park.. I have not heard from any skaters in the past year who have com on here and explain to the rest of us mere mortals what exactly would make a GOOD park

i never said the park was no good i said ive heard from ppl that i know who skate a lot that the park was not designed properly and no i dont agree with the fact that the plaza is being used as a skatepark i dont condone destroying public property

AdMMM

peepsbates wrote:

as far as i know it wasnt in consultation with skaters, it was put there to shut young people up and from what i hear around it wasnt planned properly at all i.e. ramps,rails ect in the wrong place

Yes it was. I remember there was a Waterford skating site a few years back going under the moniker of "TheGrind". It's owner and the sites community were consulted about what should be in the skate park although I know the Council had always had a fixed location i.e Cork Rd and that was one of the things that wasn't really agreed on.

professore

merlante wrote:

People who think that dogs should be on leashes at all times should be put on a leash themselves and see how they like it. Dogs need to "run", and if you don't have a huge garden, which most people don't, then the parks are the only places to let them off. I'm not saying that owners shouldn't clean up after them, but the animals should be allowed to go for a run.

People are too precious with their kids these days and end up making them scared ****less of dogs and other animals, which are harmless.

rant over.

If you had your 3-year old knocked over needing 18 stitches in her head by a young playful greyhound then you might have a different view.

IMHO it is cruel to keep a large dog in a small garden.

Don't get me wrong - I LIKE dogs - but letting them run wild in areas with small kids is irresponsible.

Freddie59

katrien_ie wrote:

If you had your 3-year old knocked over needing 18 stitches in her head by a young playful greyhound then you might have a different view.

IMHO it is cruel to keep a large dog in a small garden.

Children especially (and humans) must at all times have preference over dumb animals (and their dumb owners). One guy where I live has two very large dogs in a housing estate in a back garden measuring 8m x 2m approx. The dogs never appear to be exercised and spend their entire time barking (the poor animals are probably both bored and lonely).

You can't blame the dogs - only their moronic owners.:mad: :mad:

meldrew

Freddie59 wrote:

Children especially (and humans) must at all times have preference over dumb animals (and their dumb owners). One guy where I live has two very large dogs in a housing estate in a back garden measuring 8m x 2m approx. The dogs never appear to be exercised and spend their entire time barking (the poor animals are probably both bored and lonely).

You can't blame the dogs - only their moronic owners.:mad: :mad:

Totally agree , what makes me laugh is the idiots with the rotweilers , doberman , alastians etc who pay a fortune for their brutes just so they look macho when they take them out for walks !
I actually had one moron tell me he could read his dogs mind when I challenged him about his unleashed and unmuzzled alastian!

Freddie59

meldrew wrote:

Totally agree , what makes me laugh is the idiots with the rotweilers , doberman , alastians etc who pay a fortune for their brutes just so they look macho when they take them out for walks !
I actually had one moron tell me he could read his dogs mind when I challenged him about his unleashed and unmuzzled alastian!

Easy to see which was the more intelligent of the two. But you're right - it IS a macho thing. The guy I'm talking about doesn't even exercise the animals. Just thrown out the back all day and night. Can't paint them all the same I suppose. Another chap owns a boxer and the dog is beautiful, very well behaved, and regularly exercised. A pleasure to meet them both. All other owners could take note.;)