Umaga Retires

Snickers Man

The ugliest skipper in New Zealand's history (and believe me, that's a title won in the face of some pretty fierce competition) has bogged off into retirement.

Good riddance!!

He was never that good anyway. When he was surrounded by top players he could use his strength to exploit gaps others made. His World Cup record is pretty crap. Missed last one through injury, was one of the chief culprits of New Zealand's collapse in the one before that.

And that's what the Kiwis said at the time.

CJhaughey

Snickers Man wrote:

When he was surrounded by top players he could use his strength to exploit gaps others made. His World Cup record is pretty crap. Missed last one through injury, was one of the chief culprits of New Zealand's collapse in the one before that.

Leaving aside the petty nature of the initial post , I wonder if you actually know what a rugby player is supposed to do?
Is a centres job not to exploit gaps that others have made? and using your strength to do so is part of the game called Rugby union unless I am mistaken.

Snickers Man

Yup. He was pretty much a stereotype of the professional game. Command of all the basic skills. Huge. Fast. Strong. Tough. Ruthless.

Pretty much the same as any one of dozens of muscle-bound meat heads from all the big countries.

If you're saying he was a bog-standard centre who could do pretty much what any other bog standard centre with the basic level of skills could do, only he happened to be surrounded by colleagues of a much higher calibre than most......then I tend to agree.


Who's going to replace him? Perhaps Ma'a Nonu. Another muscle-bound clone.

But what's uplifting about that?

When the heat came on against France in 1999 Umaga melted.

Don't like him. Don't have to. So no apologies.

Liam90

come on, you keep thinking about the tackle. Tana retires a legend and if you seriously think he wasn't that good, well then you are seriously one of the stupidest people i have ever talked to.

hawkmoon269

Well Tana has been a great player. I wish him well, I really do. And I really don't want to bang on about the incident. These things happen in rugby. But it DID happen. Having said that I've almost completely forgotten about the whole thing. So really no bad blood. Having said that, it DID happen. etc, etc

hawkmoon269

Snickers Man wrote:

muscle-bound meat heads

I think maybe you meant to say 'well trained committed professionals'.

CJhaughey

I really don't get the point you are making Snickers man.
Is it that in your opinion Umaga wasn't good enough for the job and you are glad to see him go?
or is it that you just have a thing against him for spearing BOD?
Tana Umaga isn't Huge 1.87m and 100kg isn't that big by international centre standards.
I just find it hard to reconcile your soccer-like comments on a rugby board.
You seem determined to drag the image of a rugby fan down to a lower level.
As Liam90 says above many others see him as a legend.
Interestingly Ireland is the one country he never scored against in his career.

Sangre

I'm sure Tana won't be too bothered by your comments. He'll just be respected for life in NZ and other nations.

Eazzzy

Does this mean I wont be able to shout abuse at him when New Zealand come to Lansdowne.:mad: :mad:

CJhaughey

Eazzzy wrote:

Does this mean I wont be able to shout abuse at him when New Zealand come to Lansdowne.:mad: :mad:

You mean when New Zealand played here back in November?

Snickers Man

CJhaughey wrote:

I really don't get the point you are making Snickers man.
Is it that in your opinion Umaga wasn't good enough for the job and you are glad to see him go?
or is it that you just have a thing against him for spearing BOD?

I didn't mention that. I just said I didn't like him.

hawkmoon269 wrote:

I think maybe you meant to say 'well trained committed professionals'.

If that's the template for 'well trained committed professional' then God help the game.

Call me an old-fashioned romantic but I like the idea of small, fast, skillful players (or at least smaller faster more skilfull players) using their wits to out do larger players who are trying to kill them. Give me Mike Gibson, Keith Crossan, Phillippe Bernat-Salles, Grant Batty, Shane Williams or Gerald Davies any day over mammoths like Damien Traille, Ma'a Nonu, Kevin Maggs, Mike Tindall, Scott Gibbs etc etc.

And as for the Irish equivalents Maggs, Danaher, etc etc Lordy Lordy

Tana Umaga isn't Huge 1.87m and 100kg isn't that big by international centre standards.

That's 6ft 1 and 15.5 stone in old money. He would have been a prop forward 30 years ago.

I just find it hard to reconcile your soccer-like comments on a rugby board.
You seem determined to drag the image of a rugby fan down to a lower level.

What soccer-like comments? That he's ugly?

He is ugly. Very ugly. There is a long-standing tradition in rugby of pointing out the hideousness of opposing players' countenances.

I remember Gareth Chilcott (now he's a guy who could give Umaga a run for his money in the Pulchritude Stakes) running a competition during one of the world cups to find the ugliest club player in Britain.

Interestingly Ireland is the one country he never scored against in his career.

How many times did he play against Ireland? Did he ever?

Liam90

snickers how old are you? because you seem to be stuck in the 70s

kermitdfrog

What nonsense.

Umaga is/was a class player - a bish-bosh Kevin Maggs player he most certainly was not. If you need proof watch the Lions games from last year again. Muscle bound meat head with little skill? You only highlight your own ignorance.

Umaga was a complete centre - great passer, great runner, great reader of the game, strong, quick, big tackler. Only thing he couldnt do was kick.

Sangre

Snickers Man wrote:

Call me an old-fashioned romantic but I like the idea of small, fast, skillful players (or at least smaller faster more skilfull players) using their wits to out do larger players who are trying to kill them. Give me Mike Gibson, Keith Crossan, Phillippe Bernat-Salles, Grant Batty, Shane Williams or Gerald Davies any day over mammoths like Damien Traille, Ma'a Nonu, Kevin Maggs, Mike Tindall, Scott Gibbs etc etc.

That's 6ft 1 and 15.5 stone in old money. He would have been a prop forward 30 years ago.

Yeah and 30 years ago there was no world cup or professional game. Join this century Snickers. If you can be fast and skillful why not big, fast and skillful?

Snickers Man

Liam90 wrote:

snickers how old are you? because you seem to be stuck in the 70s

I remember the 70s well. That doesn't mean to say I'm stuck in them. But I will be frank, I much preferred the shape of the Old Union game before they fecked about with the 'use it or lose it' laws and turned it into rugby feckin league. All at the behest of the Australians who were the only people in the world, outside of a few cloth-capped troglodytes in the North of England, who preferred rugby league to the Union Game.

The older game had a bit more space, more room and was a game for players of all shapes and sizes.

Today, well you can still play if you're small but you've got to be seriously good because there is less space, less room to manouevre and more big fellas eager to squash you into the dirt.

Some can still manage it. One of my all time favourite memories is the diminutive Phillippe Bernat-Salles finishing off New Zealand in the 1999 semifinal with a breathtaking chase down field to outpace Jeff Wilson to the ball after some ham-fisted dreadlocked mutt playing in the centre for New Zealand (name eludes me for the moment) had dropped the ball during yet another inept attempt at chasing the game.

Look. I'm only going by what I saw. I don't watch the Super 12/14/NPC. I don't remember Umaga playing against Ireland all that much. I remember World Cup 99 and the Lions Tour when, to be frank, the Lions were so out classed that it was difficult for any one player, apart maybe from Carter, to stand out among the All Blacks.

And I don't like the All Blacks. No point rationalising why I don't. I just don't. I like to see them lose. Doesn't happen very ofen but it's great when it does. And I hope, ancient though I am, to live long enough to see Ireland do it to them. Just once.

As Shakespeare put it 'When they seldom come, they wished for come and nothing pleaseth like rare accidents.'

There. How's that for soccer-like comments?.

Eazzzy

CJhaughey wrote:

You mean when New Zealand played here back in November?

No you idiot Landsdowne is a stadium in Batoua where Ireland will be playing against New Zealand as they tour the Southern Hemisphere and guess who got tickets.

legspin

Snickers Man wrote:

But I will be frank, I much preferred the shape of the Old Union game before they fecked about with the 'use it or lose it' laws and turned it into rugby feckin league. All at the behest of the Australians who were the only people in the world, outside of a few cloth-capped troglodytes in the North of England, who preferred rugby league to the Union Game.

QUOTE]

I thought I was the only one who thought that. The game has changed a lot in the last 20 years or so and not always for the best. Not saying that it didn't have to in some ways, but look at all the mucking about there has been with the scrum, particularly in regards to the body positions and binding. I can pretty much guarantee that the law changes were not thought up by FRFs. (not that we ever did that much thinking anyway:p).

daveirl

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Jilm

daveirl wrote:

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Playing in Hamilton June 10, Auckland June 17.

daveirl

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CJhaughey

Eazzzy wrote:

No you idiot Landsdowne is a stadium in Batoua where Ireland will be playing against New Zealand as they tour the Southern Hemisphere and guess who got tickets.

Batoua?
WTF?
Never in my life heard of it.
edit.
I googled Batoua and found this http://uk.multimap.com/wi/230133.htm
now I wasn't aware that the Central African Republic was on the All blacks list of stadiums but hey I learn something new every day.

Mothman

Eazzzy wrote:

No you idiot Landsdowne is a stadium in Batoua where Ireland will be playing against New Zealand as they tour the Southern Hemisphere and guess who got tickets.

Well Lansdowne Park is in Blenheim, and if you look here, It's listed near bottom without a capacity listed, though I read elsewhere that it has a capacity of 15,000. It didn't indicate what if any was seated

IIRC, Blenheim is in the north part of South Island and I don't think it is very big, c30,000 population

daveirl

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RuggieBear

kiwi007 wrote:

Blah Blah Blah!

Please just **** off

NotWormBoy

Its not really the rule changes that have led to the change in players, its the fact that its a professional game these days. They get paid to train and play, its not just a very serious hobby. And they have a better chance in a much more competitive player market if they are muscle bound and still fit.

Lets say a fast big man comes up against a fast small man. Sure, either can take the other down, if done right, but odds are the big man will come out on top. Its simple physics. The stronger (often a result of size) the better chance you have to hand-off and opponent or simply run him over.

I can't talk about 20 years ago, being only a year or two older than that, but I can for the past 10. Its a more skillful game now, the passing and running has become faster and the game has changed a lot. Thats just what happens, in soccer, in rugby, hell, even in cricket, I'm sure.

All that said, I do have a soft spot for the small fast players out there, because I was always one myself, back when I used to try and play. Its just understandable how the game has tended towards bigger players.

daveirl

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Sangre

Look out for Tom Varndell (scored 4 tries for Leicester the other day) this guy has crazy pace.

Crash

Varndell and Habana are both terrifyingly fast - sure theres that link that was posted a while back to Habana's insane run up the inside to score a try - mental stuff.