Homeless in Dublin

jay-me

I was just wondering does anyone know is it extremely difficult or impossible for the homeless to regain a life of normality as in with a job and a roof over their heads and no longer homeless.

Rb

jay-me wrote:

I was just wondering does anyone know is it extremely difficult or impossible for the homeless to regain a life of normality as in with a job and a roof over their heads and no longer homeless.

yes.

jay-me

Uh-huh and what exactly do you mean by "YES" impossible or extremely difficult and how if possible what steps would you reckon they can take?

johnnyrotten

Yep

meditraitor

jay-me wrote:

I was just wondering does anyone know is it extremely difficult or impossible for the homeless to regain a life of normality as in with a job and a roof over their heads and no longer homeless.

Yes, but only if your white and irish, immigrant minorities dont find it hard to be housed and taken care of!

KTRIC

Exactly

jay-me

meditraitor wrote:

Yes, but only if your white and irish, immigrant minorities dont find it hard to be housed and taken care of!

Yeah I can bet but is it at all possible and what steps can be taken?

Repli

I'd say if they put some effort in they could get their lives back on track.. but I think most of them are on crack/are alcoholics/etc

meditraitor

jay-me wrote:

Yeah I can bet but is it at all possible and what steps can be taken?

Check out this site dude, some good info

http://www.dubsimon.ie/

Rb

jay-me wrote:

Uh-huh and what exactly do you mean by "YES" impossible or extremely difficult and how if possible what steps would you reckon they can take?

These steps?

Rb

or these steps?

connundrum

rb_ie wrote:

These steps?

Agh damn.. I think I'm just too slow to be a real smartarse How bout these steps though?! http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18625011.900

MorningStar

meditraitor wrote:

Yes, but only if your white and irish, immigrant minorities dont find it hard to be housed and taken care of!

THe difference being we can be prosecuted by european law if we don't take care of the asylum seekers.

Another huge factor is that the majority of the Irish homless have sunstance abuse problems.

It also has to be noted that there is now a growing problem of Polish homless people in Dublin who are getting as little help as the Irish people.

It isn't true to say imigrants get more it is just ignorance to say so the closest thing to complain about is asylum seekers who don't get free houses contry to popular beliefs.

The up shot of it is homless Irish people aren't just poor and have no place to live in general. Deeply disturbed and/or susbstance dependent. THe majority are men and due to poor housing regulation constantly at the end of the list. THis has been changed and will improve as a result.

Anybody who then blames people for being an addict may also take note that most addictions are a reaction to other problems the worst problems can result in the worst addictions.

Rb

MorningStar wrote:

THe difference being we can be prosecuted by european law if we don't take care of the asylum seekers.

Another huge factor is that the majority of the Irish homless have sunstance abuse problems.

It also has to be noted that there is now a growing problem of Polish homless people in Dublin who are getting as little help as the Irish people.

It isn't true to say imigrants get more it is just ignorance to say so the closest thing to complain about is asylum seekers who don't get free houses contry to popular beliefs.

The up shot of it is homless Irish people aren't just poor and have no place to live in general. Deeply disturbed and/or susbstance dependent. THe majority are men and due to poor housing regulation constantly at the end of the list. THis has been changed and will improve as a result.

Anybody who then blames people for being an addict may also take note that most addictions are a reaction to other problems the worst problems can result in the worst addictions.

www.spellcheck.net ?

godtabh

MorningStar wrote:

THe difference being we can be prosecuted by european law if we don't take care of the asylum seekers.

Another huge factor is that the majority of the Irish homless have sunstance abuse problems.

It also has to be noted that there is now a growing problem of Polish homless people in Dublin who are getting as little help as the Irish people.

It isn't true to say imigrants get more it is just ignorance to say so the closest thing to complain about is asylum seekers who don't get free houses contry to popular beliefs.

The up shot of it is homless Irish people aren't just poor and have no place to live in general. Deeply disturbed and/or susbstance dependent. THe majority are men and due to poor housing regulation constantly at the end of the list. THis has been changed and will improve as a result.

Anybody who then blames people for being an addict may also take note that most addictions are a reaction to other problems the worst problems can result in the worst addictions.

My under standing of the law is that asylum seekers have to be housed by the government till there application is judged? If the pass they can work and pay their way. If they dont they are sent home. Is this corect in simple terms?

My feeling is that you should look after your own and then worry about the rest. The problem of homeless Irish people should've been sorted out a long time ago and we should be in the position that regardless if your Irish or from some other country that if you cant support your self you should be looked after.

How this is done I dont know but it should be.

Dave!

rb_ie wrote:

www.spellcheck.net ?

Stop posting crap, it's a genuine thread

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=304451

meditraitor

meditraitor wrote:

Check out this site dude, some good info

http://www.dubsimon.ie/

And also here>http://www.mqi.ie/DS_Homeless.htm

monroe

I did a stint in a shelter in Dublin for a while and there were a number of foreign nationals who were staying there. In all those cases they had been working but had developed drink problems since they came to Ireland. One rather sadly described it as 'trying to fit it' which made me a tad ashamed.

There are a number of older Irish homeless aswell for whom the prospects of work really isnt that good. For the younger ones I think almost every case I saw was substance abuse. If they could get that in check then all the help in the links above would be open to them.

There are some sucess stories though..

Rb

DaveMcG wrote:

Stop posting crap, it's a genuine thread

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=304451

.... ?

jay-me

Thanx for all the legitimate responses I am currently researching the above topic in order to create substantial evidence that it is indeed possible to overcome homelessness.

stevenmu

There was a homeless guy on the radio a while back as part of some campaign to get more services for homeless people. Some TD or counciller came on and listed off a load of services available, various housing and hostel schemes, job placement and training etc. Turned out the guy complaining of a lack of services admitted to having been on all of them at one stage or another and was kicked out for substance abuse related problems. It was amazing to listen to the guy listing off all the chances he'd been given a job and put up in accomodation, or put up in accomodation and given training so he could apply for a job and he f**ked it up himself by turning up to work drunk/high or not turning up at all or arriving back at accomodation and causing 'disturbances'.

There probably could and should be more/better services in place, but the chances are there just some aren't taking them.

Rb

jay-me wrote:

Thanx for all the legitimate responses I am currently researching the above topic in order to create substantial evidence that it is indeed possible to overcome homelessness.

No problem, any time.

jay-me

The current plan is to get a friend to go homeless by choice on the streets of dublin for the time it takes him to get back into society.Ut will be documented by recording it on film throughout, it will give a greater understanding of the situation at large. For instance I have heard from sources on the street that begging can make over 100 euro in a day if indeed this happens to be the case i reckon it would be considerabley easier than previously thought by people at large.

meditraitor

jay-me wrote:

The current plan is to get a friend to go homeless by choice on the streets of dublin for the time it takes him to get back into society.Ut will be documented by recording it on film throughout, it will give a greater understanding of the situation at large. For instance I have heard from sources on the street that begging can make over 100 euro in a day if indeed this happens to be the case i reckon it would be considerabley easier than previously thought by people at large.

This idea is ridiculous, it wont work and will have no relevence to the prblems of homelessness in dublin..

jay-me

We'll see.
A lot of thought has been put into the project.

Flashling

From what I understand (from talking to various homeless people) is that they find it very hard to get a job, as they can provide no fixed address. Also, alot of people have the "It's their own fault they are homeless, stupid junkies" attitude, which doesn't help. As was pointed out, yes, alot of homeless people are addicts, but that can happen to someone from D4 just as easily as a homeless person, only they have the money for rehab.

Off topic, kind of, isn't it a bit scabby to be out there pretending that your friend is homeless, begging for money that would otherwise have gone to people who need it? And taking up precious hostel space?

meditraitor

jay-me wrote:

We'll see.
A lot of thought has been put into the project.

Well why dont you tell us why you think this idea is relevent, or have a positive outcome?

Come on, elaborate! Im interested in how you came to the conclusion that getting a mate to "go homeless" and see how long it takes to get back into society will have a positive out come.
Are you going ask your mate to become a drunk or drug abuser before he starts, will his family disown him first just to get into the scheme of things, will his girlfriend leave him of maybe have a loved one(wife,child, parent ) die first.
Just to make it more realistic!
Try to make his life hell and then throw him out on the street,


Sort of reminds me of that film with Eddie Murphy trading places

And>>> come on , do tell

jay-me

No on the contrary he doesn't plan on spending money he aquires it go's to a charity but his budget (of his own cash) cannot surpass what he has begged for and as regards hostels he isn't intending to live in the hostels rather the plan is to buy a tent and find a safe haven to respite in beacuse the hostels are regarded to be more trouble than they are worth.

Dave!

jay-me wrote:

No on the contrary he doesn't plan on spending money he aquires it go's to a charity but his budget (of his own cash) cannot surpass what he has begged for and as regards hostels he isn't intending to live in the hostels rather the plan is to buy a tent and find a safe haven to respite in beacuse the hostels are regarded to be more trouble than they are worth.

Why doesn't he just stay in a hotel while he's at it?

jay-me

DaveMcG wrote:

Why doesn't he just stay in a hotel while he's at it?

.......

hepcat

How long do you think it would take someone who is pretending to be homeless to "get back" into society? Eh, about as long as the taxi ride home I guess. I think the only way you are going to get any valid research done is by talking to and recording the stories of people who actually are homeless. Bear in mind that a lot of homeless people have substance abuse or mental health problems that prevent them from availing of some of the help that is there. You cannot replicate the circumstances of a genuinely homeless person, and I reckon homeless people would be offended by someone having a go at being homeless for some project they are doing in school / college.

I'm with everyone else here - there's no way he could replicate it and it's kind of offensive when you think of all the people who are stuck being homeless. If he wants to know genuinely what it's like, go talk to homeless people, go talk to employers and ask what they'd do if a homeless person applied for a job, etc

MorningStar

kearnsr wrote:

My under standing of the law is that asylum seekers have to be housed by the government till there application is judged? If the pass they can work and pay their way. If they dont they are sent home. Is this corect in simple terms?

Yes in simple terms

kearnsr wrote:

My feeling is that you should look after your own and then worry about the rest. The problem of homeless Irish people should've been sorted out a long time ago and we should be in the position that regardless if your Irish or from some other country that if you cant support your self you should be looked after.

How this is done I dont know but it should be.

Well it is nice that you think we should look after are own first but that is not the only obligation this country has. We got international money with terms and conditions one of which was we must have a system for asylum seekers and that is it. A social problem is not sorted out simply by money. There is no solution for many homeless due to their problems. If it costs €10000 to help one homless person but with that money you could help 20 other people what would you propose. AS you have no solution all you are doing is complaining and looking badly at people. You may not actually have a racist view but it would sound like you at least resent somebody who seeks asylum here and I would guess this would appear in you demeaner to people you believe are asylum seekers.

Flashling wrote:

As was pointed out, yes, alot of homeless people are addicts, but that can happen to someone from D4 just as easily as a homeless person, only they have the money for rehab.

THat is a little overblown. THe truth is if you are from a disadvantaged area you are a hell of a lot more likely to become an addict of any type. It certainly doesn't happen as easily to people from rich backgrounds.

I don't believe people are willing to pay more taxes to solve the social problems that casue homelessness or sort the problem out once it occurs.

Homeless people in the US is strange because so many of them are simply homeless where here the majority are addicts of one sort or another. Most addicts suffer menatal problems/scars before hand.

godtabh

MorningStar wrote:

Well it is nice that you think we should look after are own first but that is not the only obligation this country has.

What I was trying to say was that a solution should have been thought of a long time a go and the resources put in place for the people on the streets so that when the time did come when Ireland became a place of refuge that the government could've handled both situations better than they have up to date.

I don’t propose a solution because I don’t know enough of the problem.

MorningStar wrote:

ou may not actually have a racist view but it would sound like you at least resent somebody who seeks asylum here and I would guess this would appear in you demeaner to people you believe are asylum seekers.

While you didn’t call me a racist the suggestion is that I am. I resent that. All I stated was that we should be able to look after Irish people as well as people who come here to seek asylum

Hobbes

kearnsr wrote:

My under standing of the law is that asylum seekers have to be housed by the government till there application is judged? If the pass they can work and pay their way. If they dont they are sent home. Is this corect in simple terms?

That is correct. Immigrants are also sent home if they are homeless because they would be here on a visa for work and if they aren't working then they aren't welcome.

Refugees would be allowed avail of the same rights as normal Irish citizens.

As for homeless, Simon community is the best bet as mentioned. AFAIR not having a fixed address is one of the issues of getting back to normal.

the_syco

jay-me wrote:

Thanx for all the legitimate responses I am currently researching the above topic in order to create substantial evidence that it is indeed possible to overcome homelessness.

YEs. From having worked in the system, it's possible. Don't have time now, but your first put in temp accomadation, then after a while, if you keep coming back, into more permanant accomadation. The reason for this is that not all want to stay in accomadation, as unless you can get into a wet hostel, your not aloud to drink. Thus some prefer to stay outside, beg, and get into a hostel where they can bring in their own booze.

After a while in permanant accomadation, you get visited by an oficer, and they try to help you get back on your feet, by getting you to goto a course, and then onto a job.

Saying that, its not that easy. Most people are homeless due to a problem with themsleves. Be it that they are an alcolholic, paranoid, etc, they may not get on with other people, being abused when they were young, or just want to dissappear of the grid (so as not to be tracked down). I've seen one case where a "homeless" person lived in a shed, and did't want permanant accomadation, but live permanantly in the shed, as he didn't like company.

connundrum

jay-me wrote:

his budget cannot surpass what he has begged for.

So, his plan is to take money which would have otherwise been donated to a homeless person who actually needed it in order to fund a 'project' which may or may not suceed bewond the editing process?! I'm sure all homeless people will want to meet this guy and clap him on the back :rolleyes:

jay-me wrote:

the plan is to buy a tent and find a safe haven to respite in beacuse the hostels are regarded to be more trouble than they are worth.

Apparently the area outside the bank facing Trinity is a fairly safe haven.. I often see homeless people pitching tents there.. :eek:

MorningStar

kearnsr wrote:

What I was trying to say was that a solution should have been thought of a long time a go and the resources put in place for the people on the streets so that when the time did come when Ireland became a place of refuge that the government could've handled both situations better than they have up to date.

I don’t propose a solution because I don’t know enough of the problem.

So you don't now enough about the problem to know what it is like but you know enough to say the government are wrong in what they have done? That to me sounds like the definition of a rant and ignorance.

kearnsr wrote:

While you didn’t call me a racist the suggestion is that I am. I resent that. All I stated was that we should be able to look after Irish people as well as people who come here to seek asylum

The point is I was not calling you a racist but pointing out that your views probably make you treat people differently. If you are telling me you can keep your view blame the governement and not resent those people who are asylum seekers, I would find that hard to believe. It just doesn't sound natural from somebody who has thought the issue out and investigated it as much as you and come to a loigcal conclusion. I could be judging to much into what you have said.

So, his plan is to take money which would have otherwise been donated to a homeless person who actually needed it in order to fund a 'project' which may or may not suceed bewond the editing process?!

OP said his budget comes from his own cash, and begged money will go to charity. but whatever the amount of his begged money is, he can't spend more than that amount of his own cash.

Sam Vimes

i think that saying you can't get a job because you don't have a fixed address is a load of crap. there's no way i'd let such a stupid little technicality have me living on the street for the rest of my life.

surely they could take some of the money they earned begging (a lot more than you'd think) and pay someone to let them use their address on a cv. the person wouldn't even have to be a stranger. no one was born homeless, they all know people from before they were. one of these people would gladly take money to let someone use their address. hell i might even do it, it'd be a nice little earner.

godtabh

MorningStar wrote:

So you don't now enough about the problem to know what it is like but you know enough to say the government are wrong in what they have done? That to me sounds like the definition of a rant and ignorance.

I know about the problem but dont know the ins and outs of the problem to come up with a soultion that best fits the problem.

As an example I dont know how much it would cost the house, fed, cloth, educate/reeducate one person so that they maybe able enter society on a level playing feild so I wont say thats a soluiton. It may or may not be practical I dont know. Thats my point.

MorningStar wrote:

The point is I was not calling you a racist but pointing out that your views probably make you treat people differently. If you are telling me you can keep your view blame the governement and not resent those people who are asylum seekers, I would find that hard to believe. It just doesn't sound natural from somebody who has thought the issue out and investigated it as much as you and come to a loigcal conclusion. I could be judging to much into what you have said.

How do my views make out that I may treat people differently? I'm asking why do homless people not get the same treatment the same as asylum seekers? I'm asking why isnt there a situation that both aslyum seekers and homless people can get temporary accomidation so that both groups get a chance to make a new start in life.

If you are telling me you can keep your view blame the governement and not resent those people who are asylum seekers

I blame the government for many things. I resent them on the traffic chaos that is on the streets. But I dont resent the transport users.

connundrum

bluewolf wrote:

OP said his budget comes from his own cash, and begged money will go to charity. but whatever the amount of his begged money is, he can't spend more than that amount of his own cash.

Sorry, I read it as in - the proceeds from the project would go to a charity ie. if it got bought by rte. My mistake. :v:

MorningStar

kearnsr wrote:

I blame the government for many things. I resent them on the traffic chaos that is on the streets. But I dont resent the transport users.

I am sure when you are stuck behind somebody driving at the speed limit you shout out about the goverenment and not the person drving.

Your chooice of words indicates you don't believe asylum seekers should be given accomadation. You do realise you are defending an initial comment that suggested all imigrant minorities get accomadation over white Irish people?

godtabh

MorningStar wrote:

I am sure when you are stuck behind somebody driving at the speed limit you shout out about the goverenment and not the person drving.

Your chooice of words indicates you don't believe asylum seekers should be given accomadation. You do realise you are defending an initial comment that suggested all imigrant minorities get accomadation over white Irish people?

You try and drive at the speed limit at 7am on the N4 on a weekday and see how far you get.

I said why cant we look after are homeless people and at the same time fufill our legal obligations as some one stated earlier? My wording might not have been great but this is what I was trying to say.

WhiteWashMan

rb_ie wrote:

www.spellcheck.net ?

if i get nother reported post for your stpuid line word links to stupid pictures, im going to ban you.

stop spamming everything.

if youre going to make a point, make it. at least make your spam interesting.

first and only warning...

ronbyrne2005

the homeless issue is often used by people to attack/blame asylum seekers which is complete nonsense.there are loads of opportunities for homeless people but their addiction and/or mental health problems lead them back in to homlessness.funny that people saying "look after our own first" dont comment on the people on social welfare etc who get free accomodation and social housing many of which are well able to work/pay for thei own housing,asylum seekers are paid for out of different fund and compulsorarily under international treaties so its irrelevant to draw the issue into homeless issue. every person in the state (including homeless people) are entitled to dole and housing supplement which are both around 160euro a week which is enough to cover a bedsit rental food etc,but they need a deposit for the rental accomodation which they cant afford,sometimes the authorities will cover this but generally homeless will have to go into other forms of housing such as hostels ,temporary housing with supervision etc,but there are loads of opportunities for homeless if they can cut out the drugs/alcohol which they could if they went into a detox unit (for free) in any public hospital that does it.

the_syco

Commander Vimes wrote:

no one was born homeless, they all know people from before they were. one of these people would gladly take money to let someone use their address. hell i might even do it, it'd be a nice little earner.

Actually, some are born homeless.

Some may have known people before they went homeless, but since some are homeless due to alcohol, etc, these friends may be gone by the time they go homeless.

Also, taking money on behalf of someone to falsly verify that they live with you, could be seen as fruad in the eyes of the law, tbh.