Studio recording

OLP

My bands ready to record some tracks, only 3 or 4, our drummer's teacher own's a studio (www.musostudio.com), it's quite small so i'm a bit concerned, I think they way he does it is, the drummer records the beat, then the guitar and bass is recorded, then the vocals over everything. That method isn't very appealing to me as i think it would lose a lot of the energy, which is quite essential to our music. So does anyone have any advice on this type of recording or alternatives?

Rustar

The way we did it was to make a click track and a scratch rhythm track (guitar) then recorded the drums. Then bass, 'real' rhythm track, solo track, then vocals on top of it all.
In reality, you can make as many tracks as you want to flesh out the form of the song, then replace them with 'final take' tracks. You could even use a demo tape as the scratch track, assuming you're using a pro studio.

Doctor J

Like Rustar said, make a practice track. Your drummer needs to make a backing track now with a click and rhythm guitar, maybe vocals too, and practice the bejesus out of it at home. If you each practice your parts, your performance will not lack energy. If you show up on the day and it's the first time you've played the songs like this, your recordings will suck balls. This is the most common way of recording bands, and will yield the best results if you guys do your homework.

So now is the time to find out what bpm your songs are and make the backing tracks which everybody should practice on their own to as often as possible until the recording day comes. Also, make sure you set up your guitars and basses, make sure they're intonated correctly. Also, set some money aside for new strings and spares for the session, get rid of your crackly leads now and spend a bit of time with your amps, working on settings which give you the very best tone you have. Studio time is precious, so make the most of it.

Good luck. Enjoy the experience, don't fear it. Go in there with a positive attitude and be prepared to give it everything.

sei046

If you can use digital pedals and and go direct with instruments then mic the kit and all play together. Thats if you wanna keep that live feel. But really just doing what Rustar is the better way to go about things and you dont loose any energy

OLP

Thanks for the reply's, I've been telling the lads that I'm not going near a studio until we each know our parts off the back of our hands. The guitar and bass won't be a problem, they're both the same for the most part.

So basically what your saying is just make a recordin on an auld tape player and each of us practice it to death in our own time?

Oh and for the bpm do ya just have to sit down and work it out?

Beecher

OLP wrote:

Thanks for the reply's, I've been telling the lads that I'm not going near a studio until we each know our parts off the back of our hands. The guitar and bass won't be a problem, they're both the same for the most part.

So basically what your saying is just make a recordin on an auld tape player and each of us practice it to death in our own time?

Oh and for the bpm do ya just have to sit down and work it out?

The easiest way to get a bpm is to play along with a metronome, keep playing your riffs to the beat of the metronome and speed up or slow down the bpm on it as neccesary till you find the right bpm.

Theres also a few freeware programs that will give you the bpm of mouse taps, so just tap the beat of the riffs on your mouse and it will give you your answer.

jtsuited

get your drummer to practice with a click. Despite what most drummers say, most drummers can't properly play to a click. Get him to practice!!!

What you should do is record the drums,a guitar track and guide vocal with the click, and then you have the hard bit over.

Then it's just a case of overdubs. Baddabing etc...

OLP

He can play with a click, his teacher covers all that jazz. But the way yer describing it, it's like a song made outta lego.

I know what the story is with recording now. The drummer records while the guitar+bass play outside the room with him hearing it in headphones. Then the guitar and bass will be recorded with the drums in our headphones. And then vocals. We've decided we're gonna do everything in one take, to keep the flow there, so all in all we should be grand.

Rustar

OLP wrote:

He can play with a click, his teacher covers all that jazz. But the way yer describing it, it's like a song made outta lego.

I know what the story is with recording now. The drummer records while the guitar+bass play outside the room with him hearing it in headphones. Then the guitar and bass will be recorded with the drums in our headphones. And then vocals. We've decided we're gonna do everything in one take, to keep the flow there, so all in all we should be grand.

Studio work can get far more complex than building legos, believe me. More like assembling molecules out of atoms. :v:
I hope the guitarists can hear the drummer while the drum track is being laid down, otherwise your drummer is at the mercy of your guitarist's timing.....NOT what you want!

saibhne

OLP wrote:

I know what the story is with recording now. The drummer records while the guitar+bass play outside the room with him hearing it in headphones. Then the guitar and bass will be recorded with the drums in our headphones. And then vocals. We've decided we're gonna do everything in one take, to keep the flow there, so all in all we should be grand.

If you are going to do this, especially to attempt to do it one take. I would recommend you all rehearse to a click and are comfortable with the dynamic before going into the studio.
Establish the tempo (bpm) of the song and then use a drum machine to create a click to that bpm. Play the click track through a P.A. while you rehearse as a band so everyone can hear it. Not only will it make a better recording the practice will improve everyone's playing. From the musician's point of view the secret to maintaining "energy" and making a good recording lies in the musician's ability to play what he/she wishes but to also always be in control of the timing.

Enjoy!

jtsuited

Rustar wrote:

I hope the guitarists can hear the drummer while the drum track is being laid down, otherwise your drummer is at the mercy of your guitarist's timing.....NOT what you want!

Seconded, in my experience of newcomers to recording, it's always the guitarists who have severe timing problems. Watch out for it, as they'll either

a)not notice they're out of time
b)notice but deny it
c)not care because they're twiddling away in the corner!

OLP

saibhne wrote:

Play the click track through a P.A. while you rehearse as a band so everyone can hear it.
Enjoy!

Unfortunatly, a P.A. is not an option. I'm pretty certain our timing is grand, our guitarist doesn't have any of the usual characteristics of a guitarist (because he's not really a guitarist, he's a drummer.) We'll be rehearsing hard right until we go into the studio, I'm aiming for one big clean take and I'm confident we'll get it, we're a fairly hard working band. Thanks for all the help.

Rustar

No, you won't be using a PA. If it's a proper studio, you'll be in a soundproofed room using headphones. You can have them adjust the mix to whatever you like to get your part played properly.

If you don't have separation between the parts, then all you're doing is making a well-produced demo tape.

Assuming it's good pro equipment, such as a suspension mic w/spitscreen, your singer will be able to hear pieces of his lung slapping wetly against each other in his headphones as he breathes. It's really a different world in the studio, and that's why you must know your parts cold.

Don't be scared now. :v:


Edit: How to tell the quality of your studio.
Go look at the vocal mic. Is it:

1.) $100 Shure/AKG,
2.) $500 Sennheiser, or
3.) $4,000 Neumann?

saibhne

Rustar wrote:

No, you won't be using a PA. If it's a proper studio, you'll be in a soundproofed room using headphones. You can have them adjust the mix to whatever you like to get your part played properly.

Just to clarify I was talking about using the click and PA only while rehearsing so everyone in the band have their timing on the money before hitting the studio.

OLP - don't forget to let us kow how you get on! Send us a link to the recording if you can..

Cheers!

jtsuited

Rustar wrote:

Assuming it's good pro equipment, such as a suspension mic w/spitscreen,

I'm presuming you mean condenser mic w/ popshield. What the helll is a suspension mic?

Rustar

Sorry, bad terminology. I meant a condenser mic with shockmount and a popscreen.


http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/270536/

OLP

About the P.A. I was talking about at our own practices in a shed.

The equipment used is on here http://www.musostudio.com/ under the Equipment and Studio sections, I know the fella that runs it, he set it up himself a while ago, I trust him.

Concerning the quality of recording, a well produced demo tape is basically what we want.

And I'll put up a link to myspace when it's all done.

Just again, I'm dead sure our timing is perfect, me (bass) and the drummer have been playing together nearly two years and the guitarist is a drummer aswell so his rythem is grand aswell.

Rustar

?????

All that other cool equipment and they're using a $100 Nady vocal mic??
Seems kinda dodgy to me. Unless another manufacturer makes an 'SCM 1000'.

I hold my tongue.

saibhne

At Euro100 a day you get what you pay for - I think it's a good deal for bands looking to demo material - not clear if the engineer is included in that price though...

OLP

Yeah, Donal does a good bit of engineering, he says he shouldn't but he just likes to help.

Rustar

Well, help's definitely worth a few pennies I suppose....
looking at the pictures, I bet he also wants to lay down a few drum tracks for ya too, heheh :v:

saibhne

OLP - out of interest, as standard would you get the studio and an engineer for Euro100/120 a session or are you getting a deal?

OLP

No he only helps a little bit, he doesn't do a full engineering job on it, just makes it sound as good as possible without going over the top.

saibhne

Sounds like you do get an engineer for the price - that's a good deal for Euro100 a day

OLP

Yeah, like I said, he gives the drummer and guitarist drum lessons so he's looking out for them.

tripper

To give my 2cents, i've just started recording with my band and we are recording the band together in the same room with cabs and **** in a seperate room but we have put a lot of money into the studio and it is massive. I think you get the whole fell of a real band when you do this, lets hope for the best.

ascully

Hello there, i was just passing and saw this thread, i am a sound engineer and have worked for the music center and now freelance with my own pa and recording set up. So here is my feelings on the matter. If you are planning on goin in to the studio wether its a cheap studio or abbey road the first thing to do is practice,practice,practice and maybe some more. It sounds stupid but its true if you go in with your parts half learned and looking at one another for cues you dont really know the songs. I have seen some many young bands come in and think they know the songs but when it comes to recording it and everything is under the microscope they start to see that they dont. I agree with the click track thing get the drummer to work with a click he could ware headphones in the reharsal room one side off to hear the rest of the band you could get a click generator off the web and record it on to ipod or something. It sound like you bands all need to be in the same room so as to get a "vibe"(i hate that word) goin, so it feels more natural more like the reharsal room and thats great i love workin like that myself, it does add a certain energy to the recording. As for that phrase "it will only take one take to record the song", you can forget about that right now it wont and if you think it will you are mad, it never does NEVER. Thats a common misconception of bands sorry. Try and record the song in the reharsal room even if its on your sisters ****ty little tape recorder at least you will have a vague idea of wht you sound like and if you can see any potential problems before you fork out the money for a studio. Patience lots of them you will need everything takes longer than you think in a studio even if you have the fastest engineer in the world he cant play the instuments for you .
And any little mistakes that only annoy u a little bit in the sudio will drive you nuts when u get home try and fix them when they happen.
Sorry to sound negative and stuff but thats the way it is just you know so you not foolin yourselves. But saying that all you may be amazing at your instuments and wont need a second take . When its good it will be soo feckin good and you will never wnat to stop playin.
Alan http://www.myspace.com/alanscully