Questionable rides

fade2black

Not sure I'm going to get much support on this one but I'll run it up a flag pole anyway and see if someone salutes it (12 Angry Men)

I don't like people speaking through their pockets and blaming jockeys for their horses not winning but one thing that I'm begining to see more and more of is jockeys who read races terribley and don't seem to know how to judge a pace.

Two examples from today:

Exhibit A

Perle De Puce

Suspect

Mr S Waley Cohen



I think, and the market echoed this, that Mr Cohen was on the better horse. However he seemed to let the horse in front get away from him as if he was (a) expecting him to fall or (b) expecting him to not get the trip. Whenever it looked like he was getting close to him (on the bridle) he'd led him get away again. Of course when he decided to get a bit urgent on his mount the race was over. Taking out the possibilities of anything suspicous (although the horse did almost touch 1/1 at one point from a morning show of 4/6, this was a terrible ride to give a favourite.

Exhibit B

Mister Jungle

Suspect

Marcus Bradburne


Backed off the boards from 14s into 7-1, clearly there was a lot expected of this Saint Cyrien newcomer. Same crime again I think, in ground that at best can be described as testing and at worst like a bog, it was madness to not have a horse close up with the leaders with a furlong or so to go. When Marcus got urgent with the horse he flew and looked, as he passed the line in second, like he could go around again. Maybe I'm being harsh but something just didn't quite add up here, all other horses, including the odds on favourite, were looking very weary, but this one was flying near the end, indicating that Bradburne was holding him up and just delivered his challenge too late...or...well even though the horse was heavily backed...the more I look at it the more it looks like the horse was stopped.

Any comments? Am I completely wrong?

masterK

Didn't see Perle De Puce today so can't comment on the ride, but what I can say about his is that he is not the most straight forward or genuine of horses, certainly not one to back at odds on.

Another that really bothered me lately was the rides on a horse called Leodotcom, it was ridden by both A P Crowe and M P Watts in it's two races in December. I backed it in the first race, it was never put under the slightest bit of pressure and never once came of the bridle, I had my suspisions straight away. So next time it ran it gets another very easy ride and gets pulled up. In the process it drops down the handicaps.

So yesterday I get an email reminder saying it's running again, I check the card and I see Barry Geraghty is on board, I immediately think today must be the day so I stick a few quid on it just in case, it wins at 12/1. Fortunately I made a profit, but that was only because I had watched it previous two runs very closely and thought there was something amiss. Surely the jockey club need to look back at horses who suddenly win at a big price and review their previous races to see what awful rides they were given and how much effort the jockeys put in on them. These jockeys were essentially cheating, they were trying to fool the punters in thinking the horse had no chance.

fade2black

When you think about it, we're really so deep into the dark that getting involved in a lot of these races is just financial suicide. Perle De Puce is a bit of a baby but he was never given a chance today. Cohen, who I know has not been having the best of time of it lately, just didn't give the horse a chance to win his race.

The second one, I hope you can get a chance to see sometime, it was just plain crooked.

Well done on following the other one by the way, I guess that's all we can do to keep up with this game.

masterK

Since you mention rides on testing ground have you noticed the amount of times jockeys let their horses get miles behind on soft and heavy ground when every man and his dog knows how difficult it is to make up ground on testing conditions? It drives me mad, if it happens on a horse you back you know its beaten after 4 furlongs.

fade2black

Oh I've been waving that stick for ages MasterK...It astonishes me to see people, who hope to make a living from riding horses, try and make up crazy amounts of ground in bog like conditions. It always makes me think, when, as you say, every man and his dog knows how difficult it is to make up ground on that mud that maybe some of these guys are just...no..I won't go down that crooked road again.

masterK

It's either that or they all think they are next Murphy, Carberry or Walsh who all know how to ride a horse from off the pace.

fade2black

Always going for the spectacular, rather than the easier option.

Morgans

Perle de Puce was given a poor ride. Nothing crooked about it though, she was ridden by a poor jockey. Who rides the horse is obviously a critical factor when punting, and backing this jockey at small odds is a risk. I hope he gets injured before Liberthine runs in the national. Runs today.

fade2black

You're almost definitely right about it not being crooked (connections really don't need the money) but it was a standout poor ride and it annoys me to see, in the racing post analysis of both aforementioned races, that the rides were swept over and the horses ability questioned instead.

Morgans

Dont get me wrong, even with the best ride, its 50/50 that perle de puce would have won yesterday, but the jockey was caught napping on the run to the second last. He should have kept in closer touch to give his horse the best chance.

Corben Dallas

I'm sure the regs on the Racing baord can tell a lot more about the how the race is being run from the jockeys actions and how stressed /under pressure the horse looks etc>from looking at the Race on Tv.

Du plant was ahead for the second half of race and i thought Perle De Puce was just tracking him nicely, the ground was very soft and the jockey on Perle De Puce only pressed the 'go' button coming out of the last turn with 2/3 left to jump, he was only coming from 2/3Lenghts back(is that too long?) and when he did push so did the jockey on Henriettas horse, closed a bit in the run up and over the last 2 jumps but Du Plant had plenty left/Jockey was tracking the other horse(his lead) more effectively. He was looking back at Perle a lot to see where he was.

That would be my take on the Jockey's ride on Perle De Puce but like i said there are ppl here who can read more from jockeys input/tracking and how the horse coped better than i can.

---

Only thing that impressed me was that there were major questions marks over the Horses jumping ability before the race cause his form card is littered with U P F etc. I was impressed with how well/confidently the horse jumped in that race.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

fr wishy washy

ziggy67 wrote:

Saturday 21 January

Race: 1.45 Naas Horse: Florida Coast Jockey: Mr N. McParlan

Did anyone see this? Florida Coast cruises up behind scrubbed along Solerina two fences out then seemed to drop his hands between the final 2 fences then just shows his horse the whip after the last to finish beaten about 2 lengths.

I know that these a stablemates & i'm not naive enough to think that this wasn't exactly how the Bowe family wanted the race to work out but the amateur jockey was so blatant about it surely the stewards had to take some action.*


* I'm typing this not long after the race so fair play to the stewards if they did indeed take action

It stunk to high heavens,you could see the jockey on Florida Coast looking in front of him coming up the staight and was in a quandery as he was too close to the fav and going too well. He just decided to shake the reins slightly and pretend to use his whip.I think it was as bent as hell.........

fade2black

He just wasn't allowed to win, simple as that. The way he pretended to whip the horse in the straight was laughable though

fr wishy washy

fade2black wrote:

He just wasn't allowed to win, simple as that. The way he pretended to whip the horse in the straight was laughable though

This kind of incident makes a joke out of the sport and to me should see criminal charges as it was done deliberately as opposed to the Roger Loughran incident which was a blatent Jockey cock-up.

I didn't have a bet in the race btw, but anybody who had the balls to back Florida Coast for a win in this race were blatently and criminally robbed imo.

Just imagine it was your money on Florida Coast and watching the Jockey just sitting there on the bridle coming up the straight.

ps, at an enquirey later, Stewards told the jockey(on Florida Coast) to ride out properly in a finish,someone should be able to tell the Stewards to do their job properly.:mad:

wolfe

Anybody any views on the way monkey madge was ridden (or not ridden) by Paul Eddery yesterday inb the 2.30 at southwell.

Blatently stopped riding the horse when he was about to pass the leader about 1 furlong out. CAME SECOND.

fade2black

fr wishy washy wrote:

This kind of incident makes a joke out of the sport and to me should see criminal charges as it was done deliberately as opposed to the Roger Loughran incident which was a blatent Jockey cock-up.

I didn't have a bet in the race btw, but anybody who had the balls to back Florida Coast for a win in this race were blatently and criminally robbed imo.

Just imagine it was your money on Florida Coast and watching the Jockey just sitting there on the bridle coming up the straight.

ps, at an enquirey later, Stewards told the jockey(on Florida Coast) to ride out properly in a finish,someone should be able to tell the Stewards to do their job properly.:mad:

Florida Coast regularly works better than Solerina at home and has shown traces of real ability but it was surprising to see him getting so close. He blew a lot afterwards. There was some criticism of his amateur rider not pushing him out more and the stewards showed him the film but mainly for educational purposes. They were satisfied that he obtained the best possible placing.

:rolleyes:

fr wishy washy

fade2black wrote:

:rolleyes:

Just wondering, (re the quote about the horse above)who said it and where was this published?.

fade2black

Racing Post Analysis of the race.

fr wishy washy

fade2black wrote:

Racing Post Analysis of the race.

I'm surprised this was allowed slide by.Are people not excersised by this daylight robbery?.

Morgans

The long odds on favourite won Fr. Wishy Washy. Those who backed the forecast more than likely had the forecast the way it came up.

I not convinced that Florida Coast would have won if ridden harder, but it looked very bad, and he certainly wasnt given the chance. Jockey should have got some punishment just for the way it looked.

Corben Dallas

In the Dock> OSCATELLO 4.20 Sandown.

anyone else see this? absolutely disgraceful ride from Carbury, questions need to be asked. No sustained effort made by jockey over the last few furlongs ,had the race at his mercy, what does he do? look over shoulder and let Termoin catch him, v v suspect. :mad: If the horse was 'riden' (ie some effort put in) he would have won, got the impression that the horse still had gas in teh tank but the jockey wasnt asking for it to seal the race.

Paul Carbury's ride in this race has the whiff of a bent race. Methinks the Jockey club should look into this one.

what thinks ye?

fade2black

Lingfield - Just Logic- Shane Kelly

Stop riding before the line and got collared. What made this worse for me watching it was that I was listening to sportslive before it and there was a guy mailing in, genuinely worried because he had put 5000 on the horse, instead of 500. He was asking everyone if he thought the horse would win, poor fella.

Don't know what e muct be going through now. As for Shane Kelly, he deserves the maximum ban

sector

fade2black wrote:

Lingfield - Just Logic- Shane Kelly

Stop riding before the line and got collared. What made this worse for me watching it was that I was listening to sportslive before it and there was a guy mailing in, genuinely worried because he had put 5000 on the horse, instead of 500. He was asking everyone if he thought the horse would win, poor fella.

Don't know what e muct be going through now. As for Shane Kelly, he deserves the maximum ban

Think he got 28 days & yes I'm right wing here cos I'm tired of jockeys making these mistakes, they only need to concentrate for what 3 to 5 mins & the race is over & even then they need only concentrate if they are in the position to win which is what 1 or 2 races a day on average.

masterK

It really needs the book to be thrown at somebody before it will ever stop, it's just habit, they stop when they think they've won. Surely any jockey would ride out to 5 yards past the finishing post just to be sure, it is probably only another 2 seconds of effort.