Solution to soaring road deaths in Ireland?

kelle

I was watching "Prime Time" last night, and was in tears listening to the poor parents who recently lost 2 sons in a car crash three weeks ago in Carlow. She always warned them to drive carefully when they'd leave home, and they always reassured her they would. Sadly, like most young people, common sense would go out the window the minute they were in control of the steering wheel.
There is a lot of talk about having more gardai doing speed checks (useless, as they can't be everywhere all of the time), educating people about driving safely (useless again as they don't care once they're out on the road - they believe nothing will happen to them). Even the latest graphic road safety adverts are obviously not having any effect.
Which brings me to my next point - surely, if speed is the main factor in causing crashes and subsequent road deaths, then the effective solution is to eliminate it altogether from cars!!!!! With all the wonderful technology nowadays, and all the great devices that are put into cars (ABS, CD changers, air conditioning, etc.), surely a device can be placed in the car to stop it travelling above 60 kmph? And insurance companies could get together to only insure anybody under, say, 25, for such a car. They wouldn't get insurance for their parent's car unless such a device was fitted. When they'd approach open road, no matter how carelessly they were driving, the incidence of death would be greatly reduced if they could only drive to a maximum of 60 Kmph!
For years, I have been convinced that is the only solution and can't understand why car manufacturers have not implemented such devices in their cars.

(Maybe this is not the correct page to place this thread - please feel free to move it if you wish)

whiskeyman

kelle wrote:

Which brings me to my next point - surely, if speed is the main factor in causing crashes and subsequent road deaths, then the effective solution is to eliminate it altogether from cars!!!!! With all the wonderful technology nowadays, and all the great devices that are put into cars (ABS, CD changers, air conditioning, etc.), surely a device can be placed in the car to stop it travelling above 60 kmph?

The car isn't the problem... it's the person behind the wheel.
More education and enforcement of laws is the real solution.
Look at Sweden, or even Northern Ireland, as an example.

Such a device is totally not viable tbh.

Nuttzz

a speed restricted car isnt going to help you if your in a head on with a truck or if you are a cyclist..its all about education tbh

Dyr

theres already governor's in heavy goods vehicles which are meant to this but you're point is valid.

Here's a thought: we have nanny government that lectures us on drinking, smoking, waste disposal etc etc and the terrible cost to our collective health and finances of all this. Yet this nanny state has no problem with the sale of cars that are designed to go at speeds that are simply illegal. Compare that to the heavy handed legislation thats applied to other areas of life and the number of deaths cars cause by speeding. You'd imagine there'd be a national outcry but no.

Why? Theres a massive hypocrisy in play on the subject because most of us are quite happy to maintain the status quo on cars despite the horrendous casualties they cause. Sure the old scapegoats of drink driving, young drivers etc etc are wheeled out to make us feel better but look at the amount of money ploughed into campaigns to eradicate these things yet they seem to have little impact on the number of road deaths. Still it beats admitting that as car ownership increases so will the death toll. The usual suspects in public life beat their breast about smoking, drinking and all the other ills of irish life and remain strangely silent on this. Guess they all own motors

:v: < but sure, we need the ould jammers more than life itself!

Dyr

whiskeyman wrote:

The car isn't the problem... it's the person behind the wheel.
More education and enforcement of laws is the real solution.
Look at Sweden, or even Northern Ireland, as an example.

Such a device is totally not viable tbh.

Try think of any readily available device thats specifically designed to break the law in this country and is legal to own, its a short list.

We have stringent gun laws on the type of gun somebody can buy, because no civilian has a valid use for an automatic rifle or a semi- automatic pistol. Why is the car exempt from this logic? Why do you need a car that breaks our top speed limit?

We need to rethink our relationship with cars or stop kidding ourselves and accept the death toll and the chaos that is our roads

Gandhi

Car rental companies already have speed limiters installed in their cars so that you can't speed. Many people who have company cars have speed limiters on them and probably don't even know it. Basically, if you go above a certain speed, the computer cuts power to every second spark plug, until you get back into the safe zone. At least, that is the way it worked a few years ago. There is probably a more sophisticated method at this stage.

Wertz

Well actually teaching people to drive properly whilst they're in school, instead of teaching them sh*t they don't need later in life would be a good start. Americans have a system at school called driver's ed where at age 16 with your parent's consent, you're taught to drive properly...now I know america has a lot of road accidents and associated deaths, but then you're allowed out on the roads over that at 16 in most states.

that aside, you'll find that the vast majority of fatal accidents here tend to happen on secondary roads as opposed to kmotorways, yet the speed limits seem to be enforced ONLY on the motorways and primary routes (speed cameras, garda checkpoints etc)...due to our network of badly maintained country backroads and a tendency on behalf of a lot of the drivers that use them to go faster than what they should, we see so many mangled wrecks of cars upside down in a ditch...often they are single vehicle accidents.

Drink is used as such an excuse for everything in this country...speed is definitely more of a culprit and I also reckon in-car entertainment and mobile phone convos are blameworthy; lack of attention to what's going on on the road instead of what's on the stereo/mobile HAS to be a factor in some deaths.

I really don't have all the answers but we certainly have a major problem...comments liek that of the politician down the country today in relation to people in rural areas and that they should be allowed to drink and drive within reason are downright stupid and indicative of the attitude certain areas seem to have with regard to road safety...

Binomate

I drive quite fast. I certainly wouldn't like one of those devices stuck on to my car. I don't speed at all, I just drive fast. (e.g. accelerate to 40kph in 2nd gear in a 40kph zone when it is safe to do so; Double clutching etc.). I don't think that dangerous drivers should ruin it for people who enjoy driving fast in a safe manner like myself.

whiskeyman

Bambi wrote:

Try think of any readily available device thats specifically designed to break the law in this country and is legal to own, its a short list.
..... Why do you need a car that breaks our top speed limit?

I'm going to have to repeat myself here.
Car's dont break the speed limit.. it's the driver that knowingly pushes the car beyond the limit that it breaking the law.

A car is not specificially designed to break the law.
The top speed of a car, and where it may be greater than the speed limit, is used by marketeers as a USP of power and success.
It by no means gives instant validation that it is ok for the car to be used at that degree.

I do see your point, but I think much undue focus would go on it.
It is no silver bullet for our problem.
Education and enforcement is.

nesf

From what I've gathered, powerful cars are bought more for their acceleration ability when overtaking etc, than on their top speed which is relatively useless in this country.


That, and to all the people moaning about the "super cars" with insanely high speeds, please try and rememember that you don't need a large or powerful car to kill people on the road. It's education, and enforcement that are the main issues here not the vehicles on the road. People crying out for speed limiters are really ignoring the bigger picture. It's not just speed that kills on our roads.

LovelyHurling

Binomate wrote:

I drive quite fast. I certainly wouldn't like one of those devices stuck on to my car. I don't speed at all, I just drive fast. (e.g. accelerate to 40kph in 2nd gear in a 40kph zone when it is safe to do so; Double clutching etc.). I don't think that dangerous drivers should ruin it for people who enjoy driving fast in a safe manner like myself.

Who do you think you are? You either break the speed limit or you dont, how would one of these devices hinder you once you're going to be under the speed limit anyway.

The op made a very good, valid point. Devising a tool to maintainm the accleleration capabilities of a car while controlling its over all speed would hardly be like formulating an AIDS vaccine and would save a hell of a lot of heartbreak.

Mr.Nice Guy

I agree with the idea of limiting speed on cars.

As for those who say the cars aren't the problem, guns aren't responsible for killing people either it's the person pulling the trigger but that doesn't mean I want to see guns legalised in this country.

senordingdong

The obvious problem is to stop giving driving licenses to every stupid Tom, Dick and Harry.
It's disgusting how easy it is to get out on the road in this country.

Secondly, there should be no second chances for people who are caught speeding, drink-driving etc...

Fighting Irish

The only way road deaths can be stopped is if people slow down and if the government makes the roads safer, outside of dublin most roads are an absolute disgrace

Fighting Irish

senordingdong wrote:

The obvious problem is to stop giving driving licenses to every stupid Tom, Dick and Harry.
It's disgusting how easy it is to get out on the road in this country.
NO

Secondly, there should be no second chances for people who are caught speeding, drink-driving etc...
YES

Its OK for people who have their full licence already but if you don't and you were not allowed drive you would never really have enough experience on the roads to pass the full licence test

Binomate

LovelyHurling wrote:

Who do you think you are? You either break the speed limit or you dont, how would one of these devices hinder you once you're going to be under the speed limit anyway.

The op made a very good, valid point. Devising a tool to maintainm the accleleration capabilities of a car while controlling its over all speed would hardly be like formulating an AIDS vaccine and would save a hell of a lot of heartbreak.

I break the speed limits the odd time as well, only when it is safe to do so. Usually in the early hours of the morning or down the country.

Using electricity to power cars will save the environment. I want to be driving a petrol car when I'm 90. You might think I'm going off on a tangent here but the point is still the same. Sometimes you must ignore the greater good for something you enjoy.

Sam Vimes

whiskeyman wrote:

I'm going to have to repeat myself here.
Car's dont break the speed limit.. it's the driver that knowingly pushes the car beyond the limit that it breaking the law.

his point is that the car shouldn't be capable of doing something that's illegal in this country. it takes the 18 year old gob****e factor out of the equation. the driver tries to knowingly push the car above the limit, so he should be stopped. i saw a car on top gear that would go up to the limit, then pressing the accelerator had no effect. i think it even used gps technology to know what the limit in that area was. i may be wrong though.

apparently theres a thing you can get that gives you lower insurance. it monitors your speed and if you go above the limit, it sends the info off to the company and they triple your rates.

i think that anyone with a massive spoiler or a blue light under the car should be charged 10,000 for insurance because they're far more likely to act the eejit. in fact, they should be taken off the road so i don't have to look at them anymore.

Gandhi

The problem is attitude more than knowledge. Nobody thinks it is perfectly legal - or even a good idea - to drive home after fifteen pints or at double the speed limit.

But if I'm out with my friends and someone says "Did you hear Mikey drove home after half a bottle of whiskey the other night?" the typical response is "Hard man, that Mikey. What'll he do next? Ha ha ha!". Similar story if we hear about somebody getting away with a speeding ticket etc.

A lot of people still view many traffic laws as "spoilsport laws" put there by over-zealous politicians and whining old biddies to stop the cool kids from having fun. The risk is low enough to be perceived as virtually non-existent. For everyone who gets in a serious accident, there are hundreds who have done stupid / illegal things behind the wheel on numerous occasions and made it home without a scratch. I certainly did when I was younger.

Hellrazer

There was talk a few years back of a speed limiter which worked via a satellite link.

Basically it adjusted the vehicles speed depending on the "speed limit zone" it was in using global positioning.

The problem with speed limiters and one which Ive researched for a friend is that the experts reckon that they could actually kill more people than they save.

Imagine trying to overtake a car in front and the limiter suddenly kicks in--accident waiting to happen.

Or if you foresaw an accident in which you knew you could accelerate around the obstacle/whatever and the limiter kicks in.

Limiters are not the solution to the problem.
Education,enforcement and more penalty point categories are the only way to stop the carnage on the roads.
Personally Id also like to see this thing of Provisional licence holders from driving done away with--I mean come on you fail your test and drive away--stupid.
At the minute its not practical until they get the waiting lists down for tests to a reasonable waiting time.

Another thing is to retest drivers every 5 or 10 years and again if they fail they cant drive until they`ve passed it again.It would make people appreciate their licence more and IMO make them better drivers.

whiskeyman

Hellrazer wrote:

Limiters are not the solution to the problem.
Education,enforcement and more penalty point categories are the only way to stop the carnage on the roads.

Exactly.

I'm sure the Government would love all this talk of limiters being used as a possible solution, as it puts more pressure on motor manufactures rather than themselves.
It's our Government that need to be forced more to spend more on education and enforcement to bring the stats down.

Mr. Niceguy wrote:

As for those who say the cars aren't the problem, guns aren't responsible for killing people either it's the person pulling the trigger but that doesn't mean I want to see guns legalised in this country.

Like a car, you can get a gun licence and own a (certain type) gun in this country. It all depends if you use it illegally or not.
Thankfully, there's heavy enforcement on guns in this country, and extremely harsh punishment if used illegally.... not so for cars it seems.... and that's the issue I'm stressing.

Mr.Nice Guy

Hellrazer wrote:

There was talk a few years back of a speed limiter which worked via a satellite link.

Basically it adjusted the vehicles speed depending on the "speed limit zone" it was in using global positioning.

The problem with speed limiters and one which Ive researched for a friend is that the experts reckon that they could actually kill more people than they save.

Imagine trying to overtake a car in front and the limiter suddenly kicks in--accident waiting to happen.

Or if you foresaw an accident in which you knew you could accelerate around the obstacle/whatever and the limiter kicks in.

Limiters are not the solution to the problem.

How about we forget satellites altogether and just make sure that manufacturers don't produce cars that go over a certain limit?

LovelyHurling

Binomate wrote:

I break the speed limits the odd time as well, only when it is safe to do so. Usually in the early hours of the morning or down the country.

Sometimes you must ignore the greater good for something you enjoy.

So, its safe to speed in the early hours in the morning? Its also safe to speed 'down the country'?

A huge amount of accidents happen in the early hours of the morning. Most accidents occur down the country. I think this is the type of attitude problem people here are referring to. Im not going to lose any sleep if you kill yourself on a country road at 3am, but what about the innocent people you are at risk of murdering?

if I'm out with my friends and someone says "Did you hear Mikey drove home after half a bottle of whiskey the other night?" the typical response is "Hard man, that Mikey. What'll he do next? Ha ha ha!". Similar story if we hear about somebody getting away with a speeding ticket etc.

A lot of people still view many traffic laws as "spoilsport laws" put there by over-zealous politicians and whining old biddies to stop the cool kids from having fun. The risk is low enough to be perceived as virtually non-existent.

Well said.

whiskeyman

LovelyHurling wrote:

So, its safe to speed in the early hours in the morning? Its also safe to speed 'down the country'?

A huge amount of accidents happen in the early hours of the morning. Most accidents occur down the country. I think this is the type of attitude problem people here are referring to. Im not going to lose any sleep if you kill yourself on a country road at 3am, but what about the innocent people you are at risk of murdering?

I think Binomate ought to read this:

sbpost.ie wrote:

Road death statistics for 2001 show that by far the worst time for accidents is between 9pm and 3am, with 27 per cent of all deaths occurring then.The worst morning of the week is early on Sunday, Saturday being the traditional big night out.

Newspaper and radio reports frequently deploy the phrase `no other vehicle was involved' when reporting late-night tragedies.

This is because one-third of fatal road accidents are classed as `single vehicle only' - a collision type which is "strongly associated with the casual factors of excessive speed and/or alcohol", according to the NRA.

Binomate

LovelyHurling wrote:

So, its safe to speed in the early hours in the morning? Its also safe to speed 'down the country'?

A huge amount of accidents happen in the early hours of the morning. Most accidents occur down the country. I think this is the type of attitude problem people here are referring to. Im not going to lose any sleep if you kill yourself on a country road at 3am, but what about the innocent people you are at risk of murdering?




Well said.

When it is safe to do so yes. I would consider the early hours of the morning a lot safer than daylight hours because there is a lot less traffic on the road. When I say down the country, I'm not talking about tiny bothareens. I'm talking about roads that are a lot wider and straighter than city roads with a lot less traffic on them with more visibility.

Whiskeyman, I'm not a Boy Racer. I only drive fast when I feel it entirely safe to do so with out endangering myself or other people. I would consider myself a safer driver than most people.

whiskeyman

Binomate wrote:

When it is safe to do so yes. I would consider the early hours of the morning a lot safer than daylight hours because there is a lot less traffic on the road. When I say down the country, I'm not talking about tiny bothareens. I'm talking about roads that are a lot wider and straighter than city roads with a lot less traffic on them with more visibility.

Whiskeyman, I'm not a Boy Racer.

Read the stats I posted. These hours are not "safer".
Once again, education is so important... something you are clearly lacking.
If you are not a "Boy Racer", what exactly are you then?
Someone who gets a buzz ("enjoy" as you said) from taking your car to a higher speed than is allowed legally?
Fits the bill tbh.

Binomate

whiskeyman wrote:

Read the stats I posted. These hours are not "safer".
Once again, education is so important... something you are clearly lacking.
If you are not a "Boy Racer", what exactly are you then?
Someone who gets a buzz ("enjoy" as you said) from taking your car to a higher speed than is allowed legally?
Fits the bill tbh.

I was simply saying that you are more likely have an road with no cars on it at all during those hours than you are during the day. If there are other cars about it's hardly safe. The majority of accidents happen between those hours because people are stupid enough to drink and drive or drink when there is alcohol still in their system or because they are driving when they are tired.

I don't drink very often, I certainly don't drive within 24 hours of consuming alcohol and I usualy sleep through the day. I am fully awake, aware and aleart when I'm on the road. If I'm not I don't drive. I am a safe driver and as I've said before only drive fast when the roads are empty of cars and it is safe to do so. I like the feeling of being 100% in control otherwise I would be afraid to step in to the car. Yes I like the feeling you get when you accelerate hard and the feeling you get when you are driving fast but I'm not a Boy Racer and again, if I'm not in 100% control and 100% certain of the outcome then I wont do something.

I drive a honda civic that I havn't modified, I have experience on the road, I've never had an accident, I have no points on my lisence, I passed my driving test first time around, got 40/40 in my theory test. The only difference between me and someone you havn't labeled a 'boy racer' is that I'm probably a safer driver than they are. I'm not trying to be arrogant, I'm just stating the truth. I have been told by a lot of people that I'm a very safe driver, safer than most. This is the first time i've ever been labled a 'boy racer' (But it's on a forum, by someone who has never seen or experienced me driving before, so I'm not too woried).

LovelyHurling

Binomate wrote:

The majority of accidents happen between those hours because people are stupid enough to drink and drive or drink when there is alcohol still in their system or because they are driving when they are tired.

Nothing to do with speeding then? You'd better let the NRA know quickly, thyve just spent a lot of $$ on an advertising campaign.

Binomate this thread is called Solution To Soaring Road Deaths In Ireland and your posts have nothing to do with a solution, discussing your kicks doesn't belong here at all

Binomate

It's not my fault the conversation drifted this way. I simply said I wouldn't agree with a speed limiter or something like what the OP suggest because it would ruin driving for people like me who enjoy speed when it is in a controlled and safe state. Somehow I was taken for a boy racer, and I'm simply stating in my last post that I'm not.

Yes when you speed in an unsafe way like most of the people who speeed do, then speeding does contribute to the death tolls. Infact I'd say a high majority of the deaths in Ireland are a combination of drinking whilst, tired and speeding.

whiskeyman

Binomate wrote:

I was simply saying that you are more likely have an road with no cars on it at all during those hours than you are during the day. If there are other cars about it's hardly safe.

Actually, it is.
More cars = more traffic = slower speeds = less fatal accidents. It's a fact. Ask any traffic garda and they'll tell you the same.

Binomate wrote:

The majority of accidents happen between those hours because people are stupid enough to drink and drive or drink when there is alcohol still in their system or because they are driving when they are tired.

No need to bring drink into the equation.... speed is just as big a killer.
Yet again.....fact.

Binomate wrote:

I don't drink very often, I certainly don't drive within 24 hours of consuming alcohol and I usualy sleep through the day. I am fully awake, aware and aleart when I'm on the road. If I'm not I don't drive.

I have to say, fair play. At least you understand some of the basics.

Binomate wrote:

I am a safe driver and as I've said before only drive fast when the roads are empty of cars and it is safe to do so. I like the feeling of being 100% in control otherwise I would be afraid to step in to the car. Yes I like the feeling you get when you accelerate hard and the feeling you get when you are driving fast but I'm not a Boy Racer and again, if I'm not in 100% control and 100% certain of the outcome then I wont do something.

This is the problem.
You are a danger to yourself, if anything, with this attitude.
I think a visit to the National Medical Rehabilitation Centre in Dun Laoghaire may be worth while. Here you'll meet many lads, of all ages, who will tell you they thought they felt 100% in control and loved the feeling of speed, and whos mates said they were the safest drivers they knew...
At least here, you'll be able to meet some of the ones who enjoyed it.... sadly, there are hundreds that aren't alive to tell their tale.

Binomate wrote:

The only difference between me and someone you havn't labeled a 'boy racer' is that I'm probably a safer driver than they are. I'm not trying to be arrogant, I'm just stating the truth. I have been told by a lot of people that I'm a very safe driver, safer than most. This is the first time i've ever been labled a 'boy racer' (But it's on a forum, by someone who has never seen or experienced me driving before, so I'm not too woried).

I think you find offence by the title "Boy Racer" as you may associate it with a Burberry Hat wearing lad with pimped up car who loved reckless driving.
These associations have been wrongly attached by the media and have almost segregated this character from what was the real meaning: someone who loves speeding and felt confident about it.
Even if you dont agree with the title, you cant deny the basic attachment.

Binomate

I've seen the effects of speeding on boy racers before. A guy I knew was in a horrific accident in Longford town. He and the girl in the passanger seat were killed instantly, guy in the back seat broke all of his bones, and another guy scalded by boiling hot radiator fluid. I'm not stupid. I just enjoy speed when it is safe to do so. Be it on a racing circuit, runway, completely empty or closed off road or what ever is safe enough to do so. I don't speed excessivly or inappropriatly.

whiskeyman

Binomate wrote:

I'm not stupid. I just enjoy speed when it is safe to do so. Be it on a racing circuit, runway, completely empty or closed off road or what ever is safe enough to do so.

And that's the point I'm trying to get across.
I've never questioned your level of intellegence, but I have questioned your knowledge of proper road safety.
It is not safe to speed on open roads the way you say you do, and I've backed this up each time I've mentioned it.
Plain and simple.
Take your love of speed to the closed environment of a rally track etc.. for your own sake and other road users.

b3t4

Ok, I'm getting tired of people ranting on about the usual suspects when it comes to the number of accidents in this country. All I ever here is speed this and speed that, drink driving and bad drivers. What about the ROADS people are driving on, surely they have a part to play in all of this??

This country is often compared to England, America and the rest of Europe in relation to our road accidents. I don't think I've ever heard a comparision of the road networks in relation to road accidents.

I've been to England and America and in both places I experienced some appalling driving habits by some of the people.

In England, when on a dual carriage way, my father was driving at the speed limit of 70mph. It felt like our car was standing still in comparison to the speeds other people were doing as they were passing us. Not only this but it had rained quite heavily and there was a coating of water on the road. It was difficult to see anything but the spray off the cars.

In America I experienced a number of drivers getting into their car to drive to the town city after they had spent most of the night drinking. All of the drivers were noticeable drunk. When I said anything about this I was being told 'that's how it is here, get over yourself'. I was shocked and stunned to say the least. People took it as an insult when I questioned whether they could drive in such a state. All these people were people in their late twenties, married and some have kids.

The above are my experiences and obviously cannot truly speak for how every person in England or America drive.

To the best of my knowledge,the majority of accidents happen in narrow country roads that have a lot of twists. I am from a country area and have not seen the width of these roads increase dramatically over the last couple of years nor have I seen an effort to straighten these roads.

Until the government begin to factor in the roads on which people are driving into the reason for high road accidents they are fighting a loosing battle in my opinion. Increasing peoples education e.t.c are all great but people also require good equipment to work with and I think the roads in Ireland fall short of this.

Binomate

I've heard from numerous people, including british police officers who have spent a great deal of time inspecting and observing some of the American police forces and they general thing is that the police are too concerned with the bigger fish they are trying to fry that they havn't the time to follow up a drink driving arrest and instead just hand out warning after warning. I've seen on some reality tv shows where people were stopped who didn't even know their own names, and they were given a warning and actually allowed to drive the rest of the way home.

senordingdong

Fighting Irish wrote:

Its OK for people who have their full licence already but if you don't and you were not allowed drive you would never really have enough experience on the roads to pass the full licence test

I think you're missing the point.
To get on the road all one has to do (in this country) is pass a small theory test. Provisional licenses are a joke.
In this country you can drive home after failing your driving test. Where is the logic in that?

Not to mention the amount of morons on our roads. Have you never looked at someones driving 'skills' and said 'who the hell let them onto the road!?!?'....I do, all the time. It makes me sick.

Endurance Man

I would put a lot of the blame on the roads in this country, to sum up they are complete and utter ****! They really are bad, the road workers just dont seem to no what they are doing . Believe it or not but when they fill in a pothole they SHOULD make sure the filled in pothole is level with the fooking road!! I think road planning is also very bad, Ireland has to be the only country in the world that thought it would be clever to put Robots on a round-a-bout . Did they just miss the point of a round-a-bout completely?

Then you have the learner drivers, my mom no's a 43yr old women that is still driving on her learners! Whats the story here? Surely you are have to be driving with a licensed driver if you are a learner? Why is this not enforced at all?

nlgbbbblth

It would help if the newspapers published the facts about individual accidents.

A fatal accident in the Leinster area. Three deaths. Witness travelling in car in the opposite direction sees the vehicle in question coming towards them at excessive speed. Within one minute the vehicle had crashed and the witness was first on the scene. Gardai and ambulance called.

Alcohol was also a factor - several people had seen the driver drinking in a local pub.

Newspaper reports make no mention of the speeding or the drinking.

If they did, it might deter other people from doing the same.

JohnCleary

I was almost paralysed from the waist down, while coasting at about 4MPH approaching traffic lights ... How would such a device save me?

kelle wrote:

I was watching "Prime Time" last night, and was in tears listening to the poor parents who recently lost 2 sons in a car crash three weeks ago in Carlow. She always warned them to drive carefully when they'd leave home, and they always reassured her they would. Sadly, like most young people, common sense would go out the window the minute they were in control of the steering wheel.
There is a lot of talk about having more gardai doing speed checks (useless, as they can't be everywhere all of the time), educating people about driving safely (useless again as they don't care once they're out on the road - they believe nothing will happen to them). Even the latest graphic road safety adverts are obviously not having any effect.
Which brings me to my next point - surely, if speed is the main factor in causing crashes and subsequent road deaths, then the effective solution is to eliminate it altogether from cars!!!!! With all the wonderful technology nowadays, and all the great devices that are put into cars (ABS, CD changers, air conditioning, etc.), surely a device can be placed in the car to stop it travelling above 60 kmph? And insurance companies could get together to only insure anybody under, say, 25, for such a car. They wouldn't get insurance for their parent's car unless such a device was fitted. When they'd approach open road, no matter how carelessly they were driving, the incidence of death would be greatly reduced if they could only drive to a maximum of 60 Kmph!
For years, I have been convinced that is the only solution and can't understand why car manufacturers have not implemented such devices in their cars.

(Maybe this is not the correct page to place this thread - please feel free to move it if you wish)

-EDIT- To add, the offending veichle that eventually drove over my spine, was doing about 10-15MPH (You do the KM conversion)

While I only read the first post on this thread, OP; Your idea of a speed restriction on cars is about as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike. If such a system was introduced, there would be national backlog on motorways, which have a 100/120 KM/PH speed limit. I saw the word 'education' in some post.. Now that makes sense. Or general cop on. I now drive my own car, I will drive slower in the wet weather for obvious reasons. I know the limits of my car (although capable of about 130MPH), I have yet to test whether or not it will do this speed. I know that I dont have premium tyres on my car, I know that in wet weather, with my cheap Nankangs (sp?), ill slide like a blade through ice... So I drive slower than I normally would, I increase my distance between the car infront of me and myself... Education is the key tbh, not a stupid speed restrictor

LovelyHurling

It wouldnt but elsewhere it would cut down on excessive speed which is one very common contributor to road deaths in Ireland. It's not just about education, people are stupid. Every teenager in Ireland knows drugs are bad for example, doesnt stop most of us from having experimented. Once people, and by people I mean young men of my age, get behind a wheel too often something takes over and there's this feeling "well I know I shouldnt speed but there's nobody on the road...". Nobody thinks its safe to speed/ drink and drive etc. Education isn't going to fix everything and sometimes more surefire methods such as a speed inhibitor are required.

Suaimhneach

Make cars that dont go faster than 70 mph. And make coppers car go 80mph so they can catch anyone they want.

Stops half the speeding, at least.

JohnCleary

LovelyHurling wrote:

It wouldnt but elsewhere it would cut down on excessive speed which is one very common contributor to road deaths in Ireland. It's not just about education, people are stupid. Every teenager in Ireland knows drugs are bad for example, doesnt stop most of us from having experimented. Once people, and by people I mean young men of my age, get behind a wheel too often something takes over and there's this feeling "well I know I shouldnt speed but there's nobody on the road...". Nobody thinks its safe to speed/ drink and drive etc. Education isn't going to fix everything and sometimes more surefire methods such as a speed inhibitor are required.

In regards to the drink driving thing, Saab have introduced (Havent seen it on Irish cars, saw it on the telly box) a key that requires you to blow into it before the car will de-mobilise. A simple and probably effective product that has given the company great publicity. Don't think it'd work in Ireland though, you'd have Paddy coming out of the pub at 3am, hunting down a sheep and sticking it down the poor sheeps throat*

* By 'thing' i mean the breathliser ... Shame on you for thinking differently!

LovelyHurling

I never presumed differently:o There are so many possibilities outside of the obvious area of education for Gardai and the NRA to take advantage of in relation to these issues. The speed inhibitor, that key idea, imagine what the combining effect of these perceived 'gimmicks' would have on real lives. It's not very likely that these ideas will come to fruition anytime in the close future however. Remember a few years ago when people turned on their motor lights for a day all day down here? Why isn't that made a legal requirement as it is in some of the Scandinavian countries where it has proven to decrease road mortality rates. It would cost the givernment nothing only time, and be even easier to 'police' than seatbelts. Sure it would only be a small factor in tackling the road deaths issue but it could be part of an aforementioned comprehensive 'combined' effort. The governement by standing idly by (opinion) and failing to really tackle road deaths is neglecting innocent road users whose lives are being put in danger by very stupid people.

JohnCleary

While this could be im myagination talking..
I think I can remember a few years ago, a friend of my fathers called to our house one day to show off his new motorbike. From what I can remember the headlight came on with the ignition... I think this is slowly being phased into new cars? Could be wrong though

LovelyHurling wrote:

I never presumed differently:o There are so many possibilities outside of the obvious area of education for Gardai and the NRA to take advantage of in relation to these issues. The speed inhibitor, that key idea, imagine what the combining effect of these perceived 'gimmicks' would have on real lives. It's not very likely that these ideas will come to fruition anytime in the close future however. Remember a few years ago when people turned on their motor lights for a day all day down here? Why isn't that made a legal requirement as it is in some of the Scandinavian countries where it has proven to decrease road mortality rates. It would cost the givernment nothing only time, and be even easier to 'police' than seatbelts. Sure it would only be a small factor in tackling the road deaths issue but it could be part of an aforementioned comprehensive 'combined' effort. The governement by standing idly by (opinion) and failing to really tackle road deaths is neglecting innocent road users whose lives are being put in danger by very stupid people.

Litcagral

Endurance Man wrote:

I would put a lot of the blame on the roads in this country, to sum up they are complete and utter ****! They really are bad, the road workers just dont seem to no what they are doing . Believe it or not but when they fill in a pothole they SHOULD make sure the filled in pothole is level with the fooking road!! I think road planning is also very bad, Ireland has to be the only country in the world that thought it would be clever to put Robots on a round-a-bout . Did they just miss the point of a round-a-bout completely?QUOTE]


You may have a good point to make about the condition of the roads. However all GOOD drivers will adapt their driving to suit the prevailing conditions at the time.

stevenmu

Lol, I love this bleeding heart mentality. It's entirely possible to break the speed limit every time you get in a car and never hurt anyone, it's also possible to drive over a bunch of kids on their way to school at 30kph and kill the lot of them. There's no quick fix or magic cure, there's a whole host of reasons why so many people are killed in car accidents and in most cases it's a combination of factors, speed only being one of them.

Besides, as a practical matter people who wanted to speed would find a way of overriding the limiter pretty quickly, and if they then get caught speeding all they have to do is re-enable it and say they couldn't possibly have been speeding.

LovelyHurling

People please stop emphasising the importance of being some sort of inherently good driver and some education campaign... neither is going to prevent road deaths to the same degree as more effective measures already mentioned or those where people are taught to be good drivers through compulsory rigourous testing, ie not that joke of a theory test, which used to comprise the following question or some variation of it:


Approaching an old person crossing the road at a pedestrian crossing should you

a. gradually slow down and allow the pedestrian to pass
b. increase your speed
<insert other stupid options here>

That kind of thing really makes a joke of road safety 'education'.

There is no such thing as a 'good' driver you are only as good as your intelligence and the intelligence or unintelligence of the people you share the road with.

LovelyHurling

stevenmu wrote:

Lol, I love this bleeding heart mentality. It's entirely possible to break the speed limit every time you get in a car and never hurt anyone, it's also possible to drive over a bunch of kids on their way to school at 30kph and kill the lot of them. There's no quick fix or magic cure, there's a whole host of reasons why so many people are killed in car accidents and in most cases it's a combination of factors, speed only being one of them.

Besides, as a practical matter people who wanted to speed would find a way of overriding the limiter pretty quickly, and if they then get caught speeding all they have to do is re-enable it and say they couldn't possibly have been speeding.

Of course speed is only one factor, but its a big one and nobody is forgetting that there are other reasons for road deaths all revolving around stupidity.

As regards overcoming the speed inhibitor, that really isnt going to stand up, it could be built in a similar way to a tacograph where any tampering with the device can be easily proven. And in the case where you have a policeman with a speedgun at the side of the road coming after you, it would be impossible to re-fix the device without the ability to stop time...

NeMiSiS

I drive every single day of my life, probably do about in an around a thousand miles every 7 to 10 days. The **** I see every single day is frightning, and most of the time it has very little to do with speed, in fact it is pretty much the oppisite. On Sunday I saw a group of four very old women easily 75 driving in a car, doing a grand total of about 30 MPH, they had caused a tail back of at least 40 cars, and nearly caused a pile up when they came to a bend because they slammed on and reduced their speed to maybe 15 MPH.

During the week I was stopped at lights waiting to go straight on.. in the lane clearly marked straight on our left, with the lane to my right clearly marked right turn only.. Light goes green I proceed straight.. when a guy to my right cuts right across in front of me.. I saw him in my mirrors, and see this so often I knew it was about to happen.. even better was he had no lights on and it was pretty much dusk

I have been on numerous times behind cars on N routes doing 100 KPH who have jammed on their brakes to let someone out at a junction.. when there is no traffic but myself on them on the road.. obviously blissfully unaware that I'm behind them... why they feel the need to do this.. I have no idea

I have have seen a car all over the road.. as if the driver was drunk out of their mind.. when I over took it was a woman trying to eat an ice cream cone..

I see drivers jamming on their brakes for oncoming traffic.. not on little back roads either..

I see drivers who totally underestimate safe driving speeds in rain..fog etc, and who see it fit to enforce their speed limit on other drivers.. by that I mean when they are overtaken they start flashing lights blaring horns etc..

Coveys of 'safe drivers' doing about 45 MPH all tail gating each other..

Lights :
A frightning amount of cars with only one headlight working, cars with 1 brake light.. or no brake lights working. People who dip their lights at the last second as they come round a bend.. basically blinding you going into a bend. Cars and jeeps towing trailers, and not setting their headlights appropriatly as in lowering them..

Cars driving the whole way down Motorways in the right hand lane and then diving across two lanes for their exit. Gneral lane discipline is totally crap here, the N7 is a perfect example of this, heading North or South, the inside lane is generally the fastest.. I even see trucks cruising along in the outside lane.. Or when people merge onto Motorways.. they do not use the merging lane to its full extent and merge doing about 45 - 50 MPH.. so traffic on the inside lane has to change lanes because they have not bothered to match the speed of the traffic on the motorway before they merge. Then there's the rolling road blocks you see on motorways of cars or trucks doing the exact same speed in both lanes, generally 55 MPH.

And my very very very very very favourite thing I see people do every single day is brake first, then indicate.. generally trying to dive into a parking spot.. it's so ****ing dangerous it is unreal. What is worse is You are responsible if you go into the back of them.

Bah I could go on and on and on.

I'm sick of being told Speed is killing people, the standard of driving is totally crap regardless of what speed people travel. In Ireland I would well be in favour of making people sit one of the Advanced driving tests every 3 years.. or any kind of test every 3 years for that matter .. not try to take a test for 3 years and eventully get their licence.

Bit of a rant!
Tk

LovelyHurling

NeMiSiS wrote:

I'm sick of being told Speed is killing people, the standard of driving is totally crap regardless of what speed people travel.

Im sick of hearing that as well, in fact Im sick of hearing about road deaths at all not only do I think it's a waste of life its also the most boring sh!t you can put on the news after coming home from work, well that and the Africa thing, but it's important so we have to listen like it or not...

Speed is not the only thing that kills people, there are many others. You can't deny, however, that as bad as those 75 year old women are on the road, equally bad is the 17 year old driving at speeds of 80mph (km anyone?!) All anyone is saying is that there is a list as long as your arm of things that cause road accidents, speed and drink driving are just two of the easiest to clamp down upon

I mean if we cant clamp down on these simple things how much trouble are we going to have changing the mindset of an entire country??

whiskeyman

NeMiSiS wrote:

I'm sick of being told Speed is killing people, the standard of driving is totally crap regardless of what speed people travel.

LovelyHurling wrote:

Im sick of hearing that as well..

Speed is not the only thing that kills people, there are many others. ....speed and drink driving are just two of the easiest to clamp down upon

http://www.garda.ie/angarda/press/2005/p1dec05.html

Garda Press Office wrote:

Inappropriate speed is the single greatest contributory factor to road deaths and serious injuries.

Frequency and severity of road crashes decreases with reductions in average speed.
The higher the impact speed, the greater the likelihood of serious and fatal injury.
A 1km/h decrease in average speed results typically in a 3% decrease in road crash frequency. (Source: European Transport Safety Council)

Inappropriate speed is the greatest factor when it comes to road deaths.... fact.
Even if the standard of driving is bad, if speed is reduced, there will be less fatal accidents.
(When drink is thrown into the equation, speed is still the main factor.... if a drunk driver reduced their speed, fatalities would be reduced).
It may seem the easiest thing to clamp down on, but our enforcement agencies are simply not getting the resources they need to do their job... and many drivers simply are not listening either.
Since it's so crucial, I think they've every right to keep on hammering home the message that speed kills..... you may be sick of it, but not enough are taking the message home and are taking it to their grave instead.

Mr_Roger_Bongos

Its very simple! The reason car insurance prices are so high in Ireland,is not just because of accident rates, but because there is a huge amount of people on the road Who haven't done they're friggin test!!!! Very few developed countries in the world are so lax about letting learner drivers on the road, without a qualified driver in the car! It's not an Irish mentality problem (look at the north's accident rate), its the culture of learners, not doing they're tests.

People complain about waiting times for tests alot, and then they get a date, and fail the test! Where else in the world can you fail your test, and drive home from the testing office!!! FFS!

People also talk about Speed and Bad Roads, again better testingis the solution, like they have in Germany (i know the roads are better there, it's the test im talking about). The german driving test is more like a motorists instruction course! Its the most difficult test in Europe. The U.K. has an advanced driving test, teaching high speed breaking, accident avoidance, and reading traffic patterns and spotting possible accidents, but its not cumpulsory, the germans have made this advanced course the basic qualificaiton.

More properly qualified drivers should mean less accidents, more live's saved and lower insurance premiums, i can't believe the govt. haven't taken action on this already, people paying less for insurance, would mean loads more disposable income in the economy, not to mention the huge number of lives that could be saved.

Litcagral

Mr_Roger_Bongos wrote:

The U.K. has an advanced driving test, teaching high speed breaking, accident avoidance, and reading traffic patterns and spotting possible accidents, but its not cumpulsoryQUOTE]


Advanced driving tests are also available in Ireland.