Question

#15

I tries looking around on the internet but i am still unsure about something. This is where I need you guys to help!!!

What is the correct term for a catholic who does not believe in the authority of the Papacy and does not agree with some of the churches moral teachings (eg, stance on homosexuality)?
The closest term I could find is an 'indepent catholic' on wikipedia.org but im still unsure about this. Can anyone help???
Thanks:D

pbsuxok1znja4r

I wish I knew, man, I wish I knew. If they don't come up with a term for us renegade catholics soon, I'm gonna have to start going to my local church of Ireland instead! (Such is my need for self-categorisation).

But yeah, off the top of my head, the closest term for that would be protestant, lol. I agree with you, though, on those issues.

samb

A La Carte Catholics, maybe.

#15

A La Carte Catholic has an almost derogatory tone to it, i think.
Most of my beliefs are Catholic and not Protestant. Like I said, I mainly disagree with the legitimacy of the Papacy and some of the Churches moral teachings.


This is what i found on wikipedia:

the term Independent Catholic carries a wide array of meanings to different people. Some use the term to indicate those who are more progressive in social and moral teachings (supporting homosexual marriage, abortion, and birth control, for example) while others use it as a more accurate catch-all term for anyone claiming to be Catholic who either is not in communion with the Roman Pontiff or dissents from Roman Catholic church teachings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Catholic

Sapien

#15 wrote:

I tries looking around on the internet but i am still unsure about something. This is where I need you guys to help!!!

What is the correct term for a catholic who does not believe in the authority of the Papacy and does not agree with some of the churches moral teachings (eg, stance on homosexuality)?
The closest term I could find is an 'indepent catholic' on wikipedia.org but im still unsure about this. Can anyone help???
Thanks:D

Heretic.

Dades

#15 wrote:

A La Carte Catholic has an almost derogatory tone to it, i think.

Doesn't that depend on whose using the name?

You sound to me like a Liberal Catholic.

Note the sixth suggestion in the online thesaurus definitions of "liberal", which I thought was odd.
http://thesaurus.reference.com/search?q=liberal

Sapien

The Atheist wrote:

Doesn't that depend on whose using the name?

You sound to me like a Liberal Catholic.

Note the sixth suggestion in the online thesaurus definitions of "liberal", which I thought was odd.
http://thesaurus.reference.com/search?q=liberal

The word catholic, aside from its unfortunate associations with a rampantly out-of-control late Roman cult, simply means "universal".

bmoferrall

#15 wrote:

What is the correct term for a catholic who does not believe in the authority of the Papacy and does not agree with some of the churches moral teachings

Sapien wrote:

Heretic

Heretic indeed.

The powers that be have duly apportioned appropriate punishment for your grevious transgressions:

the Fourth Lateran Council (1215) wrote:

... Convicted heretics shall be handed over for due
punishment to their secular superiors, or the latter's
agents. If they are clerks, they shall first be degraded.
The goods of the laymen thus convicted shall be confiscated;
those of the clergy shall be applied to the churches from
which they drew their stipends. ... If a temporal Lord
neglects to fulfil the demand of the Church that he shall
purge his land of this contamination of heresy, he shall be
excommunicated by the metropolitan and other bishops of the
province. If he fails to make amends within a year, it shall
be reported to the Supreme Pontiff, who shall pronounce his
vassals absolved from fealty to him and offer his land to
Catholics. The latter shall exterminate the heretics,
possess the land without dispu te and preserve it in the true
faith.... Catholics who assume the cross and devote
themselves to the extermination of heretics shall enjoy the
same indulgence and privilege as those who go to the Holy
Land....

A summons will be issued in due course.
Now, for heaven's sake, run for your life!

robindch

> The word catholic, aside from its unfortunate associations with a
> rampantly out-of-control late Roman cult, simply means "universal".

If you're an anglican, you've to spell it 'catholick', as in this bit from the creed:

I believe in the Holy Ghost; The holy Catholick Church; The Communion of saints;

...lest you seem to be publicly declaring that you've leapt into bed with the papists and worthy of a dose of 'due punishment'!

BrianCalgary

Bad news for you 15: You are officially a Protestant. (One who protests the teachings and authority of the Roman Catholic church).

In all seriousness though, Catholics have been told that to attend another church is evil. (I paraphrase) Many Catholics that find themselves in your position will stop going to church altogether for fear of going elsewhere. I would encourage you to find a church that has places of study, teaching and the opportunity to get answers for your questions. I think the problem with some denominations is they have the attitude of "sit, listen and do as your told". As opposed to sit, listen then ask questions to clarify your thoughts.

UU

Well, you could always make up your own term! In Northern Ireland a group of Presbyterians decided to state: "Our Church refuses to impose compulsory subscription to any man-made creeds in respect of a person's Christian faith. Our ethos is 'faith guided by reason and conscience' and we advocate liberal and tolerant Christianity." So essentially they broke away from the Presbyterian Church but still wanted to be Presbyterians so they called themselves the "Non-subscribing Presbyterian Church" as they don't subscribe to the Presbyterian higher powers. Actually they're quite similar to the Unitarian Church but with a more Christian ethos.

If I were a Catholic who didn't want to remain in a connection with the Catholic Church and they're ethnic and moral views on homosexuality, etc., I'd call myself a "Non-Subscribing Catholic". My dad is one but he just calls himself "a free Catholic"!

Bad news for you 15: You are officially a Protestant. (One who protests the teachings and authority of the Roman Catholic church).

No a #15 is a heretic which isn't bad if you're led to believe. A heretic is "somebody who holds opinions contrary to orthodox opinions". #15 would only be a Protestsant if he/she declared that he/she is one and became a member of a Protestant congregation. Sure the Orthodox Christian Churches are Christian but are neither Catholic nor Protestant but themselves.

Dades

So hang on, is #15 part of The People's Front of Judea or The Judean People's Front?

I hope he's not part of the Popular People's Front (splitters!).

BrianCalgary

I hope none of them. It's the People's Judean Front that has the truth.:) :eek:

#15

What am I???!!!

Confused, probably.:D

I don't think i'm Protestant- don't they reject many other catholic teachings (eg about saints and the worship of symbols)??

Sapien

#15 wrote:

What am I???!!!

Confused, probably.:D

I don't think i'm Protestant- don't they reject many other catholic teachings (eg about saints and the worship of symbols)??

You are a her-eh-tic. Damned and perfidious. Cut your losses and become a hedonistic, atheistic heathen. Really, go on. It's great. What's stopping you?

wolfsbane

Sapien said:

You are a her-eh-tic. Damned and perfidious. Cut your losses and become a hedonistic, atheistic heathen. Really, go on. It's great. What's stopping you?

Yes, #15, I'm afraid Sapien is right. You are either a real Roman Catholic or you are not one at all - according to that church's official teaching. As I recall, the Catechism of the Catholic Church says that any Catholic who repudiates any dogma of the church has automatically excommunicated themselves. Someone will correct me if my memory has failed, but I'm pretty sure.

So, you are on your own, my friend! Rethink, apologise and rejoin; or take Sapien's advice and burn your bra/boxers; or read the New Testament again and discover what authentic Christianity is really like. You might like it even less than the version you have rejected; or you might find it the answer to your deepest need. Happy hunting!

archdukefranz

#15 wrote:

I tries looking around on the internet but i am still unsure about something. This is where I need you guys to help!!!

What is the correct term for a catholic who does not believe in the authority of the Papacy and does not agree with some of the churches moral teachings (eg, stance on homosexuality)?
The closest term I could find is an 'indepent catholic' on wikipedia.org but im still unsure about this. Can anyone help???
Thanks:D

Start by looking up what the Roman Catholic Church define as an RC then if you find that you fit in with their definition then you are a Catholic, not saying that you can't if you don't but in fairness you're just kidding yourself...
If you do then your a catholic, not much more complicated than that.
If you don't then you may want to look up the definition of Christian.

Asiaprod

The Atheist wrote:

So hang on, is #15 part of The People's Front of Judea or The Judean People's Front?

I hope he's not part of the Popular People's Front (splitters!).

No, you still are suffering from that hang over, he/she is a member of the people's front for a popular Judea, dont ya know

archdukefranz

Asiaprod wrote:

No, you still are suffering from that hang over, he/she is a member of the people's front for a popular Judea, dont ya know

SPLITTER

arctic lemur

robindch wrote:

> The word catholic, aside from its unfortunate associations with a
> rampantly out-of-control late Roman cult, simply means "universal".

If you're an anglican, you've to spell it 'catholick', as in this bit from the creed:
...lest you seem to be publicly declaring that you've leapt into bed with the papists and worthy of a dose of 'due punishment'!

No i'm church of Ireland and 'catholic' with a small 'c' is used in the creed. catholic with a small 'c' means universal. Catholic with a big 'C' refers to a member of the Roman Catholic Church. Have degree in theology and its one of the few bits i remember!

Excelsior

I was baptised, communed and confirmed in the Roman Catholic Church but am now part of the Presbyterian Church in Ireland (which technically shouldn't be called Protestant).

If I am asked I say that I am simply a Christian. If I am pushed I say that I am catholic (in the sense of believing in the universal church to which all Christians regardless of denomination are a member), reformed (like Calvin) and generously orthodox (meaning I think the followers of Jesus and not JWs probably had the best idea of what Jesus taught but I hold a position of skepticism about the validity of my own beliefs).

These conversations about whether you are heretical or Protestant or liberal Catholic all seem to be beside the point. Your Roman Catholic identity finds its source in Jesus. Call yourself a Christian.

BrianCalgary

Excelsior wrote:

I was baptised, communed and confirmed in the Roman Catholic Church but am now part of the Presbyterian Church in Ireland (which technically shouldn't be called Protestant).

If I am asked I say that I am simply a Christian. If I am pushed I say that I am catholic (in the sense of believing in the universal church to which all Christians regardless of denomination are a member), reformed (like Calvin) and generously orthodox (meaning I think the followers of Jesus and not JWs probably had the best idea of what Jesus taught but I hold a position of skepticism about the validity of my own beliefs).

These conversations about whether you are heretical or Protestant or liberal Catholic all seem to be beside the point. Your Roman Catholic identity finds its source in Jesus. Call yourself a Christian.

To add to this idea. I was born and raised Anglican (Church of England), which historically is protestant. I now find my identity in Christ, not in any denomination. I am part of God's universal church. Where is your identity located? If it is with Christ you are a Christian. I encourage you to go to a Bible believing church, where your questions will be answered.

staple

Please forgive a semi-informed post, but don't high church Anglicans believe many of the same things as Roman Catholics (transubstantiation, reverence for saints, Virgin Mary etc.) without belief in authority of pope? Again, I may be talking through my hat, but I think in England, high church Anglicans are identical with anglo-catholics (diff. from Roman Catholics).
All that said, Christian would seem to be the best term for you, as was previously suggested.

BrianCalgary

staple wrote:

Please forgive a semi-informed post, but don't high church Anglicans believe many of the same things as Roman Catholics (transubstantiation, reverence for saints, Virgin Mary etc.) without belief in authority of pope? Again, I may be talking through my hat, but I think in England, high church Anglicans are identical with anglo-catholics (diff. from Roman Catholics).
All that said, Christian would seem to be the best term for you, as was previously suggested.

I'm not sure where high Anglican fits with transubstantiation, raised in the Anglican church I knew that the Holy Spirit was present within the host.

The prayers are very similar, the first time I went to mass I could almost do it by memory. Anglicans do leave out the 'ask Mary, ever virgin and all the angels and saints to pray for me' bit. So Anglicans do not have the saints and reverence for Mary parts.

You're dead on the with papal authority.

iceworm

#15 wrote:

I tries looking around on the internet but i am still unsure about something. This is where I need you guys to help!!!

What is the correct term for a catholic who does not believe in the authority of the Papacy and does not agree with some of the churches moral teachings (eg, stance on homosexuality)?
The closest term I could find is an 'indepent catholic' on wikipedia.org but im still unsure about this. Can anyone help???
Thanks:D

i think you'd call the rejection of the authority of papacy - protestant.
yeah definitely protestant.

UU

Sure before the Reformation occured the modern day "Roman Catholic Church" was known simply as the "Christian Church" anyway. Although, I'm Unitarian which came from Christianity but isn't essentially that anymore. It is in the same group as Christadelphians and Jehovah's Witnesses - Monarchianism.

"An Untied Catholic" may be a suitable phrase! Lol

Cantab.

UU wrote:

Sure before the Reformation occured the modern day "Roman Catholic Church" was known simply as the "Christian Church" anyway.

staple

BrianCalgary wrote:

I'm not sure where high Anglican fits with transubstantiation, raised in the Anglican church I knew that the Holy Spirit was present within the host.

The prayers are very similar, the first time I went to mass I could almost do it by memory. Anglicans do leave out the 'ask Mary, ever virgin and all the angels and saints to pray for me' bit. So Anglicans do not have the saints and reverence for Mary parts.
.

I'd be interested to know more about how close to being RC an Anglican can be. I read on Wikipedia that some Anglo-catholics consider themselves within the CofE but believe in transubstantiation and the sacrament of confession etc. Also, I know some CofE people say the rosary and have statues of Mary in churches, which suggests some level of reverence, and at least some of their churches mark saints' feast days.
If #15 wants to belong to a church, wants many of the features of a Catholic, but doesn't believe in the authority of the Pope then I wonder if he would be at home in some Anglican community? My understanding of Roman Catholicism is that you can't in good faith stay in the church and go to communion while you are in a state of sin (ie doing something you think is okay but is a sin in the Church's eyes).
At the same time, if he doesn't want to belong to a church, then I don't suppose it matters what he calls himself.