Honouring the Ego

mysteria

Just checked your site, I was invited to join the "I" group you mention in 1981, joined out of curiosity in '83. P.S. I'm NOT a spiritualist, but I am a multi-tasking Scorpion.

scorptech

mysteria wrote:

Just checked your site, I was invited to join the "I" group you mention in 1981, joined out of curiosity in '83. P.S. I'm NOT a spiritualist, but I am a multi-tasking Scorpion.

Than you can understand why I, amongst others are trying to promote spiritualism in it's true form. Unfortunately there are a lot of mediums who do not have a clue about the bigger picture and things planned for the future.

I have also travelled the world in a professional capacity and talked to a number of people from all walks of life about this, so this is why my focus is not just on the physical world but on the spiritual. There is a lot of healing required, but you probably know this all ready based on your experience and teachings.

mysteria

Care to elaborate on "true form" for me? I'm always fascinated by others points of view.Thanks Scorptech!

scorptech

mysteria wrote:

Care to elaborate on "true form" for me? I'm always fascinated by others points of view.Thanks Scorptech!

There is not enough space to go into detail, but let's look at a couple of things. First of all, we have the 7 principals of spiritualism. Add "do onto others as you would like done onto you", and you have a pretty good guide to live by.

Fortunately I was told about spiritual ego, jealousy and snobbery when I first joined the circle, which, as far as I'm concerned ,has helped me understand why this happens, it has made me determined to stay grounded.

Yes, in life generally, you met people like this, but for some reason, I assumed (wrongly) that this might not be as width spread in spiritualism. I was fortunate to be in a circle in the UK that everyone thought the same about staying "true" to these principals.

How would you like to met up in the new year to discuss things further and go into more detail? I,m currently doing some work with the new metaphysical centre in Dublin.

mysteria

Sounds good! pm me and we'll sort something out. Blessings,S

mysteria

"remember that we are only used as a communication device by spirit and that what is given can also be taken away.[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry but I can't agree with that at all and consider it a psychologically very damaging concept. "We are only used as a communication device by spirit???". Could you elaborate please in case I'm misunderstanding what you're saying? You did say you're a psychologist, right?

scorptech

mysteria wrote:

"remember that we are only used as a communication device by spirit and that what is given can also be taken away.

I'm sorry but I can't agree with that at all and consider it a psychologically very damaging concept. "We are only used as a communication device by spirit???". Could you elaborate please in case I'm misunderstanding what you're saying? You did say you're a psychologist, right?[/QUOTE]

Sometimes people forget why they are involved in spiritualism in the first place i.e. the ego takes over. Ego being a mixture of arrogance and ignorance, so this can affect people in different ways. What happened to an x-circle member was the loss of his ability to communicate with spirit for a few months. Now we could analyse this from a scientific point of view and say that he had emotional problems etc, but the feedback from spirit was that lessons had to be learned.

No I never said that I was a "Psychologist" i.e. degree in hand, however, I have done training in psychology, studied and been interested in it since 1986 and taught social psychology/life training skills as part of a curriculum in a training college in the UK along with a few other relevant courses.

PS. did you get my pm?

solas

scorptech wrote:

Ego being a mixture of arrogance and ignorance,

Thats a very "spiritualistic" approach to the ego, where the ego is considered a bad thing. The ego, is the personality self, the earthly persona, that which thinks feels reacts etc.. The ego is not something to be pushed aside it really needs to be understood as a part of who we are and what makes us whole. The concept of anam cara, if I'm not mistaken is that of the souls friend. Its a nice way to think of part of you which "walks this earth" as it does so in tandem with or as part of a soul journey.

when the ego takes over

is more like an imbalance between the two.

What happened to an x-circle member was the loss of his ability to communicate with spirit for a few months. Now we could analyse this from a scientific point of view and say that he had emotional problems etc, but the feedback from spirit was that lessons had to be learned.

this sounds like the kind of david icke stuff which many people find repulsive.
If there is an imbalance there can be a variety of reasons as to the cause, inevitably some spiritualist will provide us with such eternal wisdom as "there is a lesson to be learned".

to quote the Budda:I do not believe in a fate that falls on people however they act; but I do believe in a fate that falls on them unless they act.'

scorptech

solas wrote:

Thats a very "spiritualistic" approach to the ego, where the ego is considered a bad thing.

What is an ego? Dictionary definition: an inflated feeling of pride in your superiority to others.

Now as far as I'm concerned, you can have the biggest ego in the world, the difference is whether you blatantly flaunt this in front of people making them feel inferior. As they say, "self praise is no praise at all". Praise is best heard from people other than yourself. Check out Dale Carnegie's "how to win friends and influence people". Naff title, good book.

solas wrote:

this sounds like the kind of david icke stuff which many people find repulsive. If there is an imbalance there can be a variety of reasons as to the cause, inevitably some spiritualist will provide us with such eternal wisdom as "there is a lesson to be learned".

to quote the Budda:I do not believe in a fate that falls on people however they act; but I do believe in a fate that falls on them unless they act.'

As part of my journey in understanding the "universe", Icke has asked questions that people cannot answer i.e. How was Stonehenge built? How did the aztec's lift 400 ton blocks and put them side by side? and a host of other questions.

I also believe in karma, universal law. We all know the saying "what goes around comes around", "like attracts like", "live by the sword, die by the sword" etc etc.

"The more I know, the more I realise that I don't know" - Albert Einstein

solas

scorptech wrote:

What is an ego? Dictionary definition: an inflated feeling of pride in your superiority to others.

we have different dictionary's
from dictionary.com

1.# The self, especially as distinct from the world and other selves.
2.# In psychoanalysis, the division of the psyche that is conscious, most immediately controls thought and behavior, and is most in touch with external reality.
3.# a. An exaggerated sense of self-importance; conceit.
b. Appropriate pride in oneself; self-esteem.

In psychoanalytic theory, the division of the psyche that is conscious, most immediately controls thought and behavior, and mediates between the person and external reality.

Main Entry: ego
Pronunciation: 'E-(")gO also 'eg-(")O
Function: noun
Inflected Form: plural egos
1 : the self especially as contrasted with another self or the world
2 : the one of the three divisions of the psyche in psychoanalytic theory that serves as the organized conscious mediator between the person and reality especially by functioning both in the perception of and adaptation to reality —compare ID, SUPEREGO

Now as far as I'm concerned, you can have the biggest ego in the world, the difference is whether you blatantly flaunt this in front of people making them feel inferior. As they say, "self praise is no praise at all". Praise is best heard from people other than yourself. Check out Dale Carnegie's "how to win friends and influence people". Naff title, good book.

There is a difference between the ego and egotism.

As part of my journey in understanding the "universe", Icke has asked questions that people cannot answer i.e. How was Stonehenge built? How did the aztec's lift 400 ton blocks and put them side by side? and a host of other questions.

Those questions have been answered, archeological and historical experts have recreated these events in an effort to understand how they were built. Google it and i'm sure you'll find some useful information.

stevenmu

solas wrote:

Thats a very "spiritualistic" approach to the ego, where the ego is considered a bad thing. The ego, is the personality self, the earthly persona, that which thinks feels reacts etc.. The ego is not something to be pushed aside it really needs to be understood as a part of who we are and what makes us whole. The concept of anam cara, if I'm not mistaken is that of the souls friend. Its a nice way to think of part of you which "walks this earth" as it does so in tandem with or as part of a soul journey.

I was under the impression that it's actually your definition of 'ego' that was the "spiritualistic" approach. It seems to fairly common throughout spirituality that this 'ego', our sense of physical self, needs to be controlled, or pushed aside so that we can think with a clear mind and truly understand the world/universe around us.

In particular the way dictionary.com defined it

2.# In psychoanalysis, the division of the psyche that is conscious, most immediately controls thought and behavior, and is most in touch with external reality.

would suggest that the pushing aside of ego equates with clearing the concious mind to allow the sub-concious through.

This seems, to me at least, to be the basic principle behind meditation, and probably a common factor of the various rituals of different religions.




(btw, I can't think of a good thread title either, mainly because I'm not sure exactly what's being discussed, I just kind of honed in the ego part)

solas

steve wrote:

]I was under the impression that it's actually your definition of 'ego' that was the "spiritualistic" approach. It seems to fairly common throughout spirituality that this 'ego', our sense of physical self, needs to be controlled, or pushed aside so that we can think with a clear mind and truly understand the world/universe around us.

thats not my definition of the ego. I defined it as the physical self, not something to be pushed aside but something which should be recognised, nourished and appreciated. I put it forward as a "spiritual" approach, no less a psychological approach and definition of the self. Its fairly common though in "spiritualism" or "spiritualistic" circles to reduce it to something which should be avoided, pushed aside and controlled.

would suggest that the pushing aside of ego equates with clearing the concious mind to allow the sub-concious through.

which is how spiritualists perceive it. I don't believe the ego needs to be pushed aside and controlled, its an integral part of who we are and all subconscious thought is filtered through it, nourishing and balancing would be a more "spiritual" attitude, where it's honoured. Anam Cara

steve wrote:

btw, I can't think of a good thread title either, mainly because I'm not sure exactly what's being discussed, I just kind of honed in the ego part

I read this wrong and thought you said "honouring the ego". Sounds like a good title to me.

Nevyn

But ego has it's place.
I really don't have time for a lot of what seems to me about ridding oneslef completely of ones ego.
Yes you need to know and see that part of yourself and set it aside when it gets in the way but is important that you can stand and say I am me not you.
I am a seperate distinct person and what I am and what I can do and the choices I make are mine.
Be it to other people you meet on your path, spirist, teachers and even your parents.

solas

thead wrote:

But ego has it's place.

I agree, I was trying to edit my last post but I keep logging out.
People are so afraid of the ego, because we are taught to deny it as if it were a bad thing. I had the same problem accepting the ego at first, then I met a very wise Japanese healer who taught me that the ego is an aspect that needs to be nourished and honoured as much as any part of us, and even occasionally stroked if it really needs it!

That doesn't mean we are conceited, but we are entitled to have respect ourselves. If we can't give ourselves that, then it would be difficult to offer it to others.

stevenmu

lol, now I'm a bit confused When I first came across the whole "let go of your ego" perspective it seemed wrong and unnatural, but the more I thought about it, the more I could understand what an obstacle it could be. Reading what both of you are saying now, is making me lean back towards the "ego is good and should be embraced" side of thought, but on the other hand that's one of the characteristics of ego, it sucks you in and makes you think it's important, which is why it should be let go of

I guess maybe it comes down to the nature of your beliefs, if you believe that your own spirit is a completely seperate entity to other spirits, then ego is something to be embraced, but if you believe there to be a singular or interconnected spirit which we're all part of then ego is something to be disregarded. That's a distinction I'm not willing to make yet so maybe I should just stay undecided on the matter of ego too.

Btw, my limited understanding of the concept of letting go of ego (or pushing it aside or whatever way you want to phrase it), is that you do have to kind of embrace it to understand it, to then be able to disregard it when needed. I don't think you're expected to live completely without ego, just to be able to recognise what thoughts are driven by it and what effects it has on you, so that you can then operate without it when appropriate. Hopefully Dagon is still reading here, iirc he was into Vipassanna which is strongly in favour of controlling the ego, and probably has a much better perspective on it than I do.

solas wrote:

thats not my definition of the ego. I defined it as the physical self, not something to be pushed aside but something which should be recognised, nourished and appreciated.

You're definition of ego and your opinion on what to do with it are 2 seperate things

solas

steve wrote:

is that you do have to kind of embrace it to understand it, to then be able to disregard it when needed.

ultimately this is what happens when you embrace your ego, it no longer becomes an obstacle and works in tandem with your more spiritual self.

the other hand that's one of the characteristics of ego, it sucks you in and makes you think it's important, which is why it should be let go of

and which part of you is giving you that information?

You're definition of ego and your opinion on what to do with it are 2 seperate things

I was responding to your interpretation of what you think I think the ego is.

solas wrote:

The ego, is the personality self, the earthly persona, that which thinks feels reacts etc..

steve wrote:

I was under the impression that it's actually your definition of 'ego' that was the "spiritualistic" approach.

We've already discussed the difference between the terms spiritualist and spirituality. Spiritualists do promote the concept you portray here

It seems to fairly common throughout spirituality that this 'ego', our sense of physical self, needs to be controlled, or pushed aside so that we can think with a clear mind and truly understand the world/universe around us.

but its not necessarily a "spiritual" approach.
/me tenderly embraces me ego

stevenmu

solas wrote:

I was responding to your interpretation of what you think I think the ego is.

Well I think you're definition of ego is

solas wrote:

1.# The self, especially as distinct from the world and other selves.
2.# In psychoanalysis, the division of the psyche that is conscious, most immediately controls thought and behavior, and is most in touch with external reality.

and as far as I'm aware this is what's generally meant by 'ego' in spiritual circles. In spiritualistic terms, Scorptech's definition (and #3 in your dictionary.com reference) would be an extension or by-product of this. This is my understanding of what people mean by 'ego' in a spiritual context, and I agree with them, and I think this is agreeing with your definition. But I think that your opinion of what to do with said 'ego'

solas wrote:

not something to be pushed aside but something which should be recognised, nourished and appreciated

is seperate from the definition of what it is.

edit:

solas wrote:

We've already discussed the difference between the terms spiritualist and spirituality. Spiritualists do promote the concept you portray here

Yeah, I think I've got them a bit mixed up here (again).

solas

have you been drinking because your confusing me.

stevenmu

yes, but I didn't think it was very much, maybe I'll just stop posting and try and make more sense in the morning

solas

y'know on the main page this thread comes up as "I can't think of an apt tit".

stevenmu

:v:


Title changed, if anyone has a better one let me know.

solas

:v:

well, when I moved the thread I pm'd both scorptech and mysteria to let them know and ask if they wanted to title it. As mysteria's post is first in the thread she has "teh power" to edit and change it.

stevenmu

fair enough, I'll try and carry on the conversation so, if it comes out as drunken gibberish, I'll edit it out tomorrow.

solas wrote:

steve wrote:

on the other hand that's one of the characteristics of ego, it sucks you in and makes you think it's important, which is why it should be let go of

and which part of you is giving you that information?

My rational sense of what ego is. If ego is the sense of self, then the sense of preservation of self, and especially the sense of importance of self is an integral part of it. Ego is what drives us to improve ourselves and to be the best we can be, which is obviously a good thing, but I think that inherent in that is the need to be better than others. This in turn can lead to the need to become 'the best', to be able to fly around the sky, walk on water, predict next weeks lotto numbers and shoot fireballs out your ar$e. It can also lead to the need to put others down, to make yourself feel better than them, it almost like a wise man once said "Fear is the path to the Dark Side. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.". I realise this is crossing the path from our definition of 'ego' into 'egotistical', but it could be said that ego inevitably leads to egotism.

When you say

solas wrote:

when you embrace your ego, it no longer becomes an obstacle and works in tandem with your more spiritual self.

that to me implies a rational understanding of your own ego which allows you to recognise, account for and disregard the egotistical impulses that go hand in hand with ego, altough I may be totally misunderstanding what you meant

solas

steven wrote:

that to me implies a rational understanding of your own ego which allows you to recognise, account for and disregard the egotistical impulses that go hand in hand with ego, altough I may be totally misunderstanding what you meant

yea, I guess so.
I mentioned earlier about the teachings of a particular healer I met, he's a really nice guy and I don't have time for guru's but I could listen to him talk all day. I remember someone asking him the same question about ego, so I had a look and found a transcript of the conversation. He says it better than I can.

Q:How can I further develop my healing abilities. How can I rid myself of ego?

A: Do I need to put up my umbrella?

Q:No lol.

A:Please, don't kill your ego! Nice, ego....

Q:Really? He's bossy.

A:Absolutely. If you try to get rid of your ego it will definitely put up a stink. So, instead, become bigger than your ego. Give it lots of space. When you are able to say hello to anything or anyone, you start giving it space and you become senior to it.

Q:I just don't want to be fooled.

A:When you are afraid of someone or something, even the ego, then, you try to get rid of them. Don't be afraid. Have fun with it. Tickling the ego works wonders!

Q:hmmmm........

A:Get it to lighten up for heaven's sake!

Q:k..

A:Or, you can lighten up and say to it, 'It's so much nicer up here!'


i't's slightly edited but you get my drift.

stevenmu

Perfectly said, I can see why you'd like someone who gives advice like that.

My ego thanks you.

scorptech

Stevenmu wrote:

My rational sense of what ego is. If ego is the sense of self, then the sense of preservation of self, and especially the sense of importance of self is an integral part of it. Ego is what drives us to improve ourselves and to be the best we can be, which is obviously a good thing, but I think that inherent in that is the need to be better than others. This in turn can lead to the need to become 'the best', to be able to fly around the sky, walk on water, predict next weeks lotto numbers and shoot fireballs out your ar$e. It can also lead to the need to put others down, to make yourself feel better than them, it almost like a wise man once said "Fear is the path to the Dark Side. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.". I realise this is crossing the path from our definition of 'ego' into 'egotistical', but it could be said that ego inevitably leads to egotism.

Just adding my 2 cents worth!!

I agree with Solas and Stevenmu regarding the fact that its an integral part of who we are and all subconscious thought is filtered through it, nourished and balanced.

You can have the biggest ego in the world, however, if you then start treating people like second class citizens because of your ego, than this is were it goes beyond the positive, "Do unto others as you would like done unto you" etc.

This is the point I'm trying to make.

Hope you all had a great Christmas and New Year!!