Problem with a tv I purchased...

jellycopter

A couple of months ago, I bought a TV from a well known chain. I'm not too much up on the technical side of televisions, but I knew that to get the most out of the Xbox 360 console, I'd need a "High Definition" TV.

So I went into the store and asked about a hi-def tv. After much chatting about hi-def, the xbox 360 and the fact that SKY will be broadcasting in hi-def in the new year, I bought myself a nice new (expensive) tv. I bought it on one of those installment plans and the whole thing is gonna be costing me well over a grand. While waiting for a 360, I was using the tv as a computer monitor. Very happy so far.

When I finally managed to get my hands on the new xbox, I realised they my tv isn't "Hi-def" after all! I don't have the right ports on the back of the tv to plug in all the cables etc. I looked up my tvs serial number and after doing some research on the net, sure enough it isn't hi-def at all. The manufacturers website doesn't say it's hi-def, however the retailers website says it is.

I've still got my receipt (no box, manual probably binned at this point too). Does this sound like a cut and dried case? I'm just worried that because I didn't realise I had any issues until about 2 months later... well, am I gonna have a tough time getting them to exchange it or whatever?

bounty

why didnt you check the web site before buying?

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

BrianD

mmmm...bit of a tough one that. A few months is a bit long to realise that mistake (I know it something that you are not that up to date with). They will argue that you should have done your purchasing research before hand but clearly the sales guy led you up the garden path. You could send somebody in again to enquire about hi-def and see waht they say. Apparently there are 18 different HDTV formats worldwide. What he probably sold you was a set that allows progressive scan from your DVD or XBox.

I'd gather your evidence and write to them. Probably your only hope at this point.

A Dub in Glasgo

If the salesperson recommended the TV based on the information that you provided ie it has to be compatible with the Xbox 360, you can claim that the TV is not fit for purpose. Unfortunately, it will be your word against theirs unless you managed to record the conversation. If the chain is part of the Dixons group, you have very little chance of getting anything from them.

Never believe anything that a salesperson tells you unless you can get it in writing.

Guy:Incognito

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

If the salesperson recommended the TV based on the information that you provided ie it has to be compatible with the Xbox 360, you can claim that the TV is not fit for purpose. Unfortunately, it will be your word against theirs unless you managed to record the conversation. If the chain is part of the Dixons group, you have very little chance of getting anything from them..

Thing about the compatibility though. If they don't sell the xbox 360 in that shop they cant really be held responsible for recommending a compatible set unless they know or you have explained EXACTLY what connections it has.

A Dub in Glasgo

It is really irrelevant if they do or do not sell the Xbox 360. If person A goes into a shop and asks for a TV that is compatible with the Xbox 360 and the shop recommends one and sells it, it is the shops responsibility for the fitness for purpose for the sale. If the shop is not sure, they should be stating 'We cannot recommend one because we do not know the connections'. If the shop cannot comply with the request, they should be stating 'We cannot sell you a TV that meets your requirements as we do not stock one'.

What I understood from the OP was the fact that he asked for a TV that should meet certain requirements, the shop recommended one therefore it should be fit for purpose with respect to the customers requirement. The problem the OP has is the time delay and it will be deemed that he accepted the TV therefore it will be very difficult to argue that they sold him the wrong TV.

muffler

I think you have a good point to put to them and look for either a refund or exchange.

You paid for a particular product with a certain spec. that was represented to you by the shop/salesperson/ad. as being the product you required. If its still under guarantee I would take it back.

Look at it another way. If you bought a car that was supposed to have air bags Should you go out and crash it immediately to make sure the air bags are on board or just wait till you have to make use of them

BrianD

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

If the salesperson recommended the TV based on the information that you provided ie it has to be compatible with the Xbox 360, you can claim that the TV is not fit for purpose. Unfortunately, it will be your word against theirs unless you managed to record the conversation. If the chain is part of the Dixons group, you have very little chance of getting anything from them.

Never believe anything that a salesperson tells you unless you can get it in writing.

I don't think you could claim this. He was buying a TV and was sold a TV. If he has specialist requirements then it is beholden on him to a) do his home work and b) state categorically that this is the only purpose the set will be used for. however, it seems that the salesmanship was sloppy.

What model did you buy again and what are using to connect the Xbox to it?

Shortstack

BrianD wrote:

I don't think you could claim this. He was buying a TV and was sold a TV. If he has specialist requirements then it is beholden on him to a) do his home work and b) state categorically that this is the only purpose the set will be used for.

I would not imagine that this is the case. I am not up as much on Irish consumer law but I used to be a manager for the much maligned Dixons group for 10 years in the UK. If you asked for it to be Hi definition and it is not then you have been a victim of 'misrepresentation'. Two months is in no way too long to go back and ask for an exchange in a case like this especially when the website states that it is something it is not. If it is a Dixons Group store then I would just get straight on to the Customer service centre who will speak to the store manager on your behalf.

LordSutch

Are you sure that your New TV is not Xbox compatable? I dont own an Xbox myself, but a friend of mine has a six year old Sony 32" TV and he has his XBox plugged into that successfully! presumably you have several scart connections + USB + four phono + S-Video connections)?
What Make and Model No do you have?

BrianD

There is a specific cable connection for Xbox 360 -> HD TV set. If you are using a scart you may as well use your existing set for all the difference it makes.

Shortstack - the problem is that customers often use tech terms incorrectly and don't know what they want. The salesperson has to see through this and try and work his or her actual requirements. The set supplied may have met the requirements that were stated on the day.

If the OP wanted to use his Xbox and can't connect to his set surely he would have discovered this sooner than 2 mths?

jellycopter

OK, here's the full (fuller) story.

I originally went into the store and asked about a 42" plasma that was in the window. I was happy with the price and specs etc. and so went off and did a bit of research regarding the Xbox 360. When I realised that I would need a hi-def tv to get the best picture and found out about the "HD Ready" stickers being on suitable tvs etc. I rang back the store and got talking to the same sales assistant. When I asked if the model I had been looking at was HD Ready, he went off to have a look, came back and said "No, sorry. But we do have other models in the store that are. Why not pop in later?" So that's what I did.

The following day I got talking to the same guy again and he showed me some "HD Ready" Tvs. Or so I thought. While I'm happy to accept the fact I should have researched further myself and explored what sort of ports on the back of the set would make it HD Ready, at the time I (wrongly) felt comfortable with the fact that this friendly chap knew his stuff. We spoke at lengths about the Xbox 360, SKY broadcasting in Hi-def in the new year and such like. After some deliberating, I went for one particular model.

I wrongly assumed that a hi-def connection went through some sorta scart device, so wasn't alarmed when I saw the back of the TV when I took it home.

To cut a long story short, this whole issue is about the difference between "High Definition" and "High Definition Ready" It turns out my set is hi-def, but not hi-def ready. To properly connect my 360 to the set, I'm going to need to purchase a vga lead (which cannot be found in any shops at the mo) and also an adapter for me to plug in the audio jacks.

I've since ordered the bits and bobs I need off the net and am now waiting patiently for them to arrive. I acknowledge the fact that I was a bit p*ssed off at the momend when I discovered I was unable to plug in the 360 and properly enjoy my new toy (not long after, I posted on here). I'm not going to bother going back to the store at this point, I'm happy to spend about 50 quid on the net to get the stuff I need, rather than go to the hassle of going back to the store. Still, I remember distinctly asking about HD Ready, and just got sold Hi-def instead.

So do those of you in the know reckon I would have a case had I decided to go back?

A Dub in Glasgo

What is the TV model and shop?

I very rarely believe anything that salespeople tell me especially with such an expensive purchase as a lot of non specialised shops have got only a basic understanding of the issues (in my experience)

http://www.hdready.org.uk/

I think you would find it difficult to prove that you asked for a HD Ready TV instead of a HD TV.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

jellycopter

Cheers for that link, dub. My set don't pop up there.

Here's a review of what I purchased. I got it in xtravision.

http://www.homecinemachoice.com/cgi-bin/displayreview.php?reviewid=5207

I'm not claiming to be an expert (so chill out dave! ), but all I'm saying is that surely this can't be "hi-def ready" which is what I wanted. Yeah, I can get the same result when I connect my 360 up via a vga lead, but if given the option of buying a device with all the ports to plug the hdtv jacks into (L and R audio and RGB video) I would have bought it!

I'm not exactly fuming or anything. Once my leads arrive, I'll be happily gaming away. Still, I'd hate to have been a parent whose kid got a 360 from Santy. When the scart is the only option you have, the pic looks pretty poor indeed.

A Dub in Glasgo

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

By the sounds of it, his TV is HD but not HD Ready. There is a difference and if he was asking to buy a HD Ready TV, that is the one that should have been recommended by the shop not just a HD one.

I assume the Xbox 360 pack contains the D Connector HD AV cable? If it does, you should just be able to connect the cable straight into the HD connector on the TV. Sounds as if there is no HD input on the TV therefore extra gubbins is required to connect a HD source to it.

This cable looks as if it might work

http://shop.gameplay.co.uk/webstore/productpage.asp?productcode=XT0041&title=xbox_360_vga_hd_av_cable

BrianD

jellycopter wrote:

OK, here's the full (fuller) story.

I originally went into the store and asked about a 42" plasma that was in the window. I was happy with the price and specs etc. and so went off and did a bit of research regarding the Xbox 360. When I realised that I would need a hi-def tv to get the best picture and found out about the "HD Ready" stickers being on suitable tvs etc. I rang back the store and got talking to the same sales assistant. When I asked if the model I had been looking at was HD Ready, he went off to have a look, came back and said "No, sorry. But we do have other models in the store that are. Why not pop in later?" So that's what I did.

The following day I got talking to the same guy again and he showed me some "HD Ready" Tvs. Or so I thought. While I'm happy to accept the fact I should have researched further myself and explored what sort of ports on the back of the set would make it HD Ready, at the time I (wrongly) felt comfortable with the fact that this friendly chap knew his stuff. We spoke at lengths about the Xbox 360, SKY broadcasting in Hi-def in the new year and such like. After some deliberating, I went for one particular model.

I wrongly assumed that a hi-def connection went through some sorta scart device, so wasn't alarmed when I saw the back of the TV when I took it home.

To cut a long story short, this whole issue is about the difference between "High Definition" and "High Definition Ready" It turns out my set is hi-def, but not hi-def ready. To properly connect my 360 to the set, I'm going to need to purchase a vga lead (which cannot be found in any shops at the mo) and also an adapter for me to plug in the audio jacks.

I've since ordered the bits and bobs I need off the net and am now waiting patiently for them to arrive. I acknowledge the fact that I was a bit p*ssed off at the momend when I discovered I was unable to plug in the 360 and properly enjoy my new toy (not long after, I posted on here). I'm not going to bother going back to the store at this point, I'm happy to spend about 50 quid on the net to get the stuff I need, rather than go to the hassle of going back to the store. Still, I remember distinctly asking about HD Ready, and just got sold Hi-def instead.

So do those of you in the know reckon I would have a case had I decided to go back?

I would think, if you have the time, that it would be worth a letter to the manager explaining your experience. I think many people are going to be confused with this HD lark - especially when there are 18 variations of the HD standard none of which have been universally accepted as yet. Microsoft Mediaplayer standard was to be the encoding of choice by Sky and now they've dropped it in favour of MPEG4. So you can see if you have Sky HD and own a Xbox 360 they will differ in standards. The average consumer is not going to understand the difference between 'Hd' and 'HD Ready'. I'm not sure if I do!

I am not a Xbox 360 owner but I understand from reading about it that you would need the VGA cable anyway to get the advantage of the HD capability of the console.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

jellycopter

hehe, no worries Dave!

Yeah Dub, I've bought a similar lead off ebay.

The lead you get with the 360 has a switch on it that lets you change from TV to HDTV. You get a scart connector too. So outta the box you can either plug y,w,r into a scart or l,r (audio), r, g and b into your HDTV.

On a side note, if anyone is considering getting a 360 I'd definately recommend it! They're gorgeous. Even when not running in hi-def!

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

jellycopter

What games you got there Dave? I've just got Project Gotham and Perfect Dark at the mo. Not usually into racing games, but Gotham is just so damned beautiful, it's a pleasure to play. Not gotten into PD much yet.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

LordSutch

Hey Jellycopter, we are still waiting for you to tell us what Make and model of TV you purchased, if you tell us, we might be able to help you a bit more with your compatability problem ...................?

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

RainyDay

If the problem can be resolved by additional cable(s), you could push the shop to provide the cables for you (though if you've already purchased these elsewhere, this may not be much use to you.

I have to say that you're crazy to purchase a 42" plasma on store credit. Store credit is horrendously expensive, probably more expensive sticking it on your credit card. I suppose the idea of deferring your purchase while saving until you can buy the article for cash is out of the question?

steviec

EICTA wrote:

In order to be awarded the label “HD ready” a display device has to cover the following requirements:

1. Display, display engine
* The minimum native resolution of the display (e.g. LCD, PDP) or display engine (e.g. DLP) is 720 physical lines in wide aspect ratio.
2. Video Interfaces
* The display device accepts HD input via:
o Analog YPbPr. “HD ready” displays support analog YPbPr as a HD input format to allow full compatibility with today's HD video sources in the market. Support of the YPbPr signal should be through common industry standard connectors directly on the HD ready display or through an adaptor easily accessible to the consumer; and:
* DVI or HDMI HD capable inputs accept the following HD video formats:
o 1280x720 @ 50 and 60Hz progressive scan (“720p”)
o 1920x1080 @ 50 and 60Hz interlaced (“1080i”)
* The DVI or HDMI input supports copy protection (HDCP)

The following technical references apply to the above descriptions:

DVI: DDWG, “DVI Visual Interface”, rev 1.0, Apr 2, 1999 as further qualified in EIA861B, “A DTV Profile for Uncompressed High Speed Digital Interfaces” May 2002, furthermore allowing both DVI-D and DVI-I connectors, requiring compliance to both 50 and 60Hz profiles, and requiring support for both 720p and 1080i video formats.

HDMI: HDMI Licensing, LLC, “High-Definition Multimedia Interface”, rev.1.1, May 20, 2004

HDCP: Intel, “High-Bandwidth Digital Content Protection System”, rev 1.1, June 9, 2003.

(NB: on DVI HDCP rev 1.0 will apply)

YPbPr: EIA770.3-A, March 2000, with the notice that the connectors required may be available only through an adaptor.

According to the official definition, the set must support both analog and digital signals, so if it just has a DVI port it isn't HD ready.

astrofool

He just needs to buy the xbox 360 vga cable (which also comes with a minijack/3.5mm adaptor for the audio).

The VGA cable should actually give a better quality picture than the composite cable that comes with the console.

jellycopter

I didn't go for a 42" plasma on store credit at the end of the day. I bought a 26" LCD on credit, as a "gift" to myself. I was expecting a good bit of cash to land in my lap before xmas (which it did), so I'm happy enough.

RainyDay

jellycopter wrote:

I didn't go for a 42" plasma on store credit at the end of the day. I bought a 26" LCD on credit, as a "gift" to myself. I was expecting a good bit of cash to land in my lap before xmas (which it did), so I'm happy enough.

Glad it worked out for you. Others planning the same approach should review T's & C's of the store credit agreement very carefully. Many have penalties which apply in case of early repayment.

MOH

There's a very clear and well-defined difference between "HD Ready" and "HD Compatible" . There are certain minimum criteria a TV must reach to be classified as HD Ready. A google should find the requirements.

If they sold you a TV stickered as "HD Ready" when it's not, I'd say you've got them cold. If the guy in the shop told you it's HD Ready and it isn't, and it's not marked as such, it's your word against his - not sure whether you'll get anywhere.

Not sure what the XBox connections are like, so can't help you there.

You've a cooling off preiod of 28 days, you're outside that now, so I don't think you can just bring the TV back.

From other forum posts I read when I was researching buying an LCD TV last year, many shops are full of salespeople who don't have a clue when it comes to HD and are either telling customers whatever they want to hear to sell them the TV, or just don't know what they're talking about and won't admit it. Sounds like you got one of those. You should probably go in and give him an earful, tell him you're going to raise a complaint even if you're not - might stop him doing the same thing to someone else.